South Korea/Japan will likely start going nuclear...maybe Taiwan/Australia
Umm....he went from law student to "community organizer" to politician. He's never been anything BUT a layabout.
As for his presumed brilliance--if he's so brilliant why does he make such stupid mistakes?
When it comes to nuclear weapons, it is without a doubt. What makes you think that the World would let an unprovoked (or frankly even provoked) nuclear attack go without punishment?
That I seriously doubt. China won't use military. It will, as it is now, use economic power to simply force Taiwan to accept unification. Chinese FDI into Taiwan is massive and growing. China will simply wage economic warfare and bring Taiwan to its knees without firing a shot. The military spending is more geared towards relations with US and Russia. Besides, China knows that to take Taiwan, it will either have to take massive casualties or reduce the islands to rubble, neither of which is acceptable especially given the economic warfare alternative that is relatively cheap.
The flaw in your argument is you think conventional warfare is the same as nuclear warfare. We didn't let Saddam hold Kuwait with purely conventional. what makes you think that North Korea knows it can get away with a nuclear strike?
That and the cost of invading to the benefits are tiny. An invasion and disposal of Regime would result in millions of refugees into both China and South Korea. The economic impact would be massive upon both countries as would the reconstruction of North Korea. And even if North Korea didn't have nukes, no one frankly gives a **** enough to invade.
Again, you make the fatal flaw of assuming that nuclear war is the same as conventional war. The discussion here was as evident from the first post about the use of nuclear weapons in North Korea and how North Korea has uses other than actually using the weapon.
Who said anything about a nuclear attack? It will almost certainly be conventional.
Yea, China is drastically increasing the size of their blue water navy and their aerial denial capacity so that they can overwhelm Taiwan with their economy.
Dude, they've been doing their damndest to overcome our air/sea superiority in that region for years, and they're starting to succeed.
Again, neither I nor anyone else assumed that NK would use their nukes first. They're there for MAD purposes.
If the benefits are so tiny, then why is the DMZ so heavily populated?
For the third time, nobody is talking about nuclear war. The nukes are there to serve as a deterrent. The military action will be conventional.
North Korea and North VietNam are very similar in Communist growing up. They only want to control the world by dirty things such as nuclear weapon, fake money, sex and drugs selling. If you want to get troubles then touch North Korea and North VietNam.
I think they are foxier than Iran or Taliban in killing American and other freedom countries. They may make another 119 problem to American for sure. Especially, Communist North VietNam is the most liars in the world. They smile to you outside but inside, they are keeping many knives and ready kill you !
First and second pages of the thread. Notice I replied to Moon about the use of missiles in delivering the nuclear weapons. Moon replied to B L Zeebub who said this: "He has no missiles with the capabilities to deliver a nuke!"
Thus the whole discussion was revolving around usage of nuclear weapons. I suspect neither you nor Celticlord read the first page. This is probably one of the few threads where one or two posts provided the entire context and missing that entirely screws up any other future posts.
Why blow them up when you can take them economically without firing a shot?
Eh. Maybe. And much of that due to theft of technology. Still, China is far more likely to economically take over Taiwan rather than by force. And what can the US do when Taiwan votes to join China because they have it by its economic balls? Nothing, that's what and China knows it. It can avoid war simply by large amounts of investment.
Incorrect. The DMZ itself is empty. What is heavily populated is the borders of the DMZ.
South Korea is Korea totally. They are similar to North Korea. South Korea love North Korea. It is true clearly as sight of the sun.
First, what differnce does it make if we kill every single man, woman, child, and farm animal in North Korea after a nuclear attack?You really think that we'd do nothing if North Korea used a nuclear weapon on someone?
Huh. I wasn't aware that the US was suppose to be the world's police. Didn't you bash Democrats for that idea?
The only one that makes any sense at all:Predictions of President Obama's reaction?
The only one that makes any sense at all:
Dismantle the NMD.
How does that make sense?
I read the entire thread. The fact that you're discussing one thing doesn't mean that nobody else can discuss something else that's directly related to the topic.
Because "taking over a country economically" isn't as easy as you make it sound?
