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Not Looking Good

NWRatCon said:
That is the most meaningless, worthless Op-Ed I could imagine, and I have a very good imagination. You missed the two most important points in it entirely: The complete lack of a correlation in their calculation and elimination of all other variables. It's unadulterated junk. It's a conclusion casting about for a justification and fails entirely. Did you even read past the headline?
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Invective is not an argument.
 
There is already no question that this epidemic is worse than "the annual flu". There is already no question that SARS-CoV-2 is more virulent (transmissible+fatal) than the annual flu. Can we at least eliminate this inanity from the conversation, now?
 
Jack Hays said:
Why do you fear the data?
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I don't. I understand the data, which is why I dismissed the Op-Ed. I also understood the motivation for its publication, which is not public protection, but financial.
 
BlueTex said:
#TrumpBurialPits

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https://twitter.com/morphonios/status/1248463314255933441
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Those are the 10,000+ elderly deliberately killed by the Democratic governors of New York, California and New Jersey who ordered that nursing homes were forced to accept patients with covid-19 over the protests of nursing homes - killing over 10,000 elderly. The took Ophan's instruction that old people must die - so they set out to kill old people successfully.
 
NWRatCon said:
I don't. I understand the data, which is why I dismissed the Op-Ed. I also understood the motivation for its publication, which is not public protection, but financial.
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Nope. You're going to have to stop thinking in terms of a still photograph and think in terms of a motion picture.
 
Moderate Right said:
It is the governors who are re-opening, including New York and the California coast states. Trump isn't ordering anyone to reopen. In fact, he openly criticized the Georgia governor.
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NY and CA are not opening up to the extent the red states are that you can prove. You won’t provide that evidence I asked of you. Typical MR, not able to back up your own word. Your word, and claim, is worthless.

Trump is doing everything he can to get states to reopen. You and everybody else on the planet knows that. He’s finally using the DPA, but for the wrong reason, to force meat processors to stay open, even though they have a 40% infection rate. Trump criticizing the GA gov was a rare and unique instance. He has many times criticized state guidelines being too strict and has spoken in support of protesting state guidelines. All facts.
 
Jack Hays said:
Maybe loose is better.

[h=2]WSJ Op Ed – Lockdowns Accomplish Nothing[/h][FONT="]Posted on [URL="https://realclimatescience.com/2020/04/wsj-op-ed-lockdowns-accomplish-nothing/"]April 27, 2020[/URL] by tonyheller[/FONT]
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Typical Jack Hays: “Maybe loose is better.”, which says nothing. You take no position, but it is implied that you support looser guidelines based on an op ed, with no support among the health/medical community. Or, what is your position? This is a debate forum, you know.

That comment about Sweden is hilarious. Sweden has more virus and death per capita than the US. Duh, which country’s plan do you think is working better?
 
bluesmoke said:
Typical Jack Hays: “Maybe loose is better.”, which says nothing. You take no position, but it is implied that you support looser guidelines based on an op ed, with no support among the health/medical community. Or, what is your position? This is a debate forum, you know.

That comment about Sweden is hilarious. Sweden has more virus and death per capita than the US. Duh, which country’s plan do you think is working better?
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As I have explained to another poster, I do not consider this to be an advocacy topic. I'm therefore interested in comparing results from different approaches. In the case of Sweden, we won't be able to draw a conclusion for some time. Their strategy aims at a sustainable solution, i.e. no second wave. If there is a second wave elsewhere, and Sweden sails on unscathed then there is serious room to rethink strategy. If not, then the Swedes will have provided us all with a negative lesson at their own expense. Meanwhile:

[h=2]Governments Do Not Control Viruses[/h][FONT=&quot]Posted on May 1, 2020 by tonyheller[/FONT]
Everybody follows the same shaped curve, no matter what approach they take. Countries which did a better job isolating seniors have lower death counts. Spain, Italy, France and the UK have draconian lockdowns. Sweden has schools, restaurants and bars open, and the result there is exactly the same.
 
bluesmoke said:
NY and CA are not opening up to the extent the red states are that you can prove. You won’t provide that evidence I asked of you. Typical MR, not able to back up your own word. Your word, and claim, is worthless.

