New state study highlights negative effects of marijuana.......

[Lursa]

I disagree. Any addictive drug should require a prescription. And when medicinal drugs are abused recreationally, they have less positive effect when they are actually needed for legitimate medicinal use. For instance, one addicted to any opium drug will have much diminished effectiveness if treated with morphine for serious pain related to trauma, cancer, etc.

You mean like alcohol and cigarettes and coffee/soda (yes, caffeine is addictive)?

 

[Absentglare]

You mean like alcohol and cigarettes and coffee/soda (yes, caffeine is addictive)?

"In the U.S., 80 percent of adults consume caffeine every day – the average adult has an intake of 200 mg per day, the amount in two 5-ounce cups of coffee or four sodas."

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/UCM200805.pdf

 

[Lursa]

You will never convince current drug addicts of the negative effects of MJ no matter how many studies you come up with.

LOL I dont use it and you arent convincing me either.

use and abuse are 2 very different things. THere are many positive things about using pot too. Duh! lol

 

[Lursa]

While I am against the legalization of pot for recreational use, I don't have a problem with genuine medicinal use. And by genuine, I mean legitimate medicinal use....such as with cannibis oil to treat seizures. That does not include potheads smoking pot under the guise of medicinal use....just for the sake of getting high.

So people enjoying pot recreationally are different how from people drinking recreationally or smokers?

 

[Lursa]

I have never tried cannabis oil myself, but my sister has gotten quite stoned from it. Latest batch (from California rather than New Mexico or Colorado) was so potent that she was literally walking into walls and decided to stop taking it and to rely only on the morphine and Fentanyl patch.

I'm very sorry about your sister's illness.

 

[Lursa]

Fair enough. We disagree. I do agree that prohibition of alcohol was ill advised and failed miserably. My problem with POT legalization for recreational use is that once that's done....the pro-recreational crowd will move on to seeking legalization of the more dangerous drugs for recreational use....cocaine, heroin, etc. And that will be a dangerous and slippery slope.

Oh please. By no means does that mean we'll have to legalize any other drugs.

What kind of a legal system is that? Legalize NOTHING so we dont have to MAYBE legalize some other stuff 'someday?'

It's as bad and lazy legal process as 'zero tolerance laws.' It removes the responsibility of examining each issue critically and individually. And that IS the responsibility of the legal system.

 

[Lursa]

Nope. Not suggesting that. I just do not want to flat out legalize everything for recreational use.

And pot is not 'everything.'

The criteria. "Nothing addictive" doesnt actually work, does it?

 

[Lursa]

correct. it is a small part.

a bigger part are the FBI raids on these pot stores for smuggling dope and drug money to cartels. they shut down about 5 of them or so for doing exactly that.

Why would they smuggle dope to cartels? They have plenty. And why smuggle them $$ if the pot is domestically produced, which it is?

Links?

 

[Lursa]

The failure of the war on drugs is more then anything else related to the revolving door criminal justice system. In any case, concerning the hard drugs, we have to keep them prescription only no matter the financial cost. If we flat legalized all addictive medicinal drugs for recreational use, it would remove the taboos that keep most from imbibing. If we do that, living in this nation will become similar to living in a zoo.

There are no taboos that keep people from imbibing. Cigarettes are available to everyone...by no means does everyone smoke.

Pot has been easily available to everyone for ages...if anyone wanted to try it, they already would have done so.

OTOH, there are many that have been victims of decades of government propaganda and thus it's ingrained in them that *pot is bad!* So much so that they cannot get beyond it, cannot process that it's actually no different from other, legal addictive substances and in many ways, less harmful and addictive.

 

[nota bene]

I'm very sorry about your sister's illness.

Thank you for your condolence, Lursa. This is life, and for us all.

My sister has faced her death with immense courage and sensible quality-of-life decisions. Her beloved is reaching peace and acceptance, and she is surrounded by love. Years ago a cousin remarked on his mother's death as a "good death," and I was struck by this and recall it now with more understanding tonight.

 

[Lursa]

Alcohol is damaging enough. Just ask the families who have lost loved ones to drunk drivers. However I think pretty much everyone agrees that we cannot ban the fermentation of organic matter.

Why not? LOL Oh yeah, that failed. Even when illegal, it was useless.

We cant ban the growth of plants either. It's been done privately for as long as pot has been illegal. The criminalization of that was also useless and failed.

The 'sale' or commercialization of such fermented or grown products is a different story and the govt definitely wants its share of that.

 

[Lursa]

I stopped for one wreck late at at night several years ago where the young man who caused the wreck and trapped two elederly victims in their car was quite stoned on pot.

How do you know?

 

[Lursa]

Thank you for your condolence, Lursa. This is life, and for us all.

My sister has faced her death with immense courage and sensible quality-of-life decisions. Her beloved is reaching peace and acceptance, and she is surrounded by love. Years ago a cousin remarked on his mother's death as a "good death," and I was struck by this and recall it now with more understanding tonight.

I wish her and you and your family peace.

 

[nota bene]

Again, thank you. Yes, peace for us all, God's peace.

 

[yankintx]

We must distinguish between hard and soft drugs, and choose our battles with the War on Drugs. I would prefer the cash and resources used to implement the Federal prohibition on cannabis be used more effectively. Such as drug education and coming down hard on heroin and meth dealers, those are the drugs which destroy lives. C'mon folks lets use common sense.

 

[bg85]

Alcohol is damaging enough. Just ask the families who have lost loved ones to drunk drivers. However I think pretty much everyone agrees that we cannot ban the fermentation of organic matter.

that doesn't answer my question. why do you think that legalizing pot would lead to a slippery slope of legalizing all drugs when the same thing did not happen with alcohol?

you've also brought up another question. if we can ban the growth of a certain plant, then why can't we ban the fermentation of organic matter? what's the difference? if anything, it's much more difficult to brew beer than it is to grow pot.

Freedom does not translate to doing anything and everything you want within organized society. You cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theatre(unless there is one). You cannot piss on a presidential motorcade....and you cannot get stoned for a court hearing, etc.

does freedom mean that I can live my life the way I choose as long as I don't harm others? what does shouting "fire" in a crowded movie theater have to do with personal use of cocaine or heroin?

 

[yankintx]

Nor should they accept the studies. Their standards are different. It doesn't matter. Both impair your ability to drive. It is irrelevant what alcohol does. NOT POT WHILE DRIVING! Period.

Ask yourself why the FDA is not approving studies on cannabis for its medical benefits

They wont, there is a study ongoing now (PTSD) which only got approval from the FDA after much arm twisting FDA likes to approve studies proving the drugs placement on Schedule 1, so far after 40 years the FDA has found very little to justify the federal prohibition. That does not stop the FDA and DEA from spreading misinformation on cannabis.

We need to take the Dutch model on drugs and differentiate soft and hard drugs. In addition drug addicts need to be treated as patients, not criminals.

 

[blackjack50]

Ask yourself why the FDA is not approving studies on cannabis for its medical benefits

They wont, there is a study ongoing now (PTSD) which only got approval from the FDA after much arm twisting FDA likes to approve studies proving the drugs placement on Schedule 1, so far after 40 years the FDA has found very little to justify the federal prohibition. That does not stop the FDA and DEA from spreading misinformation on cannabis.

We need to take the Dutch model on drugs and differentiate soft and hard drugs. In addition drug addicts need to be treated as patients, not criminals.

I don't disagree with treating addicts. Nor do I care about using marijuana as a treatment option. My issues are this:

1) Time and again the European studies regardless of topic have shown to NOT include all the information OR they have different standards. They aren't doing it out of malicious intent. They are doing it because they have different standards. And I don't want to simply accept their studies for that reason. I want our studies to improve. I want American studies. That isn't malicious. That isn't corruption. That is just good sense.

2) And after all that, pot while driving is still bad.

 

[Absentglare]

I don't disagree with treating addicts. Nor do I care about using marijuana as a treatment option. My issues are this:

1) Time and again the European studies regardless of topic have shown to NOT include all the information OR they have different standards. They aren't doing it out of malicious intent. They are doing it because they have different standards. And I don't want to simply accept their studies for that reason. I want our studies to improve. I want American studies. That isn't malicious. That isn't corruption. That is just good sense.

2) And after all that, pot while driving is still bad.

So is driving tired.

Or driving while using your cell phone.

Or driving while distracted by passengers.

Or driving while eating.

Or driving while having a seizure.

I don't think "hit by a stoned driver" is anywhere near frequent a cause of death as "hit by a drunk driver."

 

[MAGAnificent]

I don't think so. We already jail more people and more per capita than any country on the planet. Saying more of that will solve the problem seems wrong to me. Bottom line is there is a demand and the market will meet that demand, and selling illegal drugs is very profitable, often done by folks with few good options. I'm not sure why this should surprise a conservative.



