Now the F-word is offensive!

[Bodi]

Why is it that people carrying pictures of a fetus or embryo, with no clothes in the picture, are not prosecuted for child pornography?

Wait... so you are saying that the couple of pictures that my wife and I took of our
daughters when they were naked as infants and toddlers is child pornography? :roll:

Get outa town with that crap already... talk about trying to hard.
That has to be the lamest attempt at being clever that I have seen in some time.

 

[Bodi]

zygotes and embryos are living cells that happen to be human. so are the living cells left over in the body after someone dies ie: hair and fingernails continue to grow. are they living humans i ask you?

Oh wait Gladiator, I take that back... THIS is the lamest attempt at being clever that I have seen in some time.

 

[prometeus]

But they are not used in general conversations, and that was her point. Correct too...

It is not general conversation that is used to establish public policy or law.

Dinner? Look, don't get hung up on the phrase, "going to have". The operative (no pun intended) words are "going to have" and not "baby".

Going to have what? If it is in the future it is not now. It is rather simple actually.

It is a baby at 30 weeks just as it is a baby at 38 weeks

Yes, if you mus resort to emotional appeal.

The reason that the unborn baby is called an unborn baby is not out of emotional appeal.

Right, it is because of stupidity and dishonesty. Unborn baby, you have got to be ****ting. Where else is that term used? Is that like undead corpse?

It is because it is a baby that has simply not gone through the labour and birth process yet

No, it is a baby because otherwise ytou can not accuse women of murder.

much like a steak is still a steak even if it is rare.

Really?
By the way if you are making an omelet you do no have one you are making one.

 

[kerussll]

zygotes and embryos are living cells that happen to be human. so are the living cells left over in the body after someone dies ie: hair and fingernails continue to grow. are they living humans i ask you?

No, because the cells in your body die shortly after you do. When they are dead, they are obviously not alive and human, now are they? And I think that's a myth about the hair/ fingernails growing after you die.

 

[Gladiator]

We probably should get rid of the terms "egg" and "sperm" and start calling them "half babies".

If a blastocyst is the same value as a breathing person, then why don't pro-lifers take the blastocysts out to family dinners, instead of leaving them at the fertility clinic all night? A blostocyst can be boxed up and packed in dry ice. The box with the blastocyst can be set on an extra chair at the table in the restaurant, while the rest of the family converses and dines.

 

[Bodi]

It is not general conversation that is used to establish public policy or law.

YOU insulted her comment about the terms not being used in anything but abortion debates or in law.
Don't change the argument or ignore the point. Own up to it and be a man.

You were wrong.

They are not used in general conversation.

Going to have what? If it is in the future it is not now. It is rather simple actually.

It isn't rather simle, it is EXTREMELY simple... she is going to have the baby that is in her womb.
It is a baby at birth and it is a baby during the later fetus stage while still in the womb. Simple.

Yes, if you mus resort to emotional appeal.

This is like the saying, "keep telling a lie long enough and it becomes true".
I am not making an emotion appeal. I am sticking to facts. Sorry that you can't handle it bud...

Right, it is because of stupidity and dishonesty. Unborn baby, you have got to be ****ting. Where else is that term used? Is that like undead corpse?

That term is only used in abortion debates against people like you in order to make the connection that you are so afraid to make. I never ever use the term unborn baby anywhere else, since most of the people that have ever talked with understand that it is just a baby in the womb. A baby. That's it.

No, it is a baby because otherwise ytou can not accuse women of murder.

I don't accuse women of murder. Stop making ridiculous assumptions...

Really?
By the way if you are making an omelet you do no have one you are making one.

Whoosh! That just shot way over, didn't it. You might make some startling revelations if you started doing some cooking...

 

[Gladiator]

GOP Tom Curry, Tennessee State Rep, has a different name for unborn babies of illegal immigrants.

Tennessee GOPer Curry Todd: Illegal Immigrants Will Multiply 'Like Rats' (VIDEO)

Latino Community Responds to TN State Rep. Curry Todd's 'Rat' Comments | My Fox Memphis | Fox 13 News


Some Latin American women come to the US to have their babies, so the child will be a US Citizen.



