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New Testament Forged?

How do you know?
 
BDBoop said:
How do you know?
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Because I trust the rebuttal and am a Bible scholar myself. I know the history of some of the scriptures and have studied them with detail. I'll graduate with the equivalence of a minor in Biblical studies: of which I have a 4.0 in. The guy isn't in pursuit of truth but rather in the pursuit of attacking Christianity. I question his motives and recognize his bias.
 
My view on the Bible is that the OT has little value to Christians, and most of the NT as well. You can reduce the whole Bible down to a few books, those where Jesus himself taught, the 4 gospels, and if you can't live according to that, the rest won't help you.
Actually, Matt. chapter 25 is the core of true christianity...
A good read is "Horizontal Harmony" which lays out the 4 gospels in 4 columns of the same page, and makes it easy to compare the writers take on what Jesus said, and what they think he meant.
 
UtahBill said:
My view on the Bible is that the OT has little value to Christians, and most of the NT as well. You can reduce the whole Bible down to a few books, those where Jesus himself taught, the 4 gospels, and if you can't live according to that, the rest won't help you.
Actually, Matt. chapter 25 is the core of true christianity...
A good read is "Horizontal Harmony" which lays out the 4 gospels in 4 columns of the same page, and makes it easy to compare the writers take on what Jesus said, and what they think he meant.
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Thank you, Sir.
 
BDBoop said:
Thank you, Sir.
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you are welcome....
I usually stop short of my views on the NT, before I get into bashing Paul. He was the church's first great missionary, but he redefined the church and now many "Christians" are more Paulist than Christian. They just don't know it...
 
UtahBill said:
My view on the Bible is that the OT has little value to Christians, and most of the NT as well. You can reduce the whole Bible down to a few books, those where Jesus himself taught, the 4 gospels, and if you can't live according to that, the rest won't help you.
Actually, Matt. chapter 25 is the core of true christianity...
A good read is "Horizontal Harmony" which lays out the 4 gospels in 4 columns of the same page, and makes it easy to compare the writers take on what Jesus said, and what they think he meant.
Click to expand...

Jesus himself further boiled it all down to a single sentence:

"In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this sums up the law and the prophets." Matt 7:12
 
digsbe said:
Because I trust the rebuttal and am a Bible scholar myself. I know the history of some of the scriptures and have studied them with detail. I'll graduate with the equivalence of a minor in Biblical studies: of which I have a 4.0 in. The guy isn't in pursuit of truth but rather in the pursuit of attacking Christianity. I question his motives and recognize his bias.
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And therein lies the problem discussing issues like this. 99% of "the Bible is false" research is motivated by anti-christian rage and biased hit pieces, making all discussion about topics like this pretty much impossible.

I don't trust CNN or EWTN (example), both have an agenda. CNN wants christianity gone, its pretty obvious, hence their opinion on the bible is the last I would actually listen to.
 
Forgery isn't even the right word for what he is suggesting, plagiarized perhaps....
 
Jerry, i work for a living. I'm writing ads right now. I was in training most of the day. I do generally just drop information much as the news was shared 50 years ago. No slant, no bias, just the facts.
 
BDBoop said:
Jerry, i work for a living. I'm writing ads right now. I was in training most of the day. I do generally just drop information much as the news was shared 50 years ago. No slant, no bias, just the facts.
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I understand dropping a dime while you're busy doing other things, we all have lives, but more information is always welcome. The level of effort you place in your OP will effect the quality of replys you receive form the average reader.
 
Jerry said:
I understand dropping a dime while you're busy doing other things, we all have lives, but more information is always welcome. The level of effort you place in your OP will effect the quality of replys you receive form the average reader.
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even the below average reader.....
 
Let's assume that some of the profits are illiterate. Let's assume that some of the books are written by other authors. Does that automatically equal forgery? No. In fact, name one book that Jesus wrote. You can't. The testament according to Paul or anyone else may have had other authors, but that doesn't mean they where not, what we call today, ghost writers. Who cares if Paul physically penned the words or some other writer put them to paper. We know the credit for the content really goes to Jesus, regardless of who's hand made the marks.

