No worrying about guns at beaches, concerts, etc this summer in NJ

[BirdinHand]

So okay...your opinion is offset by mine. You like Coke, I like Pepsi. No big deal except you want to force people to abstain from Pepsi.

I'm not doing anything.

The state of NJ did.

 

[Rucker61]

Cherry pick? A list of the highest gun violence states and the lowest gun violence states is cherry picking?
Do you know what the term means?

We didn't see a list of the 10 lowest gun violence states.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Well I found more info on this decision. Sounds like the NJ state government didn't mention some things.

Third Circuit splits the baby in ruling on NJ carry laws

Acting New Jersey Attorney General Matthew Platkin is declaring victory after the Third Circuit Court of Appeals allowed many of New Jersey’s “sensitive places” to continue to be off...

bearingarms.com

1) Decision was 2-1. Not unamious.

2) The 2-1 decision by the Third Circuit panel does indeed allow the state to resume enforcing its prohibition on concealed carry in parks and zoos, libraries and museums, as well as restaurants that serve alcohol and the state’s casinos, but the panel did allow U.S. District Judge Renee Marie Bumb’s injunction to stand in a couple of very important areas. Carry bans in private property by default, vehicles, and film sets are still not enforced.

So, you can carry by default on private property (i.e. stores) in NJ with a permit.

 

[Grand Mal]

We didn't see a list of the 10 lowest gun violence states.

No, there's just four or five in that link.

Four. Massachusetts, Hawaii, New York and New Jersey. If you want the ten lowest you have to scroll to the graph showing all 50.
Gruelling, I know, but I can only do so much for you.

 

[ataraxia]

Only one town was discussed in the article and the question posed about "most towns" was never even addressed.

1. Dodge City, Kansas: Dodge City had an ordinance that prohibited the carrying of firearms within the city limits.
2. Tombstone, Arizona: In 1881, Tombstone enacted an ordinance known as the "Deadly Weapons Control Ordinance," which aimed to disarm individuals within the city limits.
3. Wichita, Kansas: In 1873, Wichita passed an ordinance forbidding the carrying of concealed weapons within the city limits. This was an attempt to curb violence and maintain order within the town.
4. Abilene, Kansas: Abilene, known for being an infamous cow town, implemented gun control measures in the late 1860s. The town council passed an ordinance that prohibited the carrying of firearms within city limits.
5. Caldwell, Kansas: Caldwell, another town in Kansas, had a similar ordinance to Abilene's. It forbade the carrying of firearms within city limits as a way to reduce violence and maintain peace.
6. Deadwood, South Dakota: Deadwood passed an ordinance in 1876 that required individuals to deposit their firearms with local law enforcement upon entering the town. This measure aimed to maintain order and prevent violence in the booming gold rush town.
7. Virginia City, Montana: In the late 1860s, Virginia City enacted an ordinance that prohibited the carrying of concealed weapons within city limits. The law was prompted by the town's rowdy and often lawless atmosphere.
8. Ellsworth, Kansas: Ellsworth implemented gun control measures in the late 1870s to address the frequent clashes and violence that occurred in the town. The regulations included restrictions on carrying concealed weapons and required individuals to check their firearms with local authorities.
9. Newton, Kansas: Newton, also known as "Bloody and Lawless Newton," passed an ordinance in 1872 that prohibited the carrying of firearms within city limits. The town was notorious for its lawlessness, and this regulation aimed to curb violence.
10. San Francisco, California: Although not strictly part of the "Wild West" in the traditional sense, San Francisco did implement gun control measures during the Gold Rush era. In 1855, the city enacted a law that prohibited the carrying of concealed weapons, reflecting concerns about public safety and maintaining order.

I can list more if you're interested.

 

[Sabre]

Suicides and legitimate self defense included in the numbers?

Of course they were, fact is firearms are used in half of all suicide deaths, three in every five gun deaths are suicides. Without guns the most common method was suffocation, mostly hanging.

 

[BirdinHand]

So, you can carry by default on private property (i.e. stores) in NJ with a permit.

Yeah, don’t worry - people can still take their guns to Walmart

 

[RF667799]

Cherry pick? A list of the highest gun violence states and the lowest gun violence states is cherry picking?
Do you know what the term means?

Now goalpost moving? In question was whether suicides can skew those rates.
Shame, shame.

 

[ataraxia]

The same single example that is trotted out again and again.

Nah, it's just the one most talked about because people have seen the movie. See post 155 for more examples. I can do even more if you like.

 

[RF667799]

I'm not doing anything.

The state of NJ did.

Then you disagree with what they did? It really sounded like you were a supporter.

Of course, at one time you sounded like you supported AR15 rifles as legitimate hunting and recreational firearms. Like last November, you were bragging about having multiples in your gun safes. (Also multiple.)

 

[Rucker61]

No, there's just four or five in that link.

Four. Massachusetts, Hawaii, New York and New Jersey. If you want the ten lowest you have to scroll to the graph showing all 50.
Gruelling, I know, but I can only do so much for you.

If we look at CDC numbers for just firearm homicide rates for 2021, New Jersey has a rate of 2.98. New York's rate is 3.09. States with lower firearm homicide rates than New Jersey and New York include North and South Dakota, Maine, New Hampshire, Utah, Wyoming, Nebraska, Montana, and Idaho.

