New York following same trajectory as South Africa

[Noodlegawd]

Would you like to demonstrate the mental gymnastics you just performed to reach that indefensible conclusion?

Right after you.

 

[Phys251]

Right after you.

Projection and denial. Good job. Don't stop.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Projection and denial. Good job. Don't stop.

Lol, this coming from the king of projection, as demonstrated by the very post we're discussing. Perhaps you'd understand a little better if you didn't have a nervous breakdown every time someone mentioned "natural immunity."

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

You are.

The mods can decide if a member making false claims against another is acceptable on this forum.

 

[Phys251]

Lol, this coming from the king of projection, as demonstrated by the very post we're discussing. Perhaps you'd understand a little better if you didn't have a nervous breakdown every time someone mentioned "natural immunity."

That's right, keep up those Olympics-level mental gymnastics. Be sure to throw in ad homs for added effect.

 

[Cardinal]

No, you just need to look at research just published by the CDC to say that natural immunity works.

Are you advocating getting "natural immunity" over vaccination? And if not, why would you feel the need to say this?

 

[Cardinal]

The only conclusion reachable is that you are purposely ignoring what I'm saying. Therefore I will spell it out for in a way that is even easier to understand.

Natural immunity is a thing.
There is a segment of our population who are choosing not to get vaccinated.
These people, upon catching COVID, will gain natural immunity for some period of time.
If the unvaxxed continue to exist, we all benefit from them surviving COVID and then existing with natural immunity instead of nothing at all.

Obviously the preferred method is that they get vaccinated. Your question is totally ridiculous and designed to dodge the very simple question I asked you. Statistically speaking, most people getting COVID, especially omicron, are not suffering from "several weeks of horrible illness or, worse, a month in a hospital bed..." You know this, I know this. Why would you pretend the binary choice is to get the vaccine or that?
I am pro-vaccine. I am vaccinated. But that does not mean I will ignore the science. I will continue to be as safe as possible while also understanding that current evidence suggests that reinfection with the virus that causes COVID-19 is uncommon in the 90 days after initial infection.
So, doubling down and being absolutely clear, what I see in that graph is a lot of people who just got natural immunity. Apparently what you see is the chance to go to the gym.

Don't be cute. The only people advocating "natural immunity" are antivaxxers, antimaskers or anti-mandaters (although these usually are the same group).

 

[fireflygmf]

How would you prefer to get your immunity?

a) Vaccination, or
b) Several weeks of horrible illness or, worse, a month in a hospital bed (assuming you survive), and possible loss of taste and smell, and possible long term organ damage.

Both roads lead to immunity. Which one sounds more appealing to you?

Based on your position, I expect you to burn 600 calories avoiding answering the question directly.

This is a very strange way to frame the argument. Hospitalization rates used to be 3-5% under Delta. It's about 1-2% with Omicron.

Your chart should read:

a) Vaccination
b) A few days of asymptomatic illness, or mild to moderate illness, or (around 1% chance) several weeks of horrible illness or, worse, a month in a hospital bed (assuming you survive), and possible loss of taste and smell, and possible long term organ damage

I chose vaccination because I consider a 1% chance of hospitalization a moderate and unnecessary risk, I just don't think it was fair to frame the either/or options in the way that you did, considering chances of the outcomes you were stating.

 

[fireflygmf]

Don't be cute. The only people advocating "natural immunity" are antivaxxers, antimaskers or anti-mandaters (although these usually are the same group).

False. I'm pro-vaccine. Both doses, and now boosted. I mask. I follow the restrictions. Yet, I also believe that natural immunity works. Not only that, but it has been shown to be superior to vaccine induced immunity. That's just fact. The CDC also just came out with a study saying as much.

I don't like it, since I didn't get COVID and I am only vaccinated, yet, that's what the data reveals. So we can either choose to believe the opposite of our adversaries and what is convenient for us, or we can just pursue objective truths and believe that.

Take your pick.

 

[Cardinal]

This is a very strange way to frame the argument. Hospitalization rates used to be 3-5% under Delta. It's about 1-2% with Omicron.

Your chart should read:

a) Vaccination
b) A few days of asymptomatic illness, or mild to moderate illness, or (around 1% chance) several weeks of horrible illness or, worse, a month in a hospital bed (assuming you survive), and possible loss of taste and smell, and possible long term organ damage

I chose vaccination because I consider a 1% chance of hospitalization a moderate and unnecessary risk, I just don't think it was fair to frame the either/or options in the way that you did, considering chances of the outcomes you were stating.

There is zero real world practical value in promoting "natural immunity." And reciting fortune cookie soundbites like "knowledge is power" isn't a real world practical value.

 

[fireflygmf]

There is zero real world practical value in promoting "natural immunity." And reciting fortune cookie soundbites like "knowledge is power" isn't a real world practical value.

Truth is truth, and there is significant real world practical value in promoting the truth.

 

[Cardinal]

Truth is truth, and there is significant real world practical value in promoting the truth.

Cool, so somebody opens a fortune cookies and it reads "Truth is truth." How does that guide somebody to take the vaccine before making the perfectly moronic decision to deliberately get infected first?

And that's a rhetorical question, because I saw your answer coming a thousand miles away, and you know that there is zero real world applicable value in promoting "natural immunity" unless you are, in fact, an antivaxxer. Or maybe you're just an anti-mandater, which effectively has little difference at the end of the day.

