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NIST's Fraudulent Report on the Collapse of WTC7 on 9/11 [W:2152,2510]

If you mean wrong about (elements within) the US government, there's not a chance on earth I'm wrong. All one needs to know from the historical record, even without the collapses and the many other tricks, is that it did NOTHING to prevent or stop the terrorist attacks from fulfilling its full course. Anyone who doesn't recognize that as a deliberate STAND DOWN is a blithering gullible fool. That alone is criminal complicity to a massive terrorist act. And to put the proverbial cherry on the cake, not one single person was held responsible and those who were responsible were given promotions, for a job well done I suppose.

So you are more in the LIHOP than the MIHOP category then?

I'd like to clarify something though. It seems to me you are admitting here that 9/11 was indeed a terrorist attack, albeit one that the U.S. government or elements within it allowed to happen. OK then. So if 9/11 was a terrorist attack, why all the silly claims about CD at 7 World Trade? Why carry on about 7 World Trade at all since it was not a target of the terrorists, was otherwise unknown, unimportant and uninteresting and is really just a footnote to the attacks as a whole?
 
So you are more in the LIHOP than the MIHOP category then?

I'd like to clarify something though. It seems to me you are admitting here that 9/11 was indeed a terrorist attack, albeit one that the U.S. government or elements within it allowed to happen. OK then. So if 9/11 was a terrorist attack, why all the silly claims about CD at 7 World Trade? Why carry on about 7 World Trade at all since it was not a target of the terrorists, was otherwise unknown, unimportant and uninteresting and is really just a footnote to the attacks as a whole?

Good questions.

Still waiting for a great explanation on how the CD was not distrupted on WTC1&2 by the plane crash and fires. Why risk the crash as the coverup if the buildings were already wired?
 
Suppose, just suppose you're wrong. What then?

A much more important question you should be asking is suppose you're wrong? Did you ever ask yourself that? I think that should be much more relevant to you then what I believe or not.
 
A much more important question you should be asking is suppose you're wrong? Did you ever ask yourself that? I think that should be much more relevant to you then what I believe or not.

Are you dodging the question again Bob? I'm just trying to get a handle on where you are coming from.
 
So you are more in the LIHOP than the MIHOP category then?

I'd like to clarify something though. It seems to me you are admitting here that 9/11 was indeed a terrorist attack, albeit one that the U.S. government or elements within it allowed to happen. OK then. So if 9/11 was a terrorist attack, why all the silly claims about CD at 7 World Trade? Why carry on about 7 World Trade at all since it was not a target of the terrorists, was otherwise unknown, unimportant and uninteresting and is really just a footnote to the attacks as a whole?

yeh it reminds us of operation northwoods where the us government wanted to wage war against and attack its citizens
 
So you are more in the LIHOP than the MIHOP category then?

I'm in the category of those who want the truth about 9/11. So far, all we have are theories. LIHOP is not much different than MIHOP, don't you think? One sort of leads to the other.

It seems to me you are admitting here that 9/11 was indeed a terrorist attack, albeit one that the U.S. government or elements within it allowed to happen.

It was a terrorist attack, there's no question about that. What we don't know is who are all the terrorists who were involved.

So if 9/11 was a terrorist attack, why all the silly claims about CD at 7 World Trade? Why carry on about 7 World Trade at all since it was not a target of the terrorists, was otherwise unknown, unimportant and uninteresting and is really just a footnote to the attacks as a whole?

What are you talking about? There's nothing silly about CD claims, those are the most plausible theories outside of miracles. We just don't know all the dirty details. Terrorists come in sorts of flavors, the most dangerous kind being domestic ones.
 
Are you dodging the question again Bob? I'm just trying to get a handle on where you are coming from.

Are you? You didn't answer (not that I really care). Why do you care more about me than about yourself?
 
I'm in the category of those who want the truth about 9/11. So far, all we have are theories. LIHOP is not much different than MIHOP, don't you think? One sort of leads to the other.

It was a terrorist attack, there's no question about that. What we don't know is who are all the terrorists who were involved.

What are you talking about? There's nothing silly about CD claims, those are the most plausible theories outside of miracles. We just don't know all the dirty details. Terrorists come in sorts of flavors, the most dangerous kind being domestic ones.

One, you have been given the truth. You reject it.

Two, we DO know who did it. 19 Bad Muslims with the backing and support of Al Qaeda.

