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Now Russia Is Adding Inferior Optics To Its T-80 Tanks, Too

Rogue Valley

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2.9.23
We already knew that the Russian army—in a desperate effort to make good its losses in Ukraine—was pulling old T-72 tanks out of storage, adding 1970s-style optics and shipping them toward the front. Probably to get blown up. Now it seems the Russians are giving their slightly-better T-80 tanks the same treatment. T-80s are starting to show up with the same outdated 1PN96MT-02 thermal gunner’s sights that could put “war-emergency” T-72s at a disadvantage in Ukraine. Russia’s nearly yearlong wider war on Ukraine hasn’t been kind to the Russian armor corps. The Kremlin has lost around 1,600 tanks in Ukraine, including more than 500 that Russian troops abandoned—and which the Ukrainians then captured.That’s three times as many tanks as the Ukrainian army has lost. While it’s true that Russia has in storage some 10,000 old tanks—T-62s, T-72s and T-80s—many have been sitting outside, exposed to the elements and looters, for decades. Their rubber seals are brittle. Their electronics have corroded. Their optics are cloudy.

Clearly the optics were a problem with the stored T-72s and T-80s. After decades, the gunner’s sights needed replacing. But it’s evident that Russia is struggling to source modern optics. Many of the emergency T-62s rolled into battle with analog 1PN96MT-02 thermal sights in the gunner’s position. To spot a 1PN96MT-02, look for a small, square window nearly flush with the top left of a tank’s turret. The 1PN96MT-02 would’ve been state-of-the-art ... in the 1970s. It allows a skilled gunner to engage a target as far as two miles away. That’s just over the half the maximum range of the newer, digital Sonsa-U sight that equips the latest T-90 tanks, as well as a few upgraded T-80s and T-72s. That’s a problem for Russian tankers. They’re trapped in a technological time-warp, traveling backward to the 1970s at the same time their foes—Ukrainian tankers—are re-equipping with Western tank models including the British Challenger 2, the German Leopard 2 and the American M-1. All three of the Western tanks have excellent day and night optics that see farther, with greater precision, than the 1PN96MT-02 can do—and should at least match the specifications of the Sosna-U. A Ukrainian Challenger 2 should be able to shoot at a Russian war-reserve T-80 before the T-80’s crew even sees the Challenger 2.


For a Russian tank crew, the war in Ukraine is about to get far more deadly as Ukraine acquires modern Western tanks with sophisticated digital sighting components.
 
"While it’s true that Russia has in storage some 10,000 old tanks—T-62s, T-72s and T-80s—many have been sitting outside, exposed to the elements and looters, for decades..."

Didn't BeerFTW tell us that Russia had huge stockpiles of tanks just ready to ship to Ukraine not too long ago?

I've been to countries where old Soviet military equipment is sitting outside in the elements, rusting away. I've had to use old Soviet industrial equipment indoors - I dread to imagine trusting my life to equipment that's been out in all conditions and then rushed into service.
 
For a Russian tank crew, the war in Ukraine is about to get far more deadly as Ukraine acquires modern Western tanks with sophisticated digital sighting components.
Good. Send them back across the border they came from.
 
Inferior thermal sights are better than no thermal sights.
 
For a Russian tank crew, the war in Ukraine is about to get far more deadly as Ukraine acquires modern Western tanks with sophisticated digital sighting components.




Its funny how you have won battles that still have to take place.
 
Inferior thermal sights are better than no thermal sights.



Keep in mind if it were Ukraine carrying same upgrades - and to their credit, they have been quite innovative- the western media would be hailing it as genius.
 
Keep in mind if it were Ukraine carrying same upgrades - and to their credit, they have been quite innovative- the western media would be hailing it as genius.
My friend the sights are the most important part of the tank. If you cannot see you cannot shoot. Those old sights have no reach, the difference is measured in Kilometers. Those old sights render a T80 as next to useless, its shortsighted.
 
My friend the sights are the most important part of the tank. If you cannot see you cannot shoot. Those old sights have no reach, the difference is measured in Kilometers. Those old sights render a T80 as next to useless, its shortsighted.



You are far too dismissive of Russians and Russian equipment. They are loaded with deficiences, and therefore useless, or death traps to those using them. I do not find that conclusion convincing. Russian equioment in the right hands can still be effective. And after close to a year of war, Ukrainians prove that. Ukrainians have pressed into service all those junk T64 tanks. And the media has been around to play up that. Soon Ukrainians will be receiving the original ancient Leopards; I take it you object to Leopard Is on same grounds you dismissed T64s?
 
My friend the sights are the most important part of the tank. If you cannot see you cannot shoot. Those old sights have no reach, the difference is measured in Kilometers. Those old sights render a T80 as next to useless, its shortsighted.



You cannot see at all? And why is a shortsighted tank useless? All engagements using tanks are long range? Is there a shortage of close quarter combats in Ukraine? If anything the major combats so far in Ukraine have been close quaters and urban; as in Mariupol, Severodonetsk, Lysychansk.

Lastly I have to add that I am accepting the Forbes piece shared by @Rogue Valley only for purposes of debate. It is easily all lies. There have been thousands of articles like this since the start of the war. Russia was supposed to have run out of missiles like months ago. Russian tank factories ground to a halt back in February. Russian conscripts are unique in the world in that they cannot be trained, do not become combat hardened, and just oblige Ukranians by dying in the tens of thousands....

If all that is true why is it Kyiv in doom and gloom? The Nato/Eu side promised winter and summer Ukrainian counter offensives to take back Dobass and Crimea, where are those counter offensives? Kyiv officials had estimated by fall this year to have reclaimed all of 1991 Ukraine, is that highly optimistic goal still feasible?

I much prefer Forbes to tell me why US Gen Hodges' vaunted counter offensives appear to be still born. What killed them in the womb.

Otherwise all these talks about Russian junk is just to distract from a few unpleasant facts. The Kharkiv and Kherson counter offensives, while brilliant and dazzling, not unlike Barbarossa, ran out of steam before the Russians were knocked out. Now Ukrainian Gen in Chief Valerii Zaluzhnyi is sounding not unlike Panzer General Heinz Guderian before Moscow in the winter of 1941: no gas, panzer stalled, Russian hordes everywhere.
 
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You are far too dismissive of Russians and Russian equipment. They are loaded with deficiences, and therefore useless, or death traps to those using them. I do not find that conclusion convincing. Russian equioment in the right hands can still be effective. And after close to a year of war, Ukrainians prove that. Ukrainians have pressed into service all those junk T64 tanks. And the media has been around to play up that. Soon Ukrainians will be receiving the original ancient Leopards; I take it you object to Leopard Is on same grounds you dismissed T64s?
You are wrong with several facts. The T64 was to replace the T62. it was a blank sheet design, very advanced, to advanced for Soviet type mass production. The factory for the T64 was and is in the Ukraine. The Soviets decided to built the T72, but kept a small production of T64 going in the Ukraine.
The Ukraine has produced the T64 and upgraded it consistently, electronics, sights, gunstabelizer and engine. It is considered an equal to the modern versions of the T80.
Ukraine will get from Germany the 2A6 and from Poland 2A4, those are very modern tanks. The only difference between those tanks is electronics, so no old ancient Leos for the Ukraine. The latest upgrade is the 2A7, it is so new that they have started delivery end of last year.

No, I do not underestimate Russian tanks, but if you put old outdated optics and sights on a T80, you degrade the fighting ability of that tank, by several kilometers, especially in bad weather conditions and at night.
 
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