• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Notes From The Didache On The Early Christian View Of Abortion

And women now suffer because of it. Where's the so called "morality" in that?
 
Gordy327 said:
I'll let you know when I give it. For now, I'll stick to facts.
Click to expand...
I know when you give it you just pretend that it's fact it let's call the arrogance.
Gordy327 said:
Dobbs effeectively Invalidated the viability standard by putting abortion in the hands of the states.
Click to expand...
Does the Constitution states it should be
Gordy327 said:
The states themselves may maintain that standard on their own accord or they may not.
Click to expand...
The way it's supposed to work
Gordy327 said:
No, they're simply more irrational and not interested in compromise, as I've already said!
Click to expand...
Yeah everyone that doesn't agree with your political opinions is irrational I've heard you make that argument and only that argument. Is that all you have everyone but me is stupid?
Gordy327 said:
They're arrogant and sanctimonious enough to involve themselves in other peoples lives or decisions when it's really none of their business or concern at ll.
Click to expand...
You know who else says this people who like to molest children. Does it sanctimonious for us to confront child predators and get all into their personal life?
Gordy327 said:
And now the states will be challenged again. History repeats.
Click to expand...
And we'll see how that goes.
Gordy327 said:
No, still fact. The Constitution enumerates and establishes our rights. That is just a legal fact.
Click to expand...
And not once anywhere in the entire Constitution does it say you have the right to an abortion. And writes not enumerated in the Constitution are left up to the states
Gordy327 said:
I'd bet it plays a part.
Click to expand...
To some degree perhaps
 
choiceone said:
Of course, they do. They support time limit restrictions.
Click to expand...
But why it's just a stupid parasite you shouldn't be allowed to live?
So it's 3 months and one day it starts being a stupid parasite. Why didn't burst out of the body and start living on its own?
choiceone said:

Answered above.
Click to expand...
In a very inconsistent way with other things you said.
A returning Roe v Wade was not a presidential order
choiceone said:
This is what conservatives say when they disagree with you. Our country is more than a constitutional republic. It is a constitutional democratic republic. Democratic modifies republic, and constitutional modifies democratic republic.
Click to expand...
No it's absolutely not a Democratic Republic of any sort. The supreme law is strictly the Constitution not the majority. It never was you don't know what a Democratic Republic is if you think that this country is one.
Yes and they must submit to the supreme law of the Constitution. That's why democratically electing people that must submit to the supreme law means that this country is not in any shape or form a Democratic Republic

Take for instance same-sex marriage if it was a Democratic Republic we still wouldn't be allowed to have that because it was a court ruling based on a constitution not popular vote. The supreme Court raised its middle finger to the majority because they don't matter it's not a Democratic Republic of any sort and went ahead and made the ruling and the states must obey.

That's why we're not a Democratic Republic.
choiceone said:
And judges are supposed to represent the principles of their state and federal constitutions.
Click to expand...
So where is the majority rule in that nowhere at all that's what I thought so you're mistaken when you say anything but a constitutional republic
choiceone said:
The Republican state legislatures in some red states have actually tried to get around their state constitutions to make laws that violate principles in those constitutions that they don't like. It's disgusting.
Click to expand...
But yet you want to pretend that someone who's elected has authority to do this in the sense of a Democratic Republic
choiceone said:
So we disagree. Big woo. But many things are responsible for it, and the fact that many young people think that many older church members are hypocrites or support values they think un-Christian is not a surprise.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's that. I think this is what people tell themselves.
 

You didnt dispute anything I said and you discussed law...not morality. Dobbs did leave the law up to the states and enables states to allow women/their doctors to kill their unborn without due process and almost all of them do allow it. And with every state that allows its residents to vote on it, with only 1 exception, all have voted for fewer restrictions.

So society is going with its moral compass and valuing women and our lives. That is how the trend has been. Abortion had been going down every year before Dobbs...it's actually started climbing again since it passed. I'm good with that progress, which was based on women being in better socio-economic positions and not needing abortions. They still had choice tho...and when some states tried to take it away...we've seen "panic abortions" where women have them early because they're afraid they'll lose their chance. Or, they drive where they can.
 
Ganondagan said:
I am who gets to say what is moral and immoral. If you want to challenge me on it, go ahead, shake your fist at the clouds.
Click to expand...
How can you be so sure you are right? How is it moral to make a family suffer from deeper poverty ? How is it moral to saddle a new child with the certainty of future poverty. What's moral about harming an entire family with the chaos and anxiety from an unplanned child they know they know they cannot care for. Is it moral to insist on a birth that will mean the woman, the bread winner of the family will lose her job. How is causing homelessness moral. Why is morality more important than living intelligently and protecting the already living family against harm?
 

I didnt see him make any moral argument at all. Just a personal "declaration." That's usually a sign of an emotionally-derived opinion.
 

I don't care. If there is no issue of danger to either the mother or the human life in the womb then it's immoral.
 