Three, yes, they are silly. 13 years later and NO ONE has yet come up with an intelligent theory of how it was carried out, the explosives used,etc. Note I said intelligent theory.
 
Do you ever post anything besides utter nonsense?

One, you have been given the truth. You reject it.

Government truth is an oxymoron. Rejecting it is a knee jerk reaction with me.

Two, we DO know who did it.

We meaning you of course. Why is it some people here believe they speak for everyone? You think you know who did it because you believe in government truth. No reason to look elsewhere.

19 Bad Muslims with the backing and support of Al Qaeda.

If they did it was also with the backing and support of the US government.

Three, yes, they are silly. 13 years later and NO ONE has yet come up with an intelligent theory of how it was carried out, the explosives used,etc. Note I said intelligent theory.

And you also believe in government truth, how intelligent is that?

Now maybe you understand why I usually don't bother responding to your silly posts. Or then again, maybe not.
 
Do you ever post anything besides utter nonsense?


Starting out with an ad hom.....

Government truth is an oxymoron. Rejecting it is a knee jerk reaction with me.


Did I say "Government truth"? No. Dishonestly putting words in my mouth?

Truth. Truth is truth. No one "owns" the truth.

Truth is backed up by facts, evidence, science, etc.

Truth IS NOT out-of-context quotes, accusation, unsubstantiated claims or cries of fraud.

We meaning you of course. Why is it some people here believe they speak for everyone? You think you know who did it because you believe in government truth. No reason to look elsewhere.


We meaning the vast majority who cared enough to actually look into to who, where and why of 9/11.

Did or did not 19 Bad Muslims hijack airliners and crash them. Yes? No?

If they did it was also with the backing and support of the US government.


What "If"? Did they or did they not?

EVIDENCE shows they did.

And you have an interesting ACCUSATION. Accusation is not truth. Accusation without evidence falls under the libel/slander laws in many areas if I am not mistaken.

Do yo have EVIDENCE the operation required government intervention?

And you also believe in government truth, how intelligent is that?

How intelligent is it to keep stating "government truth"?

Truth is truth. Sorry you cannot grasp that concept. You are so frightened by the big, bad government you are blinded to the truth.

Look, I get it. You can't respond intelligently so you must lash out. It happens. and yes, I know it is an ad hom. Sauce for the goose.

Show me an INTELLIGENT counter theory to what the "government truth" is.

Now maybe you understand why I usually don't bother responding to your silly posts. Or then again, maybe not.

And finish with an ad hom. How "truther" of you.
 
I'm in the category of those who want the truth about 9/11. So far, all we have are theories. LIHOP is not much different than MIHOP, don't you think? One sort of leads to the other.

Different enough. Certainly the level of active involvement in MIHOP needs to be substantially larger than LIHOP, the latter which could be as little as one step removed from bumbling incompetence.

It was a terrorist attack, there's no question about that. What we don't know is who are all the terrorists who were involved.

See, we agree on something. I do think though the major players are known or have been dealt with.

What are you talking about? There's nothing silly about CD claims, those are the most plausible theories outside of miracles. We just don't know all the dirty details. Terrorists come in sorts of flavors, the most dangerous kind being domestic ones.

There isn't a single CD claim that meets the requirements for prima facie or even comes close.
No plausible hypothesis for CD explaining the who/what/when/where/why/how has ever been presented.
There is no physical evidence supporting any form of CD, only claims of unexplained anomalies vaguely tied to CD by innuendo.
There is no CD scenario that has ever been presented AFAIK that is compatible with terrorist attack (MIHOP is required for CD claims).

IMHO, CD claims do not originate from the process of reasoning, of scientific investigation. CD claims come from the convergence of two different processes.
1). Personal incredulity: 'I can not believe airplanes can do that, therefore they didn't do that.' That the belief is wrong is not questioned, reality is instead denied.
2). Ideology: 'The government/Jews/NWO/Illuminati/Reptilians/etc,... are evil, therefore they must have done it.'

These two processes are usually mixed to varying degrees. Regardless, the process involved includes arriving at the conclusion based on pre-existing bias, then working to confirm that conclusion through careful selection of the evidence, choosing only that which fits or at least seems to fit, ignoring what doesn't or what contradicts the belief and inventing whatever is needed to fill in the gaps. In other words, it is working the problem backwards. I have never encountered a CD claim that was not framed in this fashion.

The supporting evidence is usually framed in the form of one or a few individual anomalies the proponent of CD can not explain, with tacked-on reversed burden of proof (eg; 'I say free-fall = CD, you prove me wrong'). What does nto happen is the problem is not worked in a scientific fashion of examining all of the evidence, sorting out which bits are relevant, putting the relevant bits together in order to reach an understanding - a testable hypothesis - that explains the event.

In the case of 7 World Trade Center one has the additional factor that any CD there would have been absolutely pointless and of no use to the plot while adding considerable unnecessary risk - a factor ignored by CD proponents no matter how often I bring it up. Invariably the conversation circles back around to first time in history type claims of incredulity.
 
If he is he has a limitation in this situation. He is a lawyer representing clients in this matter. He is not representing himself. And lawyer's ethics is distinctly different to the ethics of other professions. He is required to put forward the best case for his clients point of view - independent of his own belief system and values. Contrast to ethics for, say, engineers, where community interest comes before clients preference.

If a client required me as an engineer to design a bridge that is unsafe my ethical responsibility would be to serve the community interest and decline the assignment. (Or, strictly, the part of the assignment which required the unsafe aspects.) A lawyer in that sort of position is required to best serve his clients interest. How else would those accused of criminal actions get their case presented against the community representative AKA the prosecution?

And Pepper has a double problem with this one. His technical backing comes from Szamboti and Cole. That should be 'nuf said. I've debated both and they will not get far with any competent engineer acting for OIG or whatever agency they face. Their arguments rarely any better than the material we see posted here from the truther side.

He was a lawyer representing clients in his investigation of the MLK assassination. So what? In that case his clients were the King family who knew in their hearts that James Earl Ray was but a scapegoat and NOT the person who killed MLK. Their instincts were correct, and Pepper gathered what evidence could be gathered, and brought the ONLY trial ever regarding James Earl Ray. Under 2 different lawyers, he had taken guilty pleas in previous proceedings.

In the ONLY trial ever for Ray, brought by the King family and Pepper, after considering what evidence Pepper had gathered, rendered a NOT GUILTY verdict. Better late than never, truth and justice prevailed in the courtroom that day.

With luck, Pepper will prevail again in bringing truth out from under the rug where it has been swept by the government and media.
 
He was a lawyer representing clients in his investigation of the MLK assassination. So what? In that case his clients were the King family who knew in their hearts that James Earl Ray was but a scapegoat and NOT the person who killed MLK. Their instincts were correct, and Pepper gathered what evidence could be gathered, and staged a televised mock trial/publicity stunt for James Earl Ray. Under 2 different lawyers, he had taken guilty pleas in previous proceedings.

Fixed that for you.
 
I do think though the major players are known or have been dealt with.

Agree but they have yet to be dealt with. We're not talking about the same players, I'm sure.

There isn't a single CD claim that meets the requirements for prima facie or even comes close. yada, yada

Yeah thanks, I already know your opinion, you've repeated it ad nauseum. Next time, just post the links to the NIST Reports and the 9/11 Commission Report, it's quicker and serves the same purpose.
 
Agree but they have yet to be dealt with. We're not talking about the same players, I'm sure.

If you have a case against specific individual players drop the innuendo and bring it.

Yeah thanks, I already know your opinion, you've repeated it ad nauseum. Next time, just post the links to the NIST Reports and the 9/11 Commission Report, it's quicker and serves the same purpose.

No opinion expressed there. That no prima facie case for any sort of MHI beyond terror attack by hijacked commercial aircraft has ever been presented is fact. That has nothing to do with the 9/11 Commission or NIST. It does have everything to do with the utter failure of the 9/11 Truth Movement to make a plausible case for any of their many and often contradictory claims.

Possibly it may also have something to do with the fact there was clearly no MHI beyond Kamikaze terrorist/hijackers.

Once again, if you have a case, drop the innuendo and make it. NIST-picking is the proven road to epic fail. It has certainly done you no favors so far.
 
If you have a case against specific individual players drop the innuendo and bring it.

I don't have a case against anyone ... yet. I haven't filed a lawsuit and I'm not an attorney. Bring what? You don't have the stones to take up my challenge, you showed that quite vividly and I don't play your games, I already told you that. If I want to bring something, I'll bring it, that's my prerogative, not yours.

No opinion expressed there.

Wrong, nothing but the same tired opinion. I got it, you and the official narrative are like blood brothers. I told you, just post the links, it's easier, trust me on this.
 
I don't have a case against anyone ... yet. I haven't filed a lawsuit and I'm not an attorney. Bring what? You don't have the stones to take up my challenge, you showed that quite vividly and I don't play your games, I already told you that. If I want to bring something, I'll bring it, that's my prerogative, not yours.



Wrong, nothing but the same tired opinion. I got it, you and the official narrative are like blood brothers. I told you, just post the links, it's easier, trust me on this.

When you present an actual case, or something resembling a challenge (as opposed to just copying and pasting other peoples long-ago-debunked challenges that you clearly don't understand) then let the rest of us know. I have yet to feel challenged by anything you have ever posted.
 
Fixed that for you.
In this current matter Pepper is an hired "mouth" for the client AE911. He is obliged to say what they want him to say whether or not he personally agrees. AND without telling untruths which he knows to be untruths (cough cough...)

and what he has put in the letter is nothing more than the same nonsense Szamboti has been unsuccessfully trying to sell for several years. The difference being that Szamboti has been explicitly informed as to the untruths and therefore cannot use the "liar/delusion" cop outs. He is professionally dishonest. A much more stringent threshold requirement than proof of "liar". Deluded people may not be liars. They sure as eggs can be professional dishonest. Personal delusion is no defence when it can be proven that they have been informed of the true situation.
 
I don't have a case against anyone ... yet. I haven't filed a lawsuit and I'm not an attorney. Bring what? You don't have the stones to take up my challenge, you showed that quite vividly and I don't play your games, I already told you that. If I want to bring something, I'll bring it, that's my prerogative, not yours.

Bob..Stop the BS and name names.

Wrong, nothing but the same tired opinion. I got it, you and the official narrative are like blood brothers. I told you, just post the links, it's easier, trust me on this.


Here is a thought. Bring an intelligent and cogent counter-theory to the table.
 
I don't have a case against anyone ... yet. I haven't filed a lawsuit and I'm not an attorney. Bring what? You don't have the stones to take up my challenge, you showed that quite vividly and I don't play your games, I already told you that. If I want to bring something, I'll bring it, that's my prerogative, not yours.

Bob..Stop the BS and name names.

Wrong, nothing but the same tired opinion. I got it, you and the official narrative are like blood brothers. I told you, just post the links, it's easier, trust me on this.


Here is a thought. Bring an intelligent and cogent counter-theory to the table.

It is Bob's standard MO to be specific only when he is copying and pasting someone else's ideas. As soon as you ask him for his own opinion or for anything that requires him to think on his own he 'doesn't engage in speculation'.
 
It is Bob's standard MO to be specific only when he is copying and pasting someone else's ideas. As soon as you ask him for his own opinion or for anything that requires him to think on his own he 'doesn't engage in speculation'.

Ah........ Just Asking Questions.

It is interesting that for someone who can't quite make out what happened he is so adamant about NIST perpetrating fraud.
 
Ah........ Just Asking Questions.

It is interesting that for someone who can't quite make out what happened he is so adamant about NIST perpetrating fraud.

He knows exactly what happened,... he just can't/won't tell anyone (until someone feeds him the script and he hasn't found that on Youtube yet).
 
He knows exactly what happened,... he just can't/won't tell anyone (until someone feeds him the script and he hasn't found that on Youtube yet).

Yep here it is, this is exactly what happened and I'm certain you'll agree:

 
Yep here it is, this is exactly what happened and I'm certain you'll agree:



Time to first INACCURACY - 19 seconds. 19 men with boxcutters. No, boxcutters were not the only weapons
Time to next INACCURACY - 22 Seconds. In a cave complex - No he wasn't. Not on 9/11.

Why do "truthers" love videos full of inaccuracies?
 
Time to first INACCURACY - 19 seconds. 19 men with boxcutters. No, boxcutters were not the only weapons
Time to next INACCURACY - 22 Seconds. In a cave complex - No he wasn't. Not on 9/11.

Why do "truthers" love videos full of inaccuracies?

Oh you're taking this literally. Didn't you read the disclaimer where it says nothing about 9/11 is supposed to be taken literally?

Why do "truthers" love videos full of inaccuracies?

So you think you're a truther? You love the NIST report with all its inaccuracies, no?
 
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