Trump is doing everything he can to get states to reopen. You and everybody else on the planet knows that. He’s finally using the DPA, but for the wrong reason, to force meat processors to stay open, even though they have a 40% infection rate. Trump criticizing the GA gov was a rare and unique instance. He has many times criticized state guidelines being too strict and has spoken in support of protesting state guidelines. All facts.
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Michigan is a great example. There is a huge problem in the Detroit area but the governor wants to impose strict measures on the whole entire state.
 
Jack Hays said:
As I have explained to another poster, I do not consider this to be an advocacy topic. I'm therefore interested in comparing results from different approaches. In the case of Sweden, we won't be able to draw a conclusion for some time. Their strategy aims at a sustainable solution, i.e. no second wave. If there is a second wave elsewhere, and Sweden sails on unscathed then there is serious room to rethink strategy. If not, then the Swedes will have provided us all with a negative lesson at their own expense.
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Ah, good old Jack, still defending the Swedish death method, while not advocating it....good gawd. Jack, a second wave is often the result of either a virus mutating....or the further exposure of groups to a virus. Either way, NOT limiting exposure creates higher levels of deaths. The bottom line still remains, not having social distancing causes the virus to burn through a population, which is what you are witnessing in Sweden. Keep playing your fiddle.


Meanwhile:
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If the idiot you quoted doesn't understand (I'll wager you are the same) that that graph is in log scale. This language of "the curves have the same shape" is beyond stupid, a curve where the rate of deaths are doubling every two days versus one where it doubles every week has everything to do with not overloading your health care system....to the point where your doctors and nurses are not getting wiped out by the disease itself...or committing suicide.
 
joko104 said:
OMG! OVER 15,000,000 Americans have died of covid-19!!!
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The fatality rate is the number of corona deaths as a % of total virus cases. As of 4/30/20, there are 63,856 deaths divided among 1,095,023 cases = 5.8% which is higher than what I said before because, like I said, the rate is climbing. Do you acknowledge that fact?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Ah, good old Jack, still defending the Swedish death method, while not advocating it....good gawd. Jack, a second wave is often the result of either a virus mutating....or the further exposure of groups to a virus. Either way, NOT limiting exposure creates higher levels of deaths. The bottom line still remains, not having social distancing causes the virus to burn through a population, which is what you are witnessing in Sweden. Keep playing your fiddle.


If the idiot you quoted doesn't understand (I'll wager you are the same) that that graph is in log scale. This language of "the curves have the same shape" is beyond stupid, a curve where the rate of deaths are doubling every two days versus one where it doubles every week has everything to do with not overloading your health care system....to the point where your doctors and nurses are not getting wiped out by the disease itself...or committing suicide.
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I'm uninterested in rants.
 
bluesmoke said:
The fatality rate is the number of corona deaths as a % of total virus cases. As of 4/30/20, there are 63,856 deaths divided among 1,095,023 cases = 5.8% which is higher than what I said before because, like I said, the rate is climbing. Do you acknowledge that fact?
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Of course not. The only people tested for the most part are people with serious symptoms. Most people have little to no symptoms and are not tested.

It would be no different that adding up the total number of people injured in car accidents enough to go to the hospital and dividing it by the number that die - and then claiming the death rate for driving a car is 5% per year! That's 17,000,000 Americans killed each year in automobile accidents! OMG!!!

Since the number of people infected with covid-19 is unknown, it is equally unknown what any lethality percentage it. That is blantantly obvious.
 
Jack Hays said:
Nope. You will find no post where I advocate any approach. Mrs. Hays and I adhere to social distancing.
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You are undercutting your own point, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth, you are promoting a policy by Sweden....that you are not personally following. Stop defending a policy you do follow.
 
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