• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI[W:32]

Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

hahahahahahahahaha wtf? Seriously delusional

No no, delusional is being shown facts and then carrying on in spite of those facts... And the fact is, you got schooled whether you like to admit it or not... But that's not the topic here...

I'll make another comment about what you say about dumb arguments, you call any point you disagree with dumb, so it's clearly to be taken with a grain of salt.


Maybe the part where it says that NSA said or insinuated that it didn't have a capability that, technologically, it can't collect without having. Like I'm sorry folks like you and the writer of the blog don't know SIGINT- it's in and outs are highly classified. But that doesn't mean that people like blogger can just go around making dumb arguments without someone laughing at them and calling them dumb. So much time wasted in that blog talking about how NSA seemed to be trying to make other agencies believe that they didn't "have caller ID", like come on.

Why would the blog utilize that much time for something so rudimentary to the entire discipline? Either a- ignorance or b- purposely being misleading. Hmmmm.

Ok, so, it can't collect data on the source of a "signal" without knowing the source?

Is that relevant to phone calls?
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

No no, delusional is being shown facts and then carrying on in spite of those facts... And the fact is, you got schooled whether you like to admit it or not... But that's not the topic here...

I'll make another comment about what you say about dumb arguments, you call any point you disagree with dumb, so it's clearly to be taken with a grain of salt.




Ok, so, it can't collect data on the source of a "signal" without knowing the source?

Is that relevant to phone calls?

Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI


Yes, if you would give a goddamn straight answer about the topic you claim to be expert in...

However, given your approach to this topic and the difficulty in answering straight questions leads me to suspect that, perhaps, the information presented in the article might just be accurate.

I won't be using it to make any argument, since I know so little about it, but the way you are responding to the topic.
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Yes, if you would give a goddamn straight answer about the topic you claim to be expert in...

Shut. Up.

Everything you say makes you look dumber and dumber. Like ****ing research something, use some common sense. Your know-nothingism is pathetic, but thankfully you're not in a position where you can affect anything important whatsoever, so the worst you can do here is amuse people.
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Shut. Up.

Everything you say makes you look dumber and dumber. Like ****ing research something, use some common sense. Your know-nothingism is pathetic, but thankfully you're not in a position where you can affect anything important whatsoever, so the worst you can do here is amuse people.

Ok, except this is a topic where we have a person who admits to having limited knowledge of a topic asking someone who has claimed expertise in the same topic. Asking an expert in a topic is a form of research, and that's information that you are unwilling or unable to share whatever the reason.

Your insults serve no purpose but to call into question your honesty.
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Ok, except this is a topic where we have a person who admits to having limited knowledge of a topic asking someone who has claimed expertise in the same topic. Asking an expert in a topic is a form of research, and that's information that you are unwilling or unable to share whatever the reason.

Your insults serve no purpose but to call into question your honesty.

Otherwise known as delusions of grandeur.
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Moderator's Warning:
Alright, that is enough. Stick to the topic or get out.
 
The problem would be, really, why someone who has no idea of how SIGINT works would just randomly believe what a conspiracy theorist website tells them. Like...why would you do that? It's insane.

Especially because conspiracy theorists have very strong opinions about intelligence agencies, but yet it turns out...they don't really know much. Color me surprised. You can't do signals collection without knowing where the selector is. If you don't know what a selector is, perhaps a remedial google search could help you out with extremely simple terms that these agencies use, that you don't even know, yet you know "all about" what it is these agencies do to cover up conspiracies. ....Right.

The difference between SIGINT and COMINT has been a minor kerfuffle for...way longer than I've been associated with things, possibly before I was even born. But 95% of the time they're interchangeable so it doesn't matter. And yes, phones count. If you didn't know phones were included in "signals" that's great, but then why would you have strong opinions on intelligence collection and intelligence agencies? Like it's absurd. The blatant lack of knowledge base when forming opinions is just astounding to me, and just when I think it can't get any worse or any more unbelievable, conspiracy theorists outdo themselves.

So of course NSA knew where the phone calls were from. It's impossible that they'd collect them but not know. So why would the blog want to play up that option so much? Think about it. Use your little conspiracy beans and come up with a decent reason why someone would do that. Could it be that discussing reasons why NSA wouldn't readily share it with FBI would lead to a bunch of reasons that would have absolutely nothing to do with any type of inside job or super conspiracy but instead a broken sharing system and territorial pissing contests? That wouldn't be very attractive to the Bobs of the world, though, would it? So instead we obfuscate the actual issue.

It's made by idiots, for idiots: It's a conspiracy theory.
 
