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No Hell & everyone saved.


Jesus is talking about the "Kingdom of God on earth as it is in Heaven" so it is NOT referring to going to Heaven but about being saved here and now in this life and NOT after death.

And very many people do not get the earthly salvation in this lifetime as they live and die within spiritual blindness and denials.

The examples of the Mahatma Gandhi and Mother Theresa are 2 who appeared to reach the Kingdom of God in their lifetime as that Biblical quote is referring to.

Many are called but few are chosen.

Goshin said:
If there is no hell of any kind and no one would go there anyway, why does Jesus speak of it and talk of a man going to hell? (Lazarus and the rich man).
Luke 16:19-31
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Jesus spoke in parables and that is not meant to be taken as some literal meaning.

Jesus explains that parable in the last verse 31 = "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

Jesus was not trying to frighten people but to teach people about life and about living.

Goshin said:
To prove that your interpretation of Scripture is correct, you must prove it with Scripture. If your hypothesis is solid, you should be able to refute these points using other scriptural references.

Can you?
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Some times we can use scripture to prove other text of scripture but that is not the only way.

In most cases as I have done in this posting - I am simply correcting the interpretation.

Goshin said:
There are many bible passages that seem to be in direct contradiction to this assertion.

2nd Peter 2:4

Revelations 1:18 and 20:13-14.
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In 2 Peter 2:4, For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

It tells that the "hell" means "chains of darkness" and not real fire as the Hell doctrine claims, and even more-so that verse tells that the Angels are "reserved unto judgment" which means the Angels are to be saved too on the Judgment Day.

Revelations 1:18, I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

In this text the word "hell" literally means the grave as in dead bodies, and having "the keys" means to open and unlock the grave and death and NOT souls burning in a fire - no.

Revelations 20:13, And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The word for "hell" in this text is obviously means the grave as in "hell delivered up the dead which were in them" see it says "them" instead of it because "them" means many graves, and it says in them are "the dead" as in dead DEAD dead bodies.

It is only human fear and religious confusion which sees some monster of a God burning people in those text when that is not what it says.

Revelations 20:14, And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Again it is saying "death" as in DEAD and not alive. It is talking about dying and not living forever in some mystical place called "Hell".
 
You know what - back in the Middle Ages war raged for over 100 year between Catholics/Protestants and all others over their differences in interpretation of the Bible - they all thought *we are right and you are wrong* - and were all willing to torture and slaughter over it.

Is it really worth all the drama and trouble?

I find my life as a non-believer to be stress free AND judgement-free. I can love others, care about them and be positive with them without religion getting in MY way. I can't say the same for them, though - religion consumes everything in their lives.
 


Hm, good one Auntie.

So, Mr Cusick, how do you get past that one?
 
Re: Reply

That won't help you with the New Testament, most of which was written in 'vulgar' Greek.

Difficulties arise because it's not one book....it's about 67 of them, depending on how you count....and the stage that the author was, how much scientific knowledge he had, when it was written.......Christ corrected several errors from the Old Testament.......so maybe sola scriptura isn't the wisest way to go, after all.
 
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Re: Reply

Difficulties arise because the Bible was written by countless scores of men all over nations - all over centuries. It was never written as one continuous book like it's a novel or something or in the same language to begin with.
 

Long ago people rejected the rule of God and they created governments to enforce the man-made laws and commandments and that unholy system has been in place ever after.

If we do not behave then we go to jail, or get executed by our fellow Man.

Heaven does not smite thee as our neighbors surely will.

The real religion from God and from the Bible is about blessings and about giving power to the children of God.
 
JP Cusick said:
The real religion from God and from the Bible is about blessings and about giving power to the children of God.
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According to what? The Bible?

You were trying to tell us the Bible is 'wrong.'

But you're using the Bible to prove *your* point. So it's conveniently *right* for your argument but *wrong* when someone else makes an argument with it?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I guess you and God have a different interpretation of the phrase "lake which burneth with fire and brimstone"

- God just smited your post, sorry.