WISQARS Fatal and Nonfatal Injury Reports

WISQARS Fatal and Nonfatal Injury Queries and Reports.

wisqars.cdc.gov

 

[Rucker61]

Nah, it's just the one most talked about because people have seen the movie. See post 155 for more examples. I can do even more if you like.

Were all of these pre-2010？

 

[RF667799]

Nah, it's just the one most talked about because people have seen the movie. See post 155 for more examples. I can do even more if you like.

In that reference you had a single example. How many were in your other reference? Didn’t I already explain it didn't support your statement anyway?

 

[Rucker61]

Of course they were, fact is firearms are used in half of all suicide deaths, three in every five gun deaths are suicides. Without guns the most common method was suffocation, mostly hanging.

So the latter method is considered rope violence?

 

[RF667799]

1. Dodge City, Kansas: Dodge City had an ordinance that prohibited the carrying of firearms within the city limits.
2. Tombstone, Arizona: In 1881, Tombstone enacted an ordinance known as the "Deadly Weapons Control Ordinance," which aimed to disarm individuals within the city limits.
3. Wichita, Kansas: In 1873, Wichita passed an ordinance forbidding the carrying of concealed weapons within the city limits. This was an attempt to curb violence and maintain order within the town.
4. Abilene, Kansas: Abilene, known for being an infamous cow town, implemented gun control measures in the late 1860s. The town council passed an ordinance that prohibited the carrying of firearms within city limits.
5. Caldwell, Kansas: Caldwell, another town in Kansas, had a similar ordinance to Abilene's. It forbade the carrying of firearms within city limits as a way to reduce violence and maintain peace.
6. Deadwood, South Dakota: Deadwood passed an ordinance in 1876 that required individuals to deposit their firearms with local law enforcement upon entering the town. This measure aimed to maintain order and prevent violence in the booming gold rush town.
7. Virginia City, Montana: In the late 1860s, Virginia City enacted an ordinance that prohibited the carrying of concealed weapons within city limits. The law was prompted by the town's rowdy and often lawless atmosphere.
8. Ellsworth, Kansas: Ellsworth implemented gun control measures in the late 1870s to address the frequent clashes and violence that occurred in the town. The regulations included restrictions on carrying concealed weapons and required individuals to check their firearms with local authorities.
9. Newton, Kansas: Newton, also known as "Bloody and Lawless Newton," passed an ordinance in 1872 that prohibited the carrying of firearms within city limits. The town was notorious for its lawlessness, and this regulation aimed to curb violence.
10. San Francisco, California: Although not strictly part of the "Wild West" in the traditional sense, San Francisco did implement gun control measures during the Gold Rush era. In 1855, the city enacted a law that prohibited the carrying of concealed weapons, reflecting concerns about public safety and maintaining order.

I can list more if you're interested.

Wasn't Deadwood where "Wild Bill" was shot dead in 1876? While carrying his guns, himself?

 

[ataraxia]

Were all of these pre-2010？

Yes. We were talking about the wild west. You want to talk about the wild west AFTER 2010?

 

[Roadvirus]

A “win” for NJ’s strict gun control laws!

Appeals court reinstates N.J. ban on concealed weapons in public places - New Jersey Globe

One month after a federal judge blocked the enforcement of large parts of a concealed carry law signed by Gov. Phil Murphy last year, the Third Circuit

newjerseyglobe.com

NJ scores victory in federal court over concealed carry gun legislation

The federal court ruling will allow the state to enforce where concealed weapons can be carried in New Jersey.

www.northjersey.com

I’m glad I don’t have to worry about seeing idiots walking around everywhere with a gun on their hip this summer! Or have to think about if some idiot has left their gun unattended in their beach bag.

Bravo!

Uh huh.

I'm sure NJ's criminal element will obey those rules.

 

[ataraxia]

Wasn't Deadwood where "Wild Bill" was shot dead in 1876? While carrying his guns, himself?

Dunno. Maybe. Why? Does that prove there were no gun laws in the wild west? Or just that we shouldn't ever have any laws because outlaws don't obey them anyway?

 

[RF667799]

So the latter method is considered rope violence?

Yes, and lynchings and suicides should all be considered as alike when determining public policy. Which means stringent rope control is the only solution.

Have other advanced countries implemented this?

 

[RF667799]

Dunno. Maybe. Why? Does that prove there were no gun laws in the wild west? Or just that we shouldn't ever have any laws because outlaws don't obey them anyway?

Isn't it part of your argument that such laws are effective in stopping murders?

 

[ataraxia]

Uh huh.

I'm sure NJ's criminal element will obey those rules.

Yes. That's why we should just stop with the "this is a nation of laws" nonsense. Criminals don't obey them anyway. We should all be free like in the jungle.

 

[ataraxia]

Isn't it part of your argument that such laws are effective in stopping murders?

Wow. You're right. Didn't think of that. If there is even one violation, that obviously means laws are useless.

 

[RF667799]

Wow. You're right. Didn't think of that. If there is even one violation, that obviously means laws are useless.

You're right. That's only two who weren't prevented from carrying, resulting in murder.

So how many were prevented?

 

[Rich2018]

Uh huh.

I'm sure NJ's criminal element will obey those rules.

Isn't the point that law enforcement now have the authority to address this ?

 

[Rucker61]

Dunno. Maybe. Why? Does that prove there were no gun laws in the wild west? Or just that we shouldn't ever have any laws because outlaws don't obey them anyway?

Were these local laws in place prior to 2010?