I know a lot of people desperately want to prove Christianity wrong, but after thousands of years and billions or even trillions of attempts, the Bible remains the perfect word of God. No other book has been so heavily vetted. No other book has stood for so long. No other book will ever surpass the word of God.
 
ksu_aviator said:
Let's assume that some of the profits are illiterate. Let's assume that some of the books are written by other authors. Does that automatically equal forgery? No. In fact, name one book that Jesus wrote. You can't. The testament according to Paul or anyone else may have had other authors, but that doesn't mean they where not, what we call today, ghost writers. Who cares if Paul physically penned the words or some other writer put them to paper. We know the credit for the content really goes to Jesus, regardless of who's hand made the marks.

I know a lot of people desperately want to prove Christianity wrong, but after thousands of years and billions or even trillions of attempts, the Bible remains the perfect word of God. No other book has been so heavily vetted. No other book has stood for so long. No other book will ever surpass the word of God.
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and no other book has been so heavily used to abuse others....
Christians fight amongst themselves over who can be called christians or have to be labeled heathens or infidels or cultists.
You would think a perfect book would unite us, but the big problem is, we are imperfect beings, and so were the writers of the Bible...
 
UtahBill said:
and no other book has been so heavily used to abuse others....
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Oh, that isn't even remotely true.

Christians fight amongst themselves over who can be called christians or have to be labeled heathens or infidels or cultists.
You would think a perfect book would unite us, but the big problem is, we are imperfect beings, and so were the writers of the Bible...
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Fallacy! For crying out loud, you even identify the fallacy in your own statement. The imperfection of the people that read the book does not invalidate the claim that the book itself is perfect. In fact, I do not know of one person...not one...that has lived their entire life within the teachings of the Bible. We are imperfect, but if you could live by the teachings of the Bible you would be perfect.
 
ksu_aviator said:
Oh, that isn't even remotely true.



Fallacy! For crying out loud, you even identify the fallacy in your own statement. The imperfection of the people that read the book does not invalidate the claim that the book itself is perfect. In fact, I do not know of one person...not one...that has lived their entire life within the teachings of the Bible. We are imperfect, but if you could live by the teachings of the Bible you would be perfect.
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Matt. 19:21
who can do this? none of us....
it is an impossible task.
Nearly all religions start by making us feel inadequate in God's eyes, instilling fear. Then they offer a way to become acceptable to God. But the way is not easy, and not cheap.

Most of us are casual christians, sorely lacking in effort to follow Jesus....we would have to give up too much by sharing with the poor.

Odd that conservative christians find sharing so difficult...
 
UtahBill said:
and no other book has been so heavily used to abuse others....
Christians fight amongst themselves over who can be called christians or have to be labeled heathens or infidels or cultists.
You would think a perfect book would unite us, but the big problem is, we are imperfect beings, and so were the writers of the Bible...
Click to expand...

Thank you. My experiences exactly. And if anybody else is sharing my moccasins, I still heartily recommend "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by Dave Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. Dave was my pastor a couple of decades ago, when I was active at Church of the Open Door, and Jeff was something (can't remember his title, but he still has a web presence).
 
BDBoop said:
Thank you. My experiences exactly. And if anybody else is sharing my moccasins, I still heartily recommend "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by Dave Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen. Dave was my pastor a couple of decades ago, when I was active at Church of the Open Door, and Jeff was something (can't remember his title, but he still has a web presence).
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I consider myself more spiritual than religious. Religions can be helpful, or harmful. Long story short, churches are not required to be either religious or spiritual...
 
Did you ever watch the Waltons? When the family went to church, the mom would get cold and angry, because John went fishing - that was his favorite method of worship.
 
BDBoop said:
Did you ever watch the Waltons? When the family went to church, the mom would get cold and angry, because John went fishing - that was his favorite method of worship.
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Well, if it was on a sitcom we should clearly use that to define our political views.
 
No. It was a much beloved drama with a bit of comedy. Lots of people wished they'd been born a Walton. According to IMDB, it was about "The life and trials of a 1930's mountain family."
 
digsbe said:
Because I trust the rebuttal and am a Bible scholar myself.
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I'd just like to point out that I read your link and it's a very poor rebuttle. Very little evidence of anything and it goes into very little detail of anything in particular. I'm not saying that the guy is right and that the entire Bible or close to it is forged, just that the particular link you used really doesn't make any well put case against that idea.
 
The new testament wasnt forged they had a different view of authorship back then. the guy who wrote the gospel of Judas wasnt lying, back then if you were thinking about judas as you wrote you would feel quite comfortable in saying it was the gospel according to judas. In the new testament What got in what was left out and why is fascinating. I am an atheist so to me its all a part of history.
 
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