//

 

[majora$$hole]

The only facts I mentioned are that zygotes, embryos, and fetuses are alive and human. And that the name you assign them doesn't change what they are.

my arguement is that according to the law they should be to be consistant with the law that deals with the opposite which is already established in the legal community.

 

[majora$$hole]

No, because the cells in your body die shortly after you do. When they are dead, they are obviously not alive and human, now are they? And I think that's a myth about the hair/ fingernails growing after you die.

so then according to your logic the law for death should be changed to be the point at which ALL cells have decomposed?

 

[kerussll]

so then according to your logic the law for death should be changed to be the point at which ALL cells have decomposed?

Umm, no. Where did you get that idea?

 

[kerussll]

my arguement is that according to the law they should be to be consistant with the law that deals with the opposite which is already established in the legal community.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

 

[SheWolf]

What's wrong with fetus? It's a technical term.

I guess getting medically technical is offensive to some lifers

 

[SheWolf]

The only time the words fetus/embryo/zygot/zef are used by lay people is in context of abortion debates. These are scientific terms denoting the specific timeline of a baby's development. People using these terms when arguing their ProChoice stance effectively (in their own minds) dehumanize a baby. Let's face it. Nobody wants to kill babies. So we have to call them something else.

I call them unborn babies sometimes in debate, but I don't think calling them one thing or another changes what they are. I don't nit pick as long as it's clear we are talking about embryonic abortion in most cases and not fetal. Stating the difference is important to some people including myself

 

[SheWolf]

So what? Really, so what? Do you only speak in scientific terms? No one only speaks in scientific terms. The only reason too insist on using only scientific terms is to dehumanize the subject in order to rationalize it as acceptable. Have the courage to admit that.

I am sick of being accused of dehumanizing z/e/f/unborn children. If I even said unborn children, you'd still accuse me of dehumanizing them, because that view suits you even though it is a false view. I am not a bigot towards unborn life, nor to have contempt or hate for it. This is so absurd.

I am not pro choice because of hate. I am pro choice because I think legal abortion is more practical than illegal, criminalized abortion for hundreds of reasons. Calling a z/e/f/unborn child a parasite or a clump of cells is dehumanizing, IMO, which I do NOT do!

For you guys complaining about us being bigoted, it's time for you to recognize your own bigotry towards us and get over it.

 

[SheWolf]

This semantic stuff on both sides in annoying and stupid.

The OP is about somebody getting offended by technical terms.. The f word is offensive, and then there are pro lifers complaining about it, saying it's dehumanizing. I also know you lifers complaining, wouldn't like if choicers tried to beat you into talking their lingo with passive insults either. I am not that naive.

Why is it is so hard to respect others and their choice of words, given you understand their reasoning behind those terms?

This debate can even further break down into semantics.. you're not really pro life, you're anti woman or pro fetus.. and you're not really pro choice, but pro abortion or pro death. I have had that debate tactic used on me several times, and I see lifers using "pro abortion" all the time instead of "choice." It always bothers me. Do you not understand my beliefs?

Semantics a weak thing to debate, because it's avoiding a real exchange of ideas and understanding.


And BTW.. somebody said people never say z/e/f except in the abortion debate, and that is completely inaccurate. Everybody uses embryo in common speech like

embryonic stem cell research, and
.. in the case of invitro.. frozen embryos

Nobody says "(unborn) baby cell research" or "frozen unborn child."

It isn't dehumanizing or a symptom of bigotry..


If you want respect, you have to give it.

Let choicers use their own language and you can use yours.

 

[majora$$hole]

Oh wait Gladiator, I take that back... THIS is the lamest attempt at being clever that I have seen in some time.

not really "clever" i just looked at the law concerning the opposite and applied logic.

 

[Cephus]

You people bitch about pro-lifers using the words "baby","unborn child", or "unborn baby" because it humanizes the unborn and you have the nerve to bitch about a article saying the word fetus should be banned? Talk about hypocritical.