The problem would be, really, why someone who has no idea of how SIGINT works would just randomly believe what a conspiracy theorist website tells them. Like...why would you do that? It's insane.

Not quite sure who this was directed at, but the childish tone shines through... I'll just assume it was targeted to me, keeps the response simpler.

I'm not simply believing what they are saying, I knew we had a claimed expert here who could, in theory, address the issues.,, especially when you claimed it was wrong within minutes of the op.

So, I raised the appropriate question that someone with claimed expertise should be able to address. Why is it false?

When that question turns into insults and other diversions from the topic, it makes me wonder if there might be something being concealed, like perhaps they are a lot closer to accurate than the insulter would like to admit.

Especially because conspiracy theorists have very strong opinions about intelligence agencies, but yet it turns out...they don't really know much. Color me surprised. You can't do signals collection without knowing where the selector is. If you don't know what a selector is, perhaps a remedial google search could help you out with extremely simple terms that these agencies use, that you don't even know, yet you know "all about" what it is these agencies do to cover up conspiracies. ....Right.

Right, I do a search for selector, it gives the dictionary definition. You are clearly using the term as jargon, which is useless to someone who does not understand the jargon.

Seriously, put up a link, a search term that. Will come up with usefulness results, or spend the 5 seconds to explain the term. You are the claimed expert on the subject after all.

As for the distinction, what and how data is collected is different from actions that involve the flow of money, resources, etc.. But you know that.

The difference between SIGINT and COMINT has been a minor kerfuffle for...way longer than I've been associated with things, possibly before I was even born. But 95% of the time they're interchangeable so it doesn't matter. And yes, phones count. If you didn't know phones were included in "signals" that's great, but then why would you have strong opinions on intelligence collection and intelligence agencies? Like it's absurd. The blatant lack of knowledge base when forming opinions is just astounding to me, and just when I think it can't get any worse or any more unbelievable, conspiracy theorists outdo themselves.

That's why the questions were raised...

So of course NSA knew where the phone calls were from. It's impossible that they'd collect them but not know.

So, you are saying the blog article was correct?

So why would the blog want to play up that option so much? Think about it. Use your little conspiracy beans and come up with a decent reason why someone would do that.
Could it be that discussing reasons why NSA wouldn't readily share it with FBI would lead to a bunch of reasons that would have absolutely nothing to do with any type of inside job or super conspiracy but instead a broken sharing system and territorial pissing contests? That wouldn't be very attractive to the Bobs of the world, though, would it? So instead we obfuscate the actual issue.

It's made by idiots, for idiots: It's a conspiracy theory.

That may be, but, understand, that when information is covered up, even for legitimate reasons, it raises the question of whether or not an example that could have seen, some, and potentially all the terrorists, stopped before they got on the planes... Well, you see the problem.

The blog played up the fact that of the data on the destination of the phone calls were known, that they should also have known the source of the calls, while it was being denied. So, I think you accidentally told us there that the blog article was correct, even if they didn't use the jargon that you prefer to use.
 
I told you I couldn't help you. I'm not wasting my time beyond this last, to help you work on your critical thinking:

The blog played up the fact that of the data on the destination of the phone calls were known, that they should also have known the source of the calls, while it was being denied.

The blog implies that...someone with critical thinking would look a bit further.

Hmmm, someone says NSA died something that anyone with even a vague understanding of intelligence operations would know is false. Now, either NSA was lying and knowing its lie wouldn't get past...anyone with any knowledge. OR the blogger saying that is lying or too ignorant to know that they're spreading a falsehood.

In the world of conspiracy theorists, the second option ISN'T EVEN CONSIDERED. A lack of critical thinking will leave them with a lack of well formed conclusions. Do you think you should consider that latter option, Bman?
 
Last edited:
I told you I couldn't help you. I'm not wasting my time beyond this last, to help you work on your critical thinking:



The blog implies that...someone with critical thinking would look a bit further.

Hmmm, someone says NSA died something that anyone with even a vague understanding of intelligence operations would know is false. Now, either NSA was lying and knowing its lie wouldn't get past...anyone with any knowledge. OR the blogger saying that is lying or too ignorant to know that they're spreading a falsehood.

In the world of conspiracy theorists, the second option ISN'T EVEN CONSIDERED. A lack of critical thinking will leave them with a lack of well formed conclusions. Do you think you should consider that latter option, Bman?

Ok, if that's the case, why are you so unwilling or unable to quantify or qualify what is false?

I've said it numerous times, I've not enough knowledge of the subject to know one way or the other...