I guess you didn't read those lines, there.
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Of course I read the whole thing, and I have read it many times in many different translations too.

We have to learn the correct meaning to such words instead of just believing tired old traditions.

In the Bible "fire" is a word that symbolizes the holy spirit and of love with God's ministers being flames of fire, link = Hebrews 1:7, and in the Bible "fire" is used for cleaning and for purifying but NOT for hurting people or for burning souls.

See 1 Corinthians 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

The person is "saved" by "fire", see text above.

Even the "lake" is defined in the Bible as being a group of people, Revelations 17:15.

Everything in the Bible is about the vast salvation of all of mankind with no one being left out.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
According to what? The Bible?

You were trying to tell us the Bible is 'wrong.'

But you're using the Bible to prove *your* point. So it's conveniently *right* for your argument but *wrong* when someone else makes an argument with it?
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I am not saying the Bible is wrong - no.

I am saying that people have wrongfully interpreted the Bible.

The people are wrong and not the Bible.
 
Everything in the Bible is about the vast salvation of all of mankind with no one being left out.
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No it's not.

Or am I suppose to just believe you instead of others (or my own eyes even) because you claim to have read it in multiple languages? You know - countless others (like my Dad) have read it in other languages as well and believe in it as it is written. . . so it's you against them.

But really - God could have been so kind to have avoided all these issues if he wanted to. . . maybe he enjoys the melee?

And if God "wrote" the Bible or "guided" people on what to write how could *they* have interpreted it wrong?
 
I think it's good that I don't live in Maryland.
 
DashingAmerican said:
I think it's good that I don't live in Maryland.
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Ironically - my Dad preached there for a while: Rockville, MD. It's pretty to live there - not necessarily over the top religious, though - but steeped in national history which is cool.
 

OK. Good answer.
 
JP Cusick said:
Heaven does not smite thee as our neighbors surely will.
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So what about all the murderers who got away with it? All the wife-slaughterers, children-drowners, depraved rapists and twisted doctors who were never brought to human-justice?

No justice even in the afterlife? That sort of just sucks a little - If I was religious then I'd like to think that Hitler's hurting for what he did.
 
The Baron said:
The OP is completely, totally and wholly un-biblical.
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Wake said:
You haven't even an understanding of God. If you did, you would understand His authority and respect that.

This is just another bait thread to PO religious people.
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Most people with a credible seminary or theology degree don't believe in a literal hell. Its been a belief almost entirely relegated to the uneducated, the fundamentalists, and the biblical literalists/inerrantists.


Taking the Fire Out of Hell
Pastor on Past Dirty Little Secret: I Didn
Denver Seminary > Blog


From a Christian:
 
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scourge99 said:
Most people with a credible seminary or theology degree don't believe in a literal hell. Its been a belief almost entirely relegated to the uneducated, the fundamentalists, and the biblical literalists/inerrantists.
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That's an extraordinary claim. I'd like to see you back it up. Your three links don't do any more than share what individuals blogging happen to believe. How do you know what most of those with a theology degree believe from these three links?

Answer: You don't, and you can't, but common sense suggests that you're mistaken...unless, of course, you're lumping all those who don't hold your views with the "uneducated, the fundamentalists, and literalists."
I guess that conveniently covers just about everybody, doesn't it? :lamo
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But really - God could have been so kind to have avoided all these issues if he wanted to. . . maybe he enjoys the melee?
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I do believe that God has been telling us the truth from the very beginning and still does today and it is just people who reject the truth as they reject God.

Even here on this thread I am informing you of the truth directly to your face and eyes and there is that.

Aunt Spiker said:
And if God "wrote" the Bible or "guided" people on what to write how could *they* have interpreted it wrong?
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The Bible and the old scriptures were to be translated and not interpreted.

There really is a huge big difference between translating and interpreting.

People in the past did interpret it wrong but now today we do have the ability to now do it right.

Ikari said:
OK. Good answer.
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Thank you.