The point here is accuracy over emotional appeal. It isn't a baby, it's a fetus. Words have meanings for a reason. It is improper to call a fetus a baby, just as it's improper to call a seed a tree. However, people on both sides would rather wage an emotional war than a rational one and therefore, both are wrong.

 

[Cephus]

Wait... so you are saying that the couple of pictures that my wife and I took of our
daughters when they were naked as infants and toddlers is child pornography? :roll:

Get outa town with that crap already... talk about trying to hard.
That has to be the lamest attempt at being clever that I have seen in some time.

Yes, that happens. I know someone who had pictures of his 1-year old son in the bathtub, he showed them to the wrong person and now, he's a registered sex offender. It's idiotic.

 

[liblady]

Yes, that happens. I know someone who had pictures of his 1-year old son in the bathtub, he showed them to the wrong person and now, he's a registered sex offender. It's idiotic.

seriously? that person was actually prosecuted? somehow i can't believe this.

 

[Cephus]

seriously? that person was actually prosecuted? somehow i can't believe this.

Yup, absolutely happened.

 

[mac]

I am sick of being accused of dehumanizing z/e/f/unborn children. If I even said unborn children, you'd still accuse me of dehumanizing them, because that view suits you even though it is a false view. I am not a bigot towards unborn life, nor to have contempt or hate for it. This is so absurd.

I am not pro choice because of hate. I am pro choice because I think legal abortion is more practical than illegal, criminalized abortion for hundreds of reasons. Calling a z/e/f/unborn child a parasite or a clump of cells is dehumanizing, IMO, which I do NOT do!

Great, congratulations.

For you guys complaining about us being bigoted, it's time for you to recognize your own bigotry towards us and get over it.

You obviously don't understand the difference between bigotry and disagreement.

 

[Arcana XV]

seriously? that person was actually prosecuted? somehow i can't believe this.

Believe it. It's happened to more people than you know. This article describes the problem very well:

Cute, naked photos of tots pose parental dilemma - Health - Kids and parenting - msnbc.com

“People could be arrested for [what we used to regard as] normal pictures,” says Adler.

Indeed they could. This spring, Alma Vasquez, a 22-year-old Utah mom, was charged with two counts of sexual exploitation of a minor after, police said, she took photos of the child’s father, 34-year-old Sergio Diaz-Palomino, sexually abusing their infant son.

But charges were later dropped because police determined Diaz-Palomino did not assault the baby. Instead, the couple was giving the boy a bath and after the bath, while the baby was still wet and laughing and the father happily kissed the infant’s body, Vasquez documented the scene as family memorabilia. She took the film to Walgreens for processing into prints, and a technician alerted the police. Arrests, jail, indictments, the child’s removal from Vasquez’s home by the state, followed. Diaz-Palomino, who was in the country illegally, was deported.

 

[Kal'Stang]

My point is that the only time we hear these scientific terms is when people are discussing abortion. And they absolutely do dehumanize babies.

Or in a scientific news article. Or medical journal. Or from someone who has dedicated their life to studying those stages of life. Now unless you are talking about any of the aforementioned things then of course you're going to hear them mainly from abortion discussions. Especially when you consider that it is a HOT topic that everyone has an opinion on. The vast majority of people don't really have an opinion about what a goat zygote happens to be doing at X point of time of its zygote life.

Also there is nothing wrong or dehumanizing about using the terms zygote or fetus or ZEF when refering to a baby. It is a scientific term that talks about specific stages of life. Be it human or a goats life. On the flip side there is nothing humanizing about the use of the word baby or unborn baby either. After all the word baby is applied to everything that gives life in the animal kingdom. From humans to goats.

 

[Kal'Stang]

seriously? that person was actually prosecuted? somehow i can't believe this.

It's happened a few times. The one I know of was about a woman that had taken a picture of her son taking a bath. Had the pictures developed at a safe way and they called the cops on her for child pornography. She's now a registered sex offender also.