I'm not going to make blanket statements because each drug is different. No, I don't want oxy available at the local gas station, but they decriminalized ALL 'illegal' drugs in Portugal and they haven't seen the kind of increase in use or abuse you're assuming. And the 'taboos' can remain through the same peer pressure that has caused smoking to decline. And there is no reason for employers to allow any drug use for employees, so that will always remain a HUGE barrier to casual use of certain drugs.

You are not getting my point on the revolving door criminal justice system. The prisons are full due to the fact that we do not stop criminals early in their criminal careers. They get too many second and third chances. By the time they do any real hard time, they are hardened criminals with a rap sheet longer then your arm.

 

[Mr Person]

In addition to my prior remarks (p2)...

The physical effects of pot, apart from the brain, are seldom mentioned. There also seems less concern among users about second hand smoke. It's Darwin's theory at work.

Marijuana and Lung Health | American Lung Association

Nobody said it is completely harmless. The effects cited in that anti-smoking site are generally found in chronic heavy users. The vast majority of marijuana users are occasional users, however. And even daily users tend to be rather light users. It's like telling people not to drink alcohol, and then citing what happens to people who down 8 drinks a day...

There are also plenty of equivocations, such as: "Smoking marijuana has also been linked to cases of air pockets in between both lungs and between the lungs and the chest wall, as well as large air bubbles in the lungs among young to middle-aged adults, mostly heavy smokers of marijuana. However, it's not possible to establish whether these occur more frequently among marijuana smokers than the general population."

So....no statistical difference between the claimed effects of smoking pot (volume and frequency not mentioned) and the general population. That's not an indication of danger, yet they give it a paragraph to itself. On the other hand they do not mention the failure to link marijuana with cancer, the studies that in fact show marijuana having a positive impact against a few cancers, etc.




Basically, as with anything, be moderate if you don't want to risk harm......

And the harms from pot are pretty tame, unless you're a 12 year old smoking like Willie Nelson

 

[MAGAnificent]

But we'll have better luck banning a weed? LOL...

Probably not. As much as I am against legalizing pot, I know that it's not likely to stay illegal. I just hope that there are adults in the room where laws are written that continue to allow employers to enforce mandatory or random drug testing.

Right, but me getting high does you no harm, and does society little to no harm in the vast majority of cases, so what business is it of Uncle Fed what you take to get high after work? You attach criminal penalties to activities that harm or could harm others, like your "fire" in a crowded theater, or driving impaired by drugs or alcohol.

Ever been injured in a factory or warehouse settintg where the fork lift driver was not at his best bacause he got seriously stoned the night before? It happens. there was also a subway accident where the operator who caused it tested positive for pot.

 

[Mr Person]

I don't care what you do to yourself, but don't expect me to pay for your rent and healthcare when your life goes woefully wrong.

Would you say the same about obese people, for example? Eating too much food causes way more damage than smoking some pot.

says the tejas resident
whose state is a net recipient of federal tax dollars

No kidding.

The worst of it was listening to Sarah Palin blather on about how ruggedly individualist her Alaskans are. I mean, sure, Alaska sounds like a tough place to live in the winter, but that's beside her point. It's easy to be about low taxes and individualism when the state is paying you instead of charging taxes because you just so happen to have a lot of fossil fuels in your territory.




Liberals are takers. That's why the red states typically are net recipients of federal tax dollars, necessarily coming from....the alleged taker states. Yup .

 

[MAGAnificent]

Why do we need hard drugs to be illegal ?

Because it is patently stupid not to keep them illegal for recreational use.

Do things have to be illegal for you to know not to do them ? Do we need to outlaw smacking oneself in the head ?

I know not to do something so patently stupid as taking dangerous addictive hard drugs for recreational use. However there are many out there who lack such self control.

 

[bg85]

Probably not. As much as I am against legalizing pot, I know that it's not likely to stay illegal. I just hope that there are adults in the room where laws are written that continue to allow employers to enforce mandatory or random drug testing.

Ever been injured in a factory or warehouse settintg where the fork lift driver was not at his best bacause he got seriously stoned the night before? It happens. there was also a subway accident where the operator who caused it tested positive for pot.

why wouldn't businesses be allowed to drug test? businesses are allowed to bar users of other substances from employment if they wish. many businesses do not hire people who smoke cigarettes, for example.

you still haven't answered my question about why legalizing pot would lead to every drug being legalized when the same thing didn't happen with alcohol.