New Saddam Documents Detail Terror Training

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Stinger:
That's an urban myth,

So the photo in post #18 was doctored?

Originally posted by Stinger:
we never had an alliance with Saddam Hussien or Iraq,

Then how did he get all those arms he fought Iran with?

Originally posted by Stinger:
but even if we had SO WHAT?

Then why make your last two statements?

Originally posted by Stinger:
Since the mid-90's it was the formal policy of the United States to remove him from power by any necessary means.

That's in violation of the Law of our Land!

Originally posted by Stinger:
We actually did have an alliance with the Soviet Union at one time did the preclude us from winning the cold war?

Try to stay on topic.

 

[cherokee]

No hardcore proof has yet made it to the American people.
I believe if Bush had anything it that proved Saddam was doing what has been stated at the beginning of this post it would have been blasted all over the news.

But it’s a mute point now….
“Why” is not the question we need to be asking.
We need to ask how in the Sam hell are we going to get out of this chitstorm!

PS. He was a friend of the USA in the 80's.
The enemy of your enemy is your friend

 

[G-Man]

And you have some evidence that Saddam told Al qaeda and Hamas and the Islamice Jihad that he would support what them EXCEPT for anything against the United States????? Geezzz

How about the docuements concerning his ties with terrorism, you're claiming he created these millions of documents as a charade and that, while you certainly haven't been fooled, all our intelligence experts have been.

Ahhh and again you know better than the intelligence experts?

1) Al qaeda wants an Islamic state across the whole of the middle east (perhaps the entire world) - Saddam was a brutal dictator who had fought all his life to first seize control of Iraq and then maintain it. Last time I looked military dictators have no place in Islamic States. So Saddam was hoping to support Osama in turning the whole of the middle east into an Islamic State EXCEPT Iraq where he would be allowed to maintain power over several million of Osama's muslin brothers?? Does anyone actually believe that?? If al qaeda takes control of the middle east its the end for Saddam....hardly makes him likely to support them.

2) Ahh these magical documents about Iraq and terrorism. Presumably these are different to the thousands of documents which the intelligence services have not currently interpreted or investigated and the detail of which is as yet unknown. Yes, obviously they provide concrete proof of Saddams ties to terrorism. - remember the 'yellow cake' documents proving Iraq was trying to build a Nuc.....oh yeah they turned out to be fake - everything is not always what it seems.

3) The intelligence experts haven't examined all the documents yet so I doubt if any of them would step forward and make such rash statements as you are. But bearing in mind they concluded Iraq possessed vast stockpiles of WMD and was a current threat to the West I think we have a duty to question what they say, rather than just take it all for granted as correct.

 

[Hoot]

Ahhh and again you know better than the intelligence experts?

Let's just say I would know better then to pick and choose only the intelligence that supported my agenda, and I would know better then to ignore intelligence that stated Saddam was no threat...especially if it meant taking our nation to war.

 

[cnredd]

Let's just say I would know better then to pick and choose only the intelligence that supported my agenda, and I would know better then to ignore intelligence that stated Saddam was no threat...especially if it meant taking our nation to war.

Why do people continue to say "ignore"???

Whatever happened to He heard reports that said "Yes" and reports that said "No" and made an Executive decision?

That's not "ignoring"...

 

[Stinger]

1) Al qaeda wants ........................

Your postulations do not refute the facts.

2) Ahh these magical documents about Iraq and terrorism. [/quote]

Who said they were magical? They are simply the boring documents a government buracracy puts out. Except in this case they document what we have already known.

Yes, obviously they provide concrete proof of Saddams ties to terrorism. - remember the 'yellow cake' documents proving Iraq was trying to build a Nuc.....oh yeah they turned out to be fake - everything is not always what it seems.

Well actually he had begun his experiments in nuclear phyics again and he did pocess yellow-cake and he had tried to get more. There was ONE suppose set of forged documents but they were hardly the only evidence of Saddam's desire to obtain nuclear weapons.

3) The intelligence experts haven't examined all the documents yet so I doubt if any of them would step forward and make such rash statements as you are.

And what are the statements that I have made you paint as "rash"?

But bearing in mind they concluded Iraq possessed vast stockpiles of WMD

Define "vast". And we know he had them, the UN said he had them, Saddam himself said he had them, so the question is what happen to them. Former Ambassadore Bremmer made the same observation yesterday on Meet The Press, it's not a question of did he have them it's what happen to them.

and was a current threat to the West I think we have a duty to question what they say, rather than just take it all for granted as correct.

