No 2A = A nation of lemmings cowering in their own homes

[Grand Mal]

You said one only has the rights given them. Whoever is giving something, must first possess it themself.

There's a difference between 'give' and 'allow'.
Do you have the right to do something your government doesn't allow?
You were born naked. Do you have the right to walk naked down the street?

It's true that your homicide rate is about twice that of the UK. What accounts for that other than the same things that account for the US rate being higher than yours?

Which has what to do with anything I've said here?
And please don't quote Lib to me pretending it is something I said.

 

[RF667799]

Nah. We just need to do what the right does - re-interpret how the words are interpreted. Easy squeezy.

You've been trying that for a good while. We're approaching half a billion guns.

 

[The Brad Dad]

You've been trying that for a good while. We're approaching half a billion guns.

No, we haven't tried it at all. And yeah, we see how much safer everyone is with more and more guns out there.

 

[RF667799]

There's a difference between 'give' and 'allow'.
Do you have the right to do something your government doesn't allow?
You were born naked. Do you have the right to walk naked down the street?

Silliness like that is where you arrive with the idea that rights are (hopefully) dispensed to those who lack them, by a group of people who possess them.

Don't tell me there is a difference between give and allow, while you're simultaneously telling me that rights are given by government people and defined by what they allow you to do without consequnce.

Which has what to do with anything I've said here?
And please don't quote Lib to me pretending it is something I said.

You want to rag on America. That's fine. I'll point out the Brits can rag on Canada just the same.

 

[RF667799]

No, we haven't tried it at all. And yeah, we see how much safer everyone is with more and more guns out there.

The homicide rate has trended down even as more and more guns are out there.

Maybe your politics is informed by irrational fear.

 

[The Brad Dad]

The homicide rate has trended down even as more and more guns are out there.

Maybe your politics is informed by irrational fear.

States with highest homicide rates are red. Politically and figuratively.

I'm not the one who needs a weapon to take a leak in a gas station.

 

[RF667799]

States with highest homicide rates are red. Politically and figuratively.

Goalpost move. So shallow too. There are "red states" with lower homicide rates.

I'm not the one who needs a weapon to take a leak in a gas station.

You're not the one who gets to determine the needs of other people either.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Goalpost move. .

Zero goalposts were moved, this is just your bog-standard response to virtually every post you can't counter with data. GOAL POST MOVED. You couldn't go near defending the math on dgu, so you're the one who then lied about guns lowering the national homicide rate. This is your argumentative quagmire. Enjoy the trip as you sink lower.

 

[Grand Mal]

Silliness like that is where you arrive with the idea that rights are (hopefully) dispensed to those who lack them, by a group of people who possess them.

Don't tell me there is a difference between give and allow, while you're simultaneously telling me that rights are given by government people and defined by what they allow you to do without consequnce.

Do you have the right to walk down the street naked? No? Why not?
Simple. It's because your government doesn't allow it. It's allowed in other places though.
There's lots of things your government doesn't allow. Germans, for example, are allowed to drive as fast as they want on an Autobahn. Is that then a right that you don't have?
I said that everyone in the world has the same degree of freedom- everyone is free to do whatever their government allows. You can't refute that.

You want to rag on America.

Where? Telling you that you keep a handgun out of fear means I'm 'ragging on America'?

That's fine. I'll point out the Brits can rag on Canada just the same.

 

[RF667799]

Zero goalposts were moved, this is just your bog-standard response to virtually every post you can't counter with data. GOAL POST MOVED. You couldn't go near defending the math on dgu, so you're the one who then lied about guns lowering the national homicide rate. This is your argumentative quagmire. Enjoy the trip as you sink lower.

Yes, I noted a fact you found inconvenient and so you started babbling about "red states".

If you can't quote me saying guns lowered the national homicide rate, you're lying. Making something up I didn't say, and claiming it's a lie.

 

[RF667799]

Do you have the right to walk down the street naked? No? Why not?
Simple. It's because your government doesn't allow it. It's allowed in other places though.

So rights are wholly defined by what is allowed by a ruling class.

That's a recipe for no rights at all, and no room to bitch about it.

There's lots of things your government doesn't allow. Germans, for example, are allowed to drive as fast as they want on an Autobahn. Is that then a right that you don't have?

Germans are not allowed to drive as fast as they want on the autobahn. There are limitations. So your example of a right fails.

I said that everyone in the world has the same degree of freedom- everyone is free to do whatever their government allows. You can't refute that.

North Koreans have the same degree of freedom as Canadians then. Since this is obviously not true, your argument fails.

Where? Telling you that you keep a handgun out of fear means I'm 'ragging on America'?

Me specifically?

 

[The Brad Dad]

Yes, I noted a fact you found inconvenient and so you started babbling about "red states".

inconvenient to what - if now you're claiming:

If you can't quote me saying guns lowered the national homicide rate, you're lying. Making something up I didn't say, and claiming it's a lie.

So you *weren't* saying guns lowered the homicide rate, I guess you offered it up randomly, unconnected to what we were discussing? Are you sure?

 

[InWalkedBud]

Defensive gun usage is a nonsense stat. IT's virtually anecdotal. There is no standard definition for the stat, it varies from study to study because it's not a real stat.

Defensive gun usage question: Have you ever used a fire arm in defense?
Answer: Yes.

And that's it; That's how its compiled...

Obama's CDC & FBI were peddling "nonsense." And you can show that, of course (not) lol.

In the meantime, I note you ducked my previous question. Don't you wish staff like my daughter & her colleagues had been onsite at Uvalde? Or Columbine, VA Tech, Sandy Hook, Parkland, et al? If not, why?

 

[RF667799]

inconvenient to what - if now you're claiming:



So you *weren't* saying guns lowered the homicide rate, I guess you offered it up randomly, unconnected to what we were discussing? Are you sure?

Unless you can quote me saying the greater number of guns is responsible for the declining homicide rate, you were lying when you claimed I said that guns lowered the national homicide rate.

I just observed that the number of guns has gone up while the homicide rate has declined. Unlike others, I don't believe guns have agency and can be responsible for intentional acts of humans.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Obama's CDC & FBI were peddling "nonsense." And you can show that, of course (not) lol.

In the meantime, I note you ducked my previous question. Don't you wish staff like my daughter & her colleagues had been onsite at Uvalde? Or Columbine, VA Tech, Sandy Hook, Parkland, et al? If not, why?

I did. You're ducking what I said about DGU's because you know I'm right. You think invoking OBAMA against a lib means something. Do better.

I didn't duck anything, so I don't know what you mean. I have no idea who your daughter is, if she's any good at what she does, or why I should take it on blind faith that she'd be any better at her job than professional law enforcement officers armed to the teeth. I don't have to share in your fantasies about life, just argue with you on a message board. The former is your burden.

 

[hecatmoggie]

"They could be armed. They could be high on drugs.

impossible .... both are illegal

 

[The Brad Dad]

Unless you can quote me saying the greater number of guns is responsible for the declining homicide rate, you were lying when you claimed I said that guns lowered the national homicide rate.

I just observed that the number of guns has gone up while the homicide rate has declined. Unlike others, I don't believe guns have agency and can be responsible for intentional acts of humans.

So then I don't know why your "fact" would be inconvenient to my argument.

 

[The Brad Dad]

"They could be armed. They could be high on drugs.

impossible .... both are illegal

Then I guess it's futile to enforce any laws if people are just gonna break them.

 

[RF667799]

No, we haven't tried it at all. And yeah, we see how much safer everyone is with more and more guns out there.

The homicide rate has trended down even as more and more guns are out there.

Maybe your politics is informed by irrational fear.

The goalpost move from national homicide rate to partisan "red state" babble follows:

States with highest homicide rates are red. Politically and figuratively.

I'm not the one who needs a weapon to take a leak in a gas station.

Goalpost move is noted and refuted:

Goalpost move. So shallow too. There are "red states" with lower homicide rates.



You're not the one who gets to determine the needs of other people either.

The lie follows:

Zero goalposts were moved, this is just your bog-standard response to virtually every post you can't counter with data. GOAL POST MOVED. You couldn't go near defending the math on dgu, so you're the one who then lied about guns lowering the national homicide rate. This is your argumentative quagmire. Enjoy the trip as you sink lower.

The lie is noted:

Yes, I noted a fact you found inconvenient and so you started babbling about "red states".

If you can't quote me saying guns lowered the national homicide rate, you're lying. Making something up I didn't say, and claiming it's a lie.

 

[RF667799]

So then I don't know why your "fact" would be inconvenient to my argument.

You wrote: And yeah, we see how much safer everyone is with more and more guns out there.

You have an alternate meaning for that other than the idea more guns cause less safety?

 

[The Brad Dad]

The goalpost move from national homicide rate to partisan "red state" babble follows

You tried to argue guns created a drop in homicides, realized you couldn't make the argument, so bailed. Still waiting for you to explain how your "fact" was inconvenient to my argument if you weren't arguing that guns created the drop.

You want to argue this stuff *so* badly, but...

 

[hecatmoggie]

Then I guess it's futile to enforce any laws if people are just gonna break them.

said nobody ever

but

since we can agree there will always be criminals ... self defense is a huge Right granted by the Constitution

 

[The Brad Dad]

You wrote: And yeah, we see how much safer everyone is with more and more guns out there.

You have an alternate meaning for that other than the idea more guns cause less safety?

Yes, that's my stance. Your stance that more guns created a drop in homicides you have both backed and backpedaled from just within the last few posts. Let us know when you land on your version.

 

[bomberfox]

Goalpost move. So shallow too. There are "red states" with lower homicide rates.



You're not the one who gets to determine the needs of other people either.

If ya want to know why i reject this gun culture the op is a splendid example of why.

 

[The Brad Dad]

said nobody ever

You just said it.