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Oh hell yeah, there may well be underlying issues that lessened er ability to cope, but from the information we have it does look like what she suffered at school wasn't just teasing and thoughtless comments. I'm not saying we should prosecute teenagers just for being thoughtless and too quick to run off at the mouth, but what about when it isn't just teasing, or a scrap in the hall? What about when it's being tormented daily or attacked by a gang of people, or being thrown down the stairs, and sexually assaulted?
There's our normal high school turbulence, and then there's actual, agressive, undeserved bullying of a weaker person to the point where psychological or even physical harm can occur. I'm not sure we can do anyting about the first, but we damn well need to do more to tackle the second.
Both boys are charged with rape, all six older kids (4 girls, 2 boys) are charged with bodily injury in addition to other charges. Three 16yr olds are charged with "assault by means of a dangerous weapon." I presume all were friends, subsequently chiding her continuing after she was dead.
So when you ask, "maybe these kids didn't do much more than any other kids at any other school" - I gotta say, not likely.
since i don't know the details, i will withhold judgement. but stalking, physical assualt and sexual assualt aren't typical. if they are, something is very wrong at that school.The rape part may very well have been the root cause of her taking her own life.
Physically assaulted is just hyper-inflated code for "the kids were fighting".
since i don't know the details, i will withhold judgement. but stalking, physical assualt and sexual assualt aren't typical. if they are, something is very wrong at that school.
being hit in the head with a can of soda is serious, imo. it's too bad she couldn't figure out a way to fight back, and i hope the "kids" who did this to her are justly punished.
i think they have been, at least i hope so.I think other than the ones who sexually assaulted her, they should have certainly been expelled. Maybe even expulsed for the year.
i think they have been, at least i hope so.
The sexual assault is the only thing I have read that needs to be addressed, criminally. If she was thrown down stairs, then that should have been addressed, also.
The remainder of everything else I read, the school should have addressed with detentions and suspensions. Nothing happened to this girl that I haven't personally witnessed or suffered myself at one time or another. Kids go to school 5 days a week. I can assure you that 5 days a week, something similar happens at every school. (again, barring the sexual assault)
I just don't see criminal prosecution being a worthwhile pursuit for most of these kids. Yeah, the girl committed suicide and that's tragic. But her commiting suicide does not make these other kids criminals.
Can we just put some perspective on this?
First of all, hanging yourself in a closet is a very extreme reaction by a teenager to "Nobody likes me!!!"
At different times in our teenage lives, we all felt that way. And who hasn't been the object of some bullying at varying times? Really? Seriously? Who hasn't been party to or the object of some bullying?
It's part of growing up. It's not a very pleasant aspect of being a kid but it's just part and parcel of the maturing experience. Kids are mean. We all know this. No creature reverts to its primal sadistic state with such alacrity and glee as a kid outside the presence of adults. It's about pecking order and social dominance and just the fact that you are dealing with immature little snots. But it is what it is.
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe these kids didn't do much more than any other kids at any other school but this time their bullying is being magnified as a cause to keep from addressing that Phoebe may have had some compounding stresses or mental illness that caused her to take her own life?
Im not saying these particular kids should all be classed as criminals, but we as a society do ave a tendency to overlook what goes on in schools, even when it takes the form of acts whic would result in prosecution anywhere else.
If attacking someone outside the school grounds would get you arrested, then god knows the same should apply within the building. I'm not saying make "urt feelings" a criminal matter, but let's not overlook te downright rancid stuff as just part of being a teenager. I've seen, as a student at school and at the hospitals I work in, kids actually being injured on school grounds; broken bones, bruises, cuts, te whole malrakey. And no-one does anything, unless their parents are willing to raise some hell themselves.
But a couple bruises, a busted lip, whatever...that's all part of being a kid and growing up. And, if one kid can't handle that, it may just be Darwin calling. Sad as that sounds, it's probably the most likely scenario here.
Gina said:The harassment started in September and ended with her death on January 14th. Just look at the numbers involved, 4 girls and 2 boys have been charged and it sound like they were relentless in that it happened at school and online and text messages. Read the following statement from the DA. It was more than hurt feelings. She suffered tremendous cruelty.
So no, their bullying is not being blown out of proportion to cover up a problem with the victim, other than she was a victim and you like her tormentors are victimizing her again.
Ikari said:But things are getting out of hand, instead of a school yard scuffle, people turn to guns or gang beatings.
True. Because they are kids. Their little noodles aren't developed completely and they have almost zero impulse control, a difficult time finding empathy with those outside their "packs", and they haven't come to understand the resonating impact of their actions. That's why we have juvenile courts separate from adult courts...it's a biological thing and not something they can really help.
Jallman said:If it is, in fact, coming to grievous and permanent injury, then there should be some consequence on the criminal front. That goes beyond rancid teenage behavior.
