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Next Car technology to take over Hydrogen

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ludin

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I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...
Hydrogen would be good if it can be stored in sufficient quantity.
Rooftop solar panels could, in theory keep the tank charged.
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...

Weren’t you extolling the nutritional value of McDonald’s in another thread? I would have thought that you would be onboard for methane powered everything.....:mrgreen:
 
longview said:
Hydrogen would be good if it can be stored in sufficient quantity.
Rooftop solar panels could, in theory keep the tank charged.
Click to expand...

Hydrogen stations need to be built and deployed, but i think it was MIT students that
were able to develop a new way and process to break down hydrogen using cheaper processes.
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...

China likes to be first in high profile developments, but that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in and of itself. I noticed that they had at least a mock-up of a rail gun mounted on a ship a year ago. I don't believe we've mounted one on a ship yet, but ours definitely works. It's just not ready for prime time yet. There are material problem with rail wear after repeated firings. That's as much of the problem as I'm technically able to understand and absorb, i.e., not much.

If hydrogen can be made commercially viable in vehicle propulsion, it's definitely the way to go. It's clean. Besides, given that water - the most abundant GHG by far - is the primary byproduct of combustion, the environmentalists will still have something to complain about.

I believe BMW made a hydrogen car a few years back - a prototype. It was astronomically expensive, but hopefully some of this will be applicable to their previous work. Of course, like every other new, vehicle based enterprise, cost and infrastructure are always significant considerations. Dictators (think Xi) can simply order that. We need viable markets to sustain such things.
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...

You can get 60-65% of a full charge at a Level 3 charge station if you're running low right now, more than enough.
Battery range anxiety is almost a thing of the past for the majority of users at this point, and in three more years it will be a distant memory.

That's not to say that H2 is not feasible but the infrastructure is every bit as embryonic at this stage, and the original Chinese page makes me laugh with all its talk of how "100 percent of the core components are produced with its own INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS for the first time".

Amazing, even incredulous how China is now beginning to make noises about "intellectual property rights" after almost four decades of pirating and extorting IP from everybody else. Why, even that web page itself doesn't provide facility to copy the text, so concerned they are about their precious IP.

And yet the page itself is very nearly science free and it reads like a North Korean news anchor waxing poetic and lyrical about Leader Kim.

Plug Power has indeed been making inroads into the LTL and consumer delivery markets and it's very promising.
Let's see if they can nudge prices down to the point where automotive could see gains and adoption.

But as we all know, in-house beats external supplier every single time in the automotive market where large systems are concerned.
The manufacturers are happy to let Dana build differentials but Dana lost out on the chance to expand into engine manufacturing in 1999 when they started making noises about getting together with engine builder Dart.
The proposed Dart/Dana partnership had hoped to snag a corner of the domestic small engine market with Chrysler but nothing ever went beyond a few meetings as Chrysler wanted it in house or Japanese sourced.
They made it clear that they were not interested in any domestically manufactured outside engine sources.

But of course, maybe a lot has changed and Plug Power might have chances that Dana never had, after all it is a different world than 1999.
So maybe you're right, maybe it's a foregone conclusion or a coin toss.
 
humbolt said:
China likes to be first in high profile developments, but that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot in and of itself. I noticed that they had at least a mock-up of a rail gun mounted on a ship a year ago. I don't believe we've mounted one on a ship yet, but ours definitely works. It's just not ready for prime time yet. There are material problem with rail wear after repeated firings. That's as much of the problem as I'm technically able to understand and absorb, i.e., not much.

If hydrogen can be made commercially viable in vehicle propulsion, it's definitely the way to go. It's clean. Besides, given that water - the most abundant GHG by far - is the primary byproduct of combustion, the environmentalists will still have something to complain about.

I believe BMW made a hydrogen car a few years back - a prototype. It was astronomically expensive, but hopefully some of this will be applicable to their previous work. Of course, like every other new, vehicle based enterprise, cost and infrastructure are always significant considerations. Dictators (think Xi) can simply order that. We need viable markets to sustain such things.
Click to expand...

BMW i Hydrogen NEXT Is A Fuel Cell X5 Planned For Production
they are rolling out a new one in 2022 or so.

so they think there is a viable market to come out with another one.
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...