And thank you very much for posting that too.


Galatians 6:7 = "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

No person in this world escapes their rightful consequences.

Murderers, rapist, violent people live awful lives of inhumanity and none of them escapes their own action or their own life sentence.

Adolf Hitler did not stand alone, and he lived to see his great empire fall into ruin, and Hitler watched his wife die, and then had to slaughter his own life, so Hitler did not escape his own fate.

The idea of wanting to burn Hitler and burn other sinners in a flaming hell-fire makes your self as evil as he was, because that cruelty is in your own heart.


I find that many if not most of the Pastors and Ministers and Priest do know such truths and they know that their congregations will not accept the truths if they do preach it from their pulpit.

The same people who believe in burning human being forever in a literal "hell" will have no conflict in excommunicating any Pastor or Priest or Minister who dares say otherwise.
 

I don't believe in a hell, either. What you are speaking of is called Universalism. It's been around since early Christianity.
 
nota bene said:
That's an extraordinary claim. I'd like to see you back it up. Your three links don't do any more than share what individuals blogging happen to believe.
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The links are not all bloggers. These are theology and seminary graduates who explain the basis for their beliefs. Its but a few examples which demonstrate what I have said. Its not some fringe belief. Its the standard in educated circles. (The non-literal hell part is)

nota bene said:
How do you know what most of those with a theology degree believe from these three links?
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Go talk to people who HAVE a seminary or theology degree from a credible institution!! Preferably someone with a masters.


nota bene said:
Answer: You don't, and you can't, but common sense suggests that you're mistaken
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So you think im wrong because your "common sense" tells you otherwise. God forbid you actual look into the matter.

nota bene said:
...unless, of course, you're lumping all those who don't hold your views with the "uneducated, the fundamentalists, and literalists."
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Its not my view. Im not a Christian.

And even if I was a christian this is still a stupid argument.


nota bene said:
I guess that conveniently covers just about everybody, doesn't it? :lamo
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That you think Christianity is completely encompassed by the uneducated, the fundamentalists, and the biblical literalists/inerrantists, indicates just how ignorant you are on this subject. It also explains why you disagree.
 
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Has anyone here actually recieved the Holy Ghost and speaks in tongues?
 

This is exactly the mindset I was referring to in post #27 - the mentality that "you are wrong about your interpretation and/or translation of your bible and we are right"
 
It kinda freaks me out how vehemently folks in this thread require that an all-forgiving and all-loving god has decided to eternally torture most people in a pit of fire. Seriously? There's no reason to believe in god without demons and hell and punishment? The universe couldn't actually be a good place? That's really unfortunate that some people have to suffer in order for others to be righteous. In fact, that's monstrous and fairly sadistic. I would think that those who want to defend god and religions would embrace a positive outlook like this, instead of focusing on a theology based on pain and misery.

By now you all know me as a pretty sincere atheist, but a god who's not judgmental, who actually acts with love and doesn't care about enforcing silly rules... I could almost get behind that. That's not too bad a god... Still don't think there is one, but if I'm wrong, I'd rather JP be the one who's right.
 
JP Cusick said:
I find that many if not most of the Pastors and Ministers and Priest do know such truths and they know that their congregations will not accept the truths if they do preach it from their pulpit.
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Keep in mind that pastors and priests deal mostly with a lay crowd. People who have little or no religious education.





JP Cusick said:
The same people who believe in burning human being forever in a literal "hell" will have no conflict in excommunicating any Pastor or Priest or Minister who dares say otherwise.
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In most large church communities this isn't the case. Like within the Catholic church. Its usually used only for those who are trying to stir up trouble.

Keep in mind that less organized and smaller churches have no education requirements. That is something some people here should consider when their pastor or preacher takes the podium next Sunday.
 

You're trying to put words into my mouth. So dishonest. But thank you for the advice. I understand now that all the "educated circles" are "in-the-know."
 
Re: Response.


So what are we supposed to be discussing? Did you have a question in there or what?
 
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