But a couple bruises, a busted lip, whatever...that's all part of being a kid and growing up. And, if one kid can't handle that, it may just be Darwin calling. Sad as that sounds, it's probably the most likely scenario here.
I think any teacher witnessing the abuse (particularly the rape if that part is true) must face disciplinary actions if not legal (particularly the rape if that part is true) for this inaction.
The harassment started in September and ended with her death on January 14th. Just look at the numbers involved, 4 girls and 2 boys have been charged and it sound like they were relentless in that it happened at school and online and text messages. Read the following statement from the DA. It was more than hurt feelings. She suffered tremendous cruelty.
[Phoebe Prince, a new arrival at South Hadley High School from a tiny seaside hamlet in County Clare, was mercilessly tormented by a cadre of classmates later dubbed the "Mean Girls" by Massachusetts newspapers.
"The investigation revealed relentless activity directed towards Phoebe designed to humiliate her and to make it impossible for her to remain at school," said District Attorney Elizabeth Scheibel.
"The bullying for her became intolerable."
According to students, Phoebe was called "Irish slut" and "whore" on Twitter, Craigslist, Facebook and Formspring.
Her books were routinely knocked out of her hands, items were flung at her, her face was scribbled out of photographs on the school walls, and threatening text messages were sent to her cell phone.
Scheibel said she had drawn the ire of the "Mean Girls" by briefly dating a popular senior football player in her first weeks at the school.
Two boys were involved in the rape and the physical abuse was witnessed by teachers who did nothing.
Seven of the nine charged Monday are girls charged with a range of crimes, from criminal harassment to stalking to civil rights violations. A juvenile was charged with assault by means of a dangerous weapon - namely, the Red Bull can.
The two males, 17 and 18, are charged with statutory rape.
Unveiling the indictments Monday, Scheibel said numerous faculty members, staff members and administrators at South Hadley High School were aware of the bullying - some even witnessed physical abuse - and did nothing.
She said the investigation looked at whether the adults' failure to help Phoebe amounted to criminal behavior.
"In our opinion, it did not," she said. "Nevertheless, the actions or inactions of some adults at the school are troublesome."
Phoebe Prince, South Hadley High School's 'new girl,' driven to suicide by teenage cyber bullies
So no, their bullying is not being blown out of proportion to cover up a problem with the victim, other than she was a victim and you like her tormentors are victimizing her again.
My daily day in Highschool was being tormented daily that included being ignored by everyone or being hit physically or spit on by boys and girls. I rarely talked with kids because they'd normally brush off my attempts at conversation and I mean all the kids did that, the jocks, nerds, losers, etc. I had no one to talk with or hang with in HS, except for my Senior year a Bulgarian student moved to my school from his nation. And he and I would talk whenever possible.
Now after having endured that, I don't believe even after being raped that one should commit suicide. Or just because they are made fun off. I saw the picture of the girl and she was very pretty and I would have loved to known a girl so beautiful like her. But its a shame that she killed herself. Its hard the experiences I had while in school, and I still have difficulties trusting people but one thing i would never do is hurt myself or anyone else. And for those who say get over it because everyone gets made fun of. Their are instances where things are just more than being made fun of.
I honestly don't think a kid should have to handle physical violence as part and parcel of growing up. I don't think it confers any benefit in terms of strength or "toughness", and I don't think it should be in any way condoned. Kids are assholes, that's a fact of life. But as soon as you raise your hand to another person in an unprovoked attack, you're out of line, regardless of age. I'm not really sure like the idea of letting kids think that's not objectionable beaviour; seems like the kind of thing that, for some of them, may persist into adultood.
Yep. I fal to see why they should watch kids being beaten or hit without consequences.
I, for one, am glad they are prosecuting these young people for their criminal behavior. The school that they all attended should have taken strong action against them long before it came to this.
I think that young people should follow the same laws as adults. I think schools should not tolerate criminal activity on school grounds. I think the school officials should also, in some way, be called to task.
FOXNews.com - Nine Charged in Bullying of Massachusetts Teen Who Killed Herself
The level of disrespect tolerated in society grows as the number of young men who have suffered a punch in the mouth for showing disrespect decreases.
It seems there was a major break down in the school and parents on this issue. And as much as I don't like "bullying" laws because bullying is part of growing up as is learning to deal with it and defend yourself form it; in this specific case I think it's warranted. Maybe if these girls and boys do some time; they'll think differently about how the treat and interact with others.
Do you really think putting kids in the justice system over this is going to create more compassionate adults out of them?
Sure you know better than that.
IAnd it isn't that easy after a few months of dealing with kids like this. It is sort of thing you don't really grasp the entirety of what her life was like until you lived through it yourself.
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