Zeppelin.webp
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...

If it works and is safe, it's great. The byproduct of a hydrogen car is water.
 
PirateMk1 said:
That flame you see is NOT the hydrogen. Its the aluminum and magnesium doping on the fabric that is burning. Hydrogen is lighter than air and tends to burn blue.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Explain further. The whole time they have been stating the reason was because it was hydrogen.
 
ludin said:
Hydrogen stations need to be built and deployed, but i think it was MIT students that
were able to develop a new way and process to break down hydrogen using cheaper processes.
Click to expand...
It would be easier to build a simple steam reformer, to get a stream of hydrogen from gasoline or propane.
 
AProudLefty said:
View attachment 67272642
Click to expand...

Not even close, but nice try.

What caused Hindenburg fire? Retired NASA expert digs in
That’s when Bain noticed the plaque describing the Hindenburg disaster and the three words – “Its hydrogen exploded” – that set him on a controversial mission he’s still chasing nearly three decades later.

“I said, ‘No, no, no, there’s something wrong here,” said Bain, 81, of Suntree, about the explanation for what left 36 people dead.

“Hydrogen doesn’t explode.”

He said the covering, or envelope as it was called, had a butyl-based coating that was nonconductive, so when the electrical charge built up on the outside of the ship, it didn’t dissipate as it should have. That day, the electrical charge was greater because the Hindenburg was coming in for a higher landing than normal, Bain said. The charge ignited the fabric covering.

A 1937 letter from the Zeppelin company to the paint manufacturer expressed concerns, noting that tests showed the covering was “readily ignited by an electrostatic discharge.” Also testing in Germany in 1938 by the Wireless Telegraph and Atmospheric Electrical Experimental Station found the cause was “the poor conductivity of the aluminum paint coating on the outer skin.”

It helps to know what you are talking about before posting something like this.
 
longview said:
It would be easier to build a simple steam reformer, to get a stream of hydrogen from gasoline or propane.
Click to expand...

I mean the whole point of hydrogen is to get away from fossil fuels. I think they are still needed as some people still use them for heating, but yes
i think we could refine the gas and oil industry better if they captured the hydrogen from when they are drilling or refining.
 
ludin said:
Not even close, but nice try.

What caused Hindenburg fire? Retired NASA expert digs in
That’s when Bain noticed the plaque describing the Hindenburg disaster and the three words – “Its hydrogen exploded” – that set him on a controversial mission he’s still chasing nearly three decades later.

“I said, ‘No, no, no, there’s something wrong here,” said Bain, 81, of Suntree, about the explanation for what left 36 people dead.

“Hydrogen doesn’t explode.”

He said the covering, or envelope as it was called, had a butyl-based coating that was nonconductive, so when the electrical charge built up on the outside of the ship, it didn’t dissipate as it should have. That day, the electrical charge was greater because the Hindenburg was coming in for a higher landing than normal, Bain said. The charge ignited the fabric covering.

A 1937 letter from the Zeppelin company to the paint manufacturer expressed concerns, noting that tests showed the covering was “readily ignited by an electrostatic discharge.” Also testing in Germany in 1938 by the Wireless Telegraph and Atmospheric Electrical Experimental Station found the cause was “the poor conductivity of the aluminum paint coating on the outer skin.”

It helps to know what you are talking about before posting something like this.
Click to expand...

Ah so my humor worked and it educates people here? Good. Thank you. :thumbs:
 
ludin said:
I see the electric cars as a bridge between the next generation of cars to actually become viable and that is hydrogen based cars.
Battery based cars do not have the distance or the recharge rate that is good for distance driving.

New material could unlock potential for hydrogen powered vehicle revolution -- ScienceDaily
An international team of researchers has discovered a new material made from manganese hydride that would be used to make molecular sieves within fuel tanks - which store the hydrogen and work alongside fuel cells in a hydrogen powered 'system'. The material would enable the design of tanks that are far smaller, cheaper, more convenient and energy dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies, and significantly out-perform battery-powered vehicles

The chinese beat us to the market once again.
China: SinoHytec Launches its New Hydrogen Fuel Cell Engine - FuelCellsWorks

You can fully fuel a hydrogen car in 10 minutes or so which is way faster than the charging of a electric car.

https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2019/03/29/plug-power-new-hydrogen-fuel-cell-engine.html

this is the new waves of the future and where the money needs to go.