So, on one hand, we have this blogger who is pulling a series of related comments together and trying to figure out the case...

On the other, we have a person who claims to be expert in the field saying it's wrong, but will not express in any way how it is wrong, beyond some vagueness.

So, on the scale, we have one that is attempting to be honest in analysis, and another who is acting as though there is something hidden worth protecting...

Now, I don't have the information to draw any conclusions, but it seems to me that, the ones who are trying to be honest, but partially wrong, are more trustworthy than the person who claims to know it all, but will not clarify.

Do you get that?

Hmm.. Btw, you've only barely answered the original questions...
 
Ok, if that's the case, why are you so unwilling or unable to quantify or qualify what is false?

I just flat out told you that every time they mention NSA saying they couldn't track the call, they're lying or promulgating false information, so that's false. One sentence in and yet another example of why I'm not responding to you anymore in this thread: it's a waste of time. Bye, Bman. Consider this another victory in your deluded mind. None of it matters: you're not important and nothing you do actually affects what we're talking about- thank god.
 
I just flat out told you that every time they mention NSA saying they couldn't track the call, they're lying or promulgating false information, so that's false. One sentence in and yet another example of why I'm not responding to you anymore in this thread: it's a waste of time. Bye, Bman. Consider this another victory in your deluded mind. None of it matters: you're not important and nothing you do actually affects what we're talking about- thank god.

First, how am I going to claim victory in a discussion where I'm claiming (legitimately) ignorance? That would be delusion. No, in this thread is genuine curiosity.

Now, I'm asking this as a question. Seriously, drop the attitude, address the points (or not), and you'll see I'm actually trying hard to respond to the angry tone.

You are saying that the NSA COULD track the calls, meaning that they likely DID lie about the knowledge of at least 2 of the hijackers to the FBI? That's without getting into any of the reasoning for that, just as the point of fact, they knew where the calls were coming and going? Possibly even the conversations? As was the overall claim of the article?

Now, if you are saying yes, then are you saying that it's something else in the article that's wrong? which would be odd because that's the opposite of what it seems that you've been saying in this thread...

Now, I have no claim in this, someone else presented this article, i don't know whether it's true or not, and the source is equivalent to what you will present given that, in this case, you are the expert among us. You are saying it's wrong, but the point you are making seems to indicate that the article might actually be correct.

I am legitimately confused. You have been on full on attack mode, and must not realize how you have not answered the question, except through jargon that I've asked you to explain. Then when you do give an answer, it's vaguely supportive of what you were claiming was false.
 
Mission to help you failed. A blog saying NSA denied something isn't the same as NSA denying something. Sad people can't understand that.
 
`
"Signals intelligence (often abbreviated as SIGINT) is intelligence-gathering by interception of signals, whether between people ("communications intelligence"—COMINT) or from electronic signals not directly used in communication ("electronic intelligence"—ELINT), or a combination of the two. As sensitive information is often encrypted, signals intelligence often involves the use of cryptanalysis. Also, traffic analysis—the study of who is signaling whom and in what quantity—can often produce valuable information, even when the messages themselves cannot be decrypted.

As a means of collecting intelligence, signals intelligence is a subset of intelligence collection management, which, in turn, is a subset of intelligence cycle management." - Source
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Your insults serve no purpose but to call into question your honesty.

Like when you referred to me as a male appendage the other day?
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Well, there are so many other facts, so much other evidence showing that the events of the day were staged and an inside job that this bit of information is simply another bit stacked on the huge pile of evidence contradicting the official story. :roll:
 
`
"Signals intelligence (often abbreviated as SIGINT) is intelligence-gathering by interception of signals, whether between people ("communications intelligence"—COMINT) or from electronic signals not directly used in communication ("electronic intelligence"—ELINT), or a combination of the two. As sensitive information is often encrypted, signals intelligence often involves the use of cryptanalysis. Also, traffic analysis—the study of who is signaling whom and in what quantity—can often produce valuable information, even when the messages themselves cannot be decrypted.

As a means of collecting intelligence, signals intelligence is a subset of intelligence collection management, which, in turn, is a subset of intelligence cycle management." - Source

Thanks for that information. The thread detractor could and should have posted that information from the beginning but chose to play games instead. I looked it up the first time he posted it but 39 posts later, he still hasn't explained what he's talking about and now claims he's giving up because those asking him questions are ignorant and have the audacity to ask questions they should know the answer to.