If China could take over Taiwan so easily that way, can you explain why they're expending tens of billions on military equipment for which the only use is defeating US military in the region?
Don't be so hard on the lil shrub, he had more important and dangerous countries to focus on, like Iraq."You people better just stop doing that testing, ya hear?"
How is this Obama's fault? They acquired nukes under the lil shrub admin.In a stunning foreign policy victory for the Obama Administration, North Korea announced, shortly after the USGS reported a 4.7 magnitude disturbance, a successful underground nuclear test.
So far, the Obama administration is speechless.
Yet the ironic thing is that no one is ever going to invade them. The regime derives legitimacy from appearing strong in national defense yet in reality faces no actual enemies. In fact the biggest threat to North Korea is China as China could shut down the country in a week by closing off fuel and food.
They spend vast quantities of money as their people starve on defense against South Korea, the US and Japan (who will never invade) and yet the biggest existential threat to North Korea is the PRC's intolerance of what amounts to welfare. The world is a sick, sick joke.
The biggest problem with North Korean nukes is that the Conservatives in South Korea holding on to the views from the Korea War will want to get nukes. Then Japan will. And that's the beginning of an Asian Sh*t storm of everyone in the region trying to get nukes.
People also have these notions that an aggressive action by a nation will always be met with the destruction of that regime's power.
I don't have the slightest shred of doubt that China will make a move toward Taiwan at some point in the future. Does that mean they're going to lose control of their country? No, it means they're going to do it at a time when they believe the reward is worth the risk.
Similarly, countries like NK or Iran may very well take action that you or I would consider irrational, because they may view things differently.
The view you're espousing is a nice one, because it would mean that no belligerent nation would ever do something risky and out of line. I think that's too much to hope for.
Would were we supposed to do? Risking nuclear war over protecting the miserable government in Georgia wasn't worth it. The cold war may be over, but Russia can still destroy the world.
Lebanon was launching a full scale artillery attack on Israel. Why would prevent an ally from defending themselves?
If we weren't busy fighting 2 other wars, we might have been able to intervene. Furthermore, although the genocide in Darfur was truly horrific, it was an internal matter.
Since WW2, nobody has managed to perform any major land grabs, and there have been no big wars between real powers. That is pretty damn impressive. The world is probably more peaceful today than it ever has been since humans started civilization.
Right, because NK didn't acquire and test nukes during the lil shrub admin. :doh Geez the revisionism by the right is in full swing.And who pray tell, would remove them from power? The United States under the administration of President Obama, who has assured us that small counties are no threat? I hardly think so.
No, you are seeing the first fruits of our abandonment of asstertiveness on the global stage.
The following stages promise to be even more dramatic.
Thanks to the shrub foreign policy. :2wave:Saddam Hussein faced a determined and assertive United States. That is not the case for the regime in North Korea. Barring action from China, or Russia, they are as safe and secure as a babe in its mother's arms.
They may even win concessions and aid (tribute) from this exercise.
True, but he's out of office now so hopefully we can influence others to help us do something right this time.Sadly though, the United States cannot in good conscience instruct anyone on the evils of personality cults, not anymore.
We have elected a cult figure to the Presidency, who would not have been hired to run a discount shoe store.
:rofl we reacted strongly? What did we do that was so strong and manly, like a big bad cowboy with our six guns at the ready... :cowboy::shootYa'll are all missing the big picture here.
2006, NK fires a squib shot nuclear test. This was in reaction to the US stance towards the country at the time. We reacted strongly and got NK to shut it's program down.
Thanks lil shrub for inciting our enemies to work together for a nuclear weapons grab.Obama comes along and they decided to test him, so they fired that long ranged missile. Our response was weak.. nothing really happened. So they said "We're starting back up the Nuclear program" and now they've figured out how to do a crude A-bomb.
This was to get our attention.
They have not proven they can actually deliver the device, but NK, while rather insane, is not a country of suicidal maniacs. This was more to get "respect" and concessions from the US and others. No the real fear here, that they are working with, as they have in the past, Iran, and Iran is using NK to cover for it's own nuclear program.
Thanks to the shrub foreign policy. :2wave:
True, but he's out of office now so hopefully we can influence others to help us do something right this time.
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