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

Don't be cute. The only people advocating "natural immunity" are antivaxxers, antimaskers or anti-mandaters (although these usually are the same group).

Show me a post of mine where I’ve advocated for it.

 

[fireflygmf]

Cool, so somebody opens a fortune cookies and it reads "Truth is truth." How does that guide somebody to take the vaccine before making the perfectly moronic decision to deliberately get infected first?

And that's a rhetorical question, because I saw your answer coming a thousand miles away, and you know that there is zero real world applicable value in promoting "natural immunity" unless you are, in fact, an antivaxxer. Or maybe you're just an anti-mandater, which effectively has little difference at the end of the day.

Who is saying anything about getting deliberately infected? Can we just talk about the facts rather than try to assign ill motive to each other and make personal attacks?

 

[Cardinal]

Show me a post of mine where I’ve advocated for it.

Share with us a real world, practical, applicable use of the promotion of "natural immunity." And "truth is truth" and "knowledge is power" aren't real world applicable uses. That's what you learn to recite before you get your philosophy degree and then make coffee at Starbucks for the rest of your life.

 

[fireflygmf]

Share with us a real world, practical, applicable use of the promotion of "natural immunity." And "truth is truth" and "knowledge is power" aren't real world applicable uses. That's what you learn to recite before you get your philosophy degree and then make coffee at Starbucks for the rest of your life.

You've convinced me. Knowledge is worthless and to hell with the truth.

 

[Cardinal]

You've convinced me. Knowledge is worthless and to hell with the truth.

So why didn't you share with us the color of Neptune, or when the mating season for katydids is, or who invented the spoon? After all, truth is truth and knowledge is power, so just share those facts, right?

 

[fireflygmf]

So why didn't you share with us the color of Neptune, or when the mating season for katydids is, or who invented the spoon? After all, truth is truth and knowledge is power, so just share those facts, right?

You said that either:
a) you can get vaccinated, or
b) experience several weeks of horrible illness or, worse, a month in a hospital bed (assuming you survive), and possible loss of taste and smell, and possible long term organ damage.

I said:
"I just don't think it was fair to frame the either/or options in the way that you did, considering chances of the outcomes you were stating."
because:
"A few days of asymptomatic illness, or mild to moderate illness", is about 99% likely, which you neglect.

You then started on about my being an anti-vaxxer, anti-mandater, and fortune cookie reciter. But interestingly, you didn't for a moment defend your own position.

 

[Cardinal]

You said that either:
a) you can get vaccinated, or
b) experience several weeks of horrible illness or, worse, a month in a hospital bed (assuming you survive), and possible loss of taste and smell, and possible long term organ damage.

I said:
"I just don't think it was fair to frame the either/or options in the way that you did, considering chances of the outcomes you were stating."
because:
"A few days of asymptomatic illness, or mild to moderate illness", is about 99% likely, which you neglect.

You then started on about my being an anti-vaxxer, anti-mandater, and fortune cookie reciter. But interestingly, you didn't for a moment defend your own position.

You're an antivaxxer because you're promoting "natural immunity" with the full knowledge that it has no real world applicable value, except that it promotes an antivaxxer position. And again, if you want to tell us that "truth is truth," then I suggest you get an online philosophy degree and learn to make coffee.

 

[Monica33]

Moronic was another common cold right from the start .

Are you stupid / mentally unhinged or both if you choose a killer shot to ---------- what ?

 

[fireflygmf]

You're an antivaxxer because you're promoting "natural immunity" with the full knowledge that it has no real world applicable value, except that it promotes an antivaxxer position. And again, if you want to tell us that "truth is truth," then I suggest you get an online philosophy degree and learn to make coffee.

I'm fully vaccinated, and boosted, at my earliest opportunity.

I greatly believe in vaccine efficacy, and believe everyone should be vaccinated, the data bears that out.

I take the position that natural immunity is more robust because the data indicates it, as shown by the CDC (link)

I'm anything but a philosophy degree type - I am trained in applied sciences and now work on mission critical systems.

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

Share with us a real world, practical, applicable use of the promotion of "natural immunity." And "truth is truth" and "knowledge is power" aren't real world applicable uses. That's what you learn to recite before you get your philosophy degree and then make coffee at Starbucks for the rest of your life.

Again, you show me a post of me advocating for it. Show me one post where I said a person should get infected instead of getting vaccinated. Show me the post or correct your lies.

 

[Cardinal]

Again, you show me a post of me advocating for it. Show me one post where I said a person should get infected instead of getting vaccinated. Show me the post or correct your lies.

Share with us a real world, practical, applicable use of the promotion of "natural immunity." And "truth is truth" and "knowledge is power" aren't real world applicable uses. That's what you learn to recite before you get your philosophy degree and then make coffee at Starbucks for the rest of your life.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Are you advocating getting "natural immunity" over vaccination? And if not, why would you feel the need to say this?

Why would you assume that a simple factual statement is advocating for anything? I felt the need to say it because you obviously have a warped view of the facts and of the value of relevant information, as well as a penchant for twisting the words of other posters on this forum to fit your silly narrative.

 

[Luce]

The mods can decide if a member making false claims against another is acceptable on this forum.

I feel like I'm on pretty solid ground, here.