In any case, defending the NSA is a desperate exercise in futility, they've been fully exposed as a rogue criminal entity that spies on everyone on the planet, including each other and the rest of the US government. So Jon Gold has every right to believe that the NSA is criminally involved in covering up 9/11. We already know from overwhelming evidence the Bush administration, NORAD, FBI, CIA, NIST and many other entities and individuals fully participated in the 9/11 cover-up so the NSA is not likely an exception. Whether parts of the cover-up are deliberate or not depends on what part(s) compartmentalization played respectively. At this point the criminal cover-up is so pervasive that exposing the truth about 9/11 will expose the many criminal traitors involved and that's why it's incumbent upon government to fight any and all exposure because any exposure will likely open up the proverbial can of worms and that is very dangerous for the current government agenda.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's Minister of Propaganda
 
Mission to help you failed. A blog saying NSA denied something isn't the same as NSA denying something. Sad people can't understand that.

I guess it's not possible to get clarification...

That's too bad.
 
Re: NSA Lied About Knowledge Of 2 Hijackers In U.S., Didn't Inform The FBI

Like when you referred to me as a male appendage the other day?

You mean after I fell into the trap you made; you made an entire thread as bait for a response, so ya, different situation. That showed you as being dishonest, because you presented yourself as being interested in the topic, but then showed your cards that you were only interested in attacking people to respond.
 
`
"Signals intelligence (often abbreviated as SIGINT) is intelligence-gathering by interception of signals, whether between people ("communications intelligence"—COMINT) or from electronic signals not directly used in communication ("electronic intelligence"—ELINT), or a combination of the two. As sensitive information is often encrypted, signals intelligence often involves the use of cryptanalysis. Also, traffic analysis—the study of who is signaling whom and in what quantity—can often produce valuable information, even when the messages themselves cannot be decrypted.

As a means of collecting intelligence, signals intelligence is a subset of intelligence collection management, which, in turn, is a subset of intelligence cycle management." - Source

Thanks, I had looked at the wiki page, but hoped that someone with claimed experience was around that should have been able to answer the question as to how the article was false...

But then the subtle answer that was given seems to imply that the article was accurate... Too bad I don't know.
 
Thanks, I had looked at the wiki page, but hoped that someone with claimed experience was around that should have been able to answer the question as to how the article was false...

But then the subtle answer that was given seems to imply that the article was accurate... Too bad I don't know.

If you don't know why do you state "the subtle answer that was given seems to imply that the article was accurate"?

Since, well, you don't know.

BTW - Since the Blog discusses the hijackers, doesn't this suggest there was a hijacking? And if there was a hijacking, and (according to the blog) Al Qaeda operatives were at work, isn't the majority of the "OCT" corroborated by this revelation?
 
If you don't know why do you state "the subtle answer that was given seems to imply that the article was accurate"?

Since, well, you don't know.

BTW - Since the Blog discusses the hijackers, doesn't this suggest there was a hijacking? And if there was a hijacking, and (according to the blog) Al Qaeda operatives were at work, isn't the majority of the "OCT" corroborated by this revelation?

Lmao... I said that because the answer that was given DOES imply the article was correct. I don't know whether it's correct or not because I don't have enough knowledge to make that determination, and the resident expert could or would not give a clear answer describing what was false about the article, and the one thing he said was false goes against the NSA claims mentioned in the article, suggesting that they had in fact withheld information from the FBI.
 
Lmao... I said that because the answer that was given DOES imply the article was correct. I don't know whether it's correct or not because I don't have enough knowledge to make that determination, and the resident expert could or would not give a clear answer describing what was false about the article, and the one thing he said was false goes against the NSA claims mentioned in the article, suggesting that they had in fact withheld information from the FBI.

So, in other words, you have no real idea if the blog is correct and the above is a smokescreen.

BTW - Since the Blog discusses the hijackers, doesn't this suggest there was a hijacking? And if there was a hijacking, and (according to the blog) Al Qaeda operatives were at work, isn't the majority of the "OCT" corroborated by this revelation?
 
So, in other words, you have no real idea if the blog is correct and the above is a smokescreen.

BTW - Since the Blog discusses the hijackers, doesn't this suggest there was a hijacking? And if there was a hijacking, and (according to the blog) Al Qaeda operatives were at work, isn't the majority of the "OCT" corroborated by this revelation?

No, but the person who is a claimed expert gave answers that seem to imply the article is correct. Maybe you can get him to give a straight answer? I tried.

Second, yes, that does support that aspect of the oct, one that, while I'm not fully convinced by the evidence, is a point that I'm more than happy to accept. Just because there was real hijackers does not preclude that they were protected from being caught or allowed to hijack the planes...mor worse, that they were guided ultimately by criminals within the us.
 
Back
Top Bottom