Musk can call it stupid but it is on it's way.
Click to expand...

Only a leftist would think to put wheels on the main component of a hydrogen bomb and call it a good thing. I'll pass on driving a hydrogen bomb capable of taking out a city block, thanks just the same.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
You can get 60-65% of a full charge at a Level 3 charge station if you're running low right now, more than enough.
Battery range anxiety is almost a thing of the past for the majority of users at this point, and in three more years it will be a distant memory.

That's not to say that H2 is not feasible but the infrastructure is every bit as embryonic at this stage, and the original Chinese page makes me laugh with all its talk of how "100 percent of the core components are produced with its own INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS for the first time".

Amazing, even incredulous how China is now beginning to make noises about "intellectual property rights" after almost four decades of pirating and extorting IP from everybody else. Why, even that web page itself doesn't provide facility to copy the text, so concerned they are about their precious IP.

And yet the page itself is very nearly science free and it reads like a North Korean news anchor waxing poetic and lyrical about Leader Kim.

Plug Power has indeed been making inroads into the LTL and consumer delivery markets and it's very promising.
Let's see if they can nudge prices down to the point where automotive could see gains and adoption.

But as we all know, in-house beats external supplier every single time in the automotive market where large systems are concerned.
The manufacturers are happy to let Dana build differentials but Dana lost out on the chance to expand into engine manufacturing in 1999 when they started making noises about getting together with engine builder Dart.
The proposed Dart/Dana partnership had hoped to snag a corner of the domestic small engine market with Chrysler but nothing ever went beyond a few meetings as Chrysler wanted it in house or Japanese sourced.
They made it clear that they were not interested in any domestically manufactured outside engine sources.

But of course, maybe a lot has changed and Plug Power might have chances that Dana never had, after all it is a different world than 1999.
So maybe you're right, maybe it's a foregone conclusion or a coin toss.
Click to expand...

All of those things are true.

Range anxiety exists only because people are used to the constant infrastructure of gasoline distribution.

The charging networks are being built at astounding rates, and ranges of the most popular electric cars have significantly increased.

If Musk’s bet on the future of battery technology turns out to be right, he will be the Rockefeller of the new age.

Hydrogen will require the same level of investment to build a fueling network. It lacks any synergy with the electric power industry.

But Tesla is where I’m going to put my money (as soon as Elon talks the stock down again).
 
ludin said:
I mean the whole point of hydrogen is to get away from fossil fuels. I think they are still needed as some people still use them for heating, but yes
i think we could refine the gas and oil industry better if they captured the hydrogen from when they are drilling or refining.
Click to expand...
Who said that gasoline or Propane are required to be fossil fuels?
Those fuels are simply the hydrogen containers, we can make them with atmospheric CO2, so that the fuels
weather used for hydrogen generation, or in existing vehicles, is carbon neutral.
 
TomFitz said:
All of those things are true.

Range anxiety exists only because people are used to the constant infrastructure of gasoline distribution.

The charging networks are being built at astounding rates, and ranges of the most popular electric cars have significantly increased.

If Musk’s bet on the future of battery technology turns out to be right, he will be the Rockefeller of the new age.

Hydrogen will require the same level of investment to build a fueling network. It lacks any synergy with the electric power industry.

But Tesla is where I’m going to put my money (as soon as Elon talks the stock down again).
Click to expand...

Electric vehicles will never catch on in Alaska. Cold and batteries are not good bed fellows. Even with modern car batteries, if you leave them sit unattended for more than 10 days during the Winter, you will be replacing that battery as it will be frozen solid and unable to carry a charge. You need to either keep an electric blanket around the battery to keep it warm, or remove it completely from the vehicle. Electric vehicles also lack the range necessary to live in Alaska.

Electric cars are nice toys for city critters living in southern cities that never get cold, but pretty much useless everywhere else. Electric cars also pollute far more than fossil fuel burning vehicles.
 
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