Ganondagan said:
I didn't say it was moral.
Click to expand...
So you agree states making women suffer via abortion restrictions is immoral? Good.
Ganondagan said:
I said the regulations belong with the state not the federal government.
Click to expand...
And women are suffering for it too.
Ganondagan said:
For me it's immoral...period.
Click to expand...
Then don't have an abortion. Problem solved.
Ganondagan said:
I don't care. If there is no issue of danger to either the mother or the human life in the womb then it's immoral.
Click to expand...
Pregnancy by its very nature is a danger to either or both. Explain why it's immoral.
 

I'm sorry if the family is inconvienced by the child. Life's a b*tch, get over it.
 
Gordy327 said:
So you agree states making women suffer via abortion restrictions is immoral? Good.
Click to expand...
Nope, didn't say that at all.
Gordy327 said:
And women are suffering for it too.

Then don't have an abortion. Problem solved.

Pregnancy by its very nature is a danger to either or both. Explain why it's immoral.
Click to expand...

Because it's a deliberate killing of an innocent human life.
 
Lursa said:
I didnt see him make any moral argument at all. Just a personal "declaration." That's usually a sign of an emotionally-derived opinion.
Click to expand...

Perhaps to you. But then, I don't expect much from you in any event.
 
Ganondagan said:
Nope, didn't say that at all.
Click to expand...
You didn't say it was moral. Therefore it's immoral. You are the self proclaimed arbiter of morality after all.
Ganondagan said:
Because it's a deliberate killing of an innocent human life.
Click to expand...
So? How does that explain anything? What's it "innocent" of exactly? Besides, since it's a danger, then according to you, abortion is moral.
 
Ganondagan said:
Perhaps to you. But then, I don't expect much from you in any event.
Click to expand...

Well you have nothing but that and you couldnt dispute/argue a single thing in my post where I explained mine, politely.

So your post is just a concession to your feeilngs and realization you dont have a valid moral argument. That wasnt even a complete argument from me but since most pro-choice people dont present more than their feelings or beliefs on this, it doesnt really pay to waste the time.
 
Ganondagan said:
I'm sorry if the family is inconvienced by the child. Life's a b*tch, get over it.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, abortion can take some of the bitchiness out of life. But it's clear you don't care about a family's circumstances, even if it leads to more hardship. That doesn't sound very "moral" to me.
 
Feelings is all pro lifers seem to have on the issue. No logic, no rationality, no consideration for anything outside their tiny box.
 
Gordy327 said:
Fortunately, abortion can take some of the bitchiness out of life. But it's clear you don't care about a family's circumstances, even if it leads to more hardship. That doesn't sound very "moral" to me.
Click to expand...

The position of many anti-abortionists is the base, ignoble goal of "as long as both survive the birth with a heartbeat." That just reduces both to numbers, physiological functions....it dehumanizes both. @Ganondagan this is your position, right?

It doesnt matter that she loses kidney function or is likely to have a stroke, if the unborn will be born with non-functional lungs and be condemned to a ventilator for weeks, or life, or is severely defective, must be permanently medicated for pain until it expires anyway, etc.

To take the decision from the woman and her doctor is the opposite from moral, as are the desires of people who want to impose their will on others. It's not about God...God will take care of things His Way...it's arrogant to usurp that. If the woman believed, it would be up to her to follow His Guidance...not have strangers impose themselves on her life.

I value quality of life over quantity.
 
Gordy327 said:
Fortunately, abortion can take some of the bitchiness out of life. But it's clear you don't care about a family's circumstances, even if it leads to more hardship. That doesn't sound very "moral" to me.
Click to expand...

Do you think killing a innocent human life is moral because it makes the mother's life easier? How about killing a new born, or a 6 month old, or a 1 year old? I'm sure killing them would make the mother's life easier as well. All of that could be reality if convenience of the mother's life is the criteria for abortion laws. It's the woman's choice after all.
 
You certain don't value the human life in the womb.
 
Ganondagan said:
Do you think killing a innocent human life is moral because it makes the mother's life easier?
Click to expand...
its not my decision and im not the one invoking morality. I already said i have no moral qualms about abortion. Neither have you explained what the unborn is "innocent" of.
Ganondagan said:
How about killing a new born, or a 6 month old, or a 1 year old? I'm sure killing them would make the mother's life easier as well.
Click to expand...
Ask the mother. But then, that's generally not happening either.
Ganondagan said:
All of that could be reality if convenience of the mother's life is the criteria for abortion laws. It's the woman's choice after all.
Click to expand...
Yes, her choice as it should be and abortion is the easiest, safest, and cheapest means. Pregnancy itself is not a convenience. Neither is there any rational or legal reason to restrict abortion.
 

Safest? Someone dies everytime an abortion is performed. Doesn't sound safe to me.
 
Ganondagan said:
Safest? Someone dies everytime an abortion is performed. Doesn't sound safe to me.
Click to expand...
Someone? Who? The only person in an abortion is the woman. And her health is threatened by pregnancy itself. Abortion is certainly safer and easier than gestation and birth.
 
Ganondagan said:
What's the value of the mother's life? Each has the same value.
Click to expand...
That doesn't explain the value. That's just an empty assertion. What's the value?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.