It was more a threat of becoming an eminent threat and you can question all you want, but dismisalls out of hand are another thing.

So what do you believe these documents are evidence of

1. Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) Correspondence to Iraq Embassy in the Philippines and Iraq MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
2. Possible al Qaeda Terror Members in Iraq
3. IIS report on Taliban-Iraq Connections Claims
4. Money Transfers from Iraq to Afghanistan
5. IIS Agent in Bulgaria
6. Iraqi Intel report on Kurdish Activities: Mention of Kurdish Report on al Qaeda--reference to al Qaeda presence in Salman Pak
7. IIS report about the relationship between IIS and the Kurdish Group Jalal Talibani [sic]
8. Iraqi Mukhabarat Structure
9. Locations of Weapons/Ammunition Storage (with map)
10. Iraqi Effort to Cooperate with Saudi Opposition Groups and Individuals
11. Order from Saddam to present $25,000 to Palestinian Suicide Bombers Families
12. IIS reports from Embassy in Paris: Plan to Influence French Stance on U.N. Security Council
13. IIS Importing and Hiding High Tech Computers in Violation of UN
14. IIS request to move persons, documents to private residences
15. Formulas and information about Iraq's Chemical Weapons Agents
16. Denial and Deception of WMD and Killing of POWs
17. 1987 orders by Hussein to use chemical weapons in the Ealisan Basin
18. Ricin research and improvement
19. Personnel file of Saad Mohammad Abd Hammadi al Deliemi
20. Memo from the Arab Liaison Committee: With a list of personnel in need of official documents
21. Fedayeen Saddam Responds to IIS regarding rumors of citizens aiding Afghanistan
22. Document from Uday Hussein regarding Taliban activity
23. Improvised Explosive Devices Plan
24. IIS reports on How French Campaigns are Financed
25. French and German relationships with Iraq
26. IIS reports about Russian Companies--News articles and potential IIS agents
27. IIS plan for 2000 of Europe's Influence of Iraq Strategy
28. IIS plans to infiltrate countries and collect information to help remove sanctions
29. Correspondence from IIS and the stations in Europe
30. Contract for satellite pictures between Russia, France and Iraq: Pictures of Neighboring Countries (Dec. 2002)
31. Chemical Gear for Fedayeen Saddam
32. Memo from the IIS to Hide Information from a U.N. Inspection team (1997)
33. Chemical Agent Purchase Orders (Dec. 2001)
34. Iraq Ministry of Defense Calls for Investigation into why documents related to WMD were found by UN inspection team
35. Correspondence between various Iraq organizations giving instructions to hide chemicals and equipment
36. Correspondence from IIS to MIC regarding information gathered by foreign intelligence satellites on WMD (Dec. 2002)
37. Correspondence from IIS to Iraqi Embassy in Malaysia
38. Cleaning chemical suits and how to hide chemicals
39. IIS plan of what to do during UNSCOM inspections (1996)
40. Secret Meeting with Taliban Group Member and Iraqi Government (Nov. 2000)

Those are just some of the titles of the documents we are looking into. Do they show Saddam was totally out of the aid to terrorist business or had no interest at all in WMD or was fully cooperating with the UN? Knowing the titles of such documents we uncovered can one reasonably make the claim that Bush lied about everything and Saddam was not involved in terrorism or WMD? Or that his ambitions to take over his neighbors had disappeared?

Or can a reasonable mind come to the conclusion that with this and all that Dr. Kay and Dr. Duelfer reported Saddam was a very dangerous man and it was time to enforce the official policy of the US and the UN mandates and remove him from power.

 

[Stinger]

Let's just say I would know better then to pick and choose only the intelligence that supported my agenda, and I would know better then to ignore intelligence that stated Saddam was no threat...especially if it meant taking our nation to war.

What intelligence stated that Saddam was not threat. Source and cite as has been supplied to you for the other opinion in the matter.

Let's take Dr. Kay and Dr. Duelfer, the two heads of the Iraqi Survey Group, where in their reports do they come to that conclusion.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Stinger
The more telling point is that thankfully we had a president who removed him before the sanctions were lifted and Dr. Kay and Dr. Duