Noam Chomsky "Every Post-War American President Should Be Hanged"

[rabbitcaebannog]

Really? How would you know? His videos are on youtube.



This is a lovely one. Just in the first minute he makes a complete fool himself. But watch all his videos. Look at what the man speaks.

As I said time and time again. When people use the phrase "the people control the means of production" that means "the state controls the means of production". Not you, the individual, not a group of individuals, the state. If you want individuals, as in, the actual people as a series of individuals, to own the means of production, you get that in capitalism.

He doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand what the words mean or tries to deflect that. It's a common problem with idiots. They don't know much.

he says he doesn't like state capitalism and the USSR was state capitalism, but that's what having the means of production controlled by the people means, it means the state, as the representative of the people, controls the means of production. The industry, the agriculture, everything.

North Korea is the epitome of communism. It's the best possible version of communism that has ever been implemented in the world. No other country managed or manages to do it as good as NK. Even the USSR, even maoist China. So if you want unrestricted, full on socialism and communism... go to North Korea.

An example of people owning production is a workers' cooperative where an entity is owned and controlled by their members, the people who work in them. That is not at all what state capitalism is.

 

[Sherman123]

Shhhhh........... Its just always "Hey, it was cold war so we can be huge assholes to the rest of the world!"

Which is a simplified version of a frank truth.

 

[BobbyO]

An example of people owning production is a workers' cooperative where an entity is owned and controlled by their members, the people who work in them. That is not at all what state capitalism is.

Well, a worker cooperative "controlled" by their members is an absurdity-- who controls the co-op is the consumers of whatever products the co-op sells. The workers can "own" it of course (providing the structures of society make that ownership of some meaning).

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Well, a worker cooperative "controlled" by their members is an absurdity-- who controls the co-op is the consumers of whatever products the co-op sells. The workers can "own" it of course (providing the structures of society make that ownership of some meaning).

:roll:

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Which is a simplified version of a frank truth.

Literally what you said. What you're trying to justify.

 

[apdst]

Video and his explanation on why he said this found here: [/FONT][/COLOR]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWQtzB9jE8

I agree up to a point. It is true that the victors get to write history. Its true that we overthrew many democratically elected leaders of countries, went on imperial ambitions, and propped up evil, brutal, right wing dictators.

There were few, if any democratically elected leaders. Either way, we over-threw governments that were cozied up to the commies and that's the perspective that one needs to view the post WW2 period in.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

There were few, if any democratically elected leaders. Either way, we over-threw governments that were cozied up to the commies and that's the perspective that one needs to view the post WW2 period in.

Again... Thats a bunch of bull**** as well. Looks like someone fell for the Cold War propaganda.

 

[apdst]

Again... Thats a bunch of bull**** as well. Looks like someone fell for the Cold War propaganda.

Ok, prove me wrong, sport!

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Ok, prove me wrong, sport!

Saying that Chomsky literally does. But ok heres a quick list
Salvador Allende. Chile. 1973
Patrice Lumumba. Congo. 1961
Joao Goulart. Brazil. 1964
Mohammed Mossadegh. Iran. 1953
Attempted to in Venezuela in 2002. Chavez
Shukri al-Quwatli. Syria. 1949.
Failed attempt in Italy. 1970. Golpe Borghese.

Those are just some few. Also our foreign policy of crushing pro democratic forces in various countries.

 

[apdst]

Saying that Chomsky literally does. But ok heres a quick list
Salvador Allende. Chile. 1973
Patrice Lumumba. Congo. 1961
Joao Goulart. Brazil. 1964
Mohammed Mossadegh. Iran. 1953
Attempted to in Venezuela in 2002. Chavez
Shukri al-Quwatli. Syria. 1949.
Failed attempt in Italy. 1970. Golpe Borghese.

Those are just some few. Also our foreign policy of crushing pro democratic forces in various countries.

Mossadegh wasn't democratically elected. He was selected by the parliament, then he dissolved the parliament.

Bottom line, though, is the commies were just as dangerous as the facists and whatever it took to defeat them was justified.

 

[Leo]

Noam Chomsky, often described as one of the world's leading intellectuals, is highly regarded by intellectual circles outside the United States, but does not subscribe to the concept of US supremacy in all things. Appears to be hated by a majority of conservative Americans - I wonder why?

John Pilger, an Australian journalist and author based in London, who uses factual information like live ammunition, is critical of Australian society - in particular its treatment of its indigenous people. He appears to be hated by most conservative Australians - I wonder, is there a pattern emerging here? :mrgreen:

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Mossadegh wasn't democratically elected.

I thinks someone needs to look how the Iranian system was set up back then....

He was selected by the parliament, then he dissolved the parliament.

He was appointed by the parliament when his party took the majority of seats.
He did not disolve parliament. A referendum did.

Bottom line, though, is the commies were just as dangerous as the facists and whatever it took to defeat them was justified.

None of those people were "commies".

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Noam Chomsky, often described as one of the world's leading intellectuals, is highly regarded by intellectual circles outside the United States, but does not subscribe to the concept of US supremacy in all things. Appears to be hated by a majority of conservative Americans - I wonder why?

John Pilger, an Australian journalist and author based in London, who uses factual information like live ammunition, is critical of Australian society - in particular its treatment of its indigenous people. He appears to be hated by most conservative Australians - I wonder, is there a pattern emerging here? :mrgreen:

C'mon Americans are "exceptional". We like to live with our heads in the sand.

 

[apdst]

I thinks someone needs to look how the Iranian system was set up back then....


He was appointed by the parliament when his party took the majority of seats.
He did not disolve parliament. A referendum did.


None of those people were "commies".

Mossadegh wasn't elected, thank you for realizing that. Hugo Chavez wasn't democratically elected, neither.

They were either commies, or cozied up to commies.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Mossadegh wasn't elected, thank you for realizing that.

This is like saying that no PM has ever been democratically elected that uses a proportional representation system.

Hugo Chavez wasn't democratically elected, neither.

Oh christ.

They were either commies,

Nope none of them where.

or cozied up to commies.

So what? So much for the "force of good".
Or how bout this. When Mossadegh nationalized oil in his country which was supported by his people, that pissed of the big oil companies, so he had to go.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Mossadegh wasn't elected, thank you for realizing that. Hugo Chavez wasn't democratically elected, neither.

They were either commies, or cozied up to commies.

Wanna bet the ones who think they were also thinks that Hitler was democratically elected?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Wanna bet the ones who think they were also thinks that Hitler was democratically elected?

Yes, the CIA overthrew the democratically government headed by Mosaddegh.

 

[apdst]

Yes, the CIA overthrew the democratically government headed by Mosaddegh.

You probably think the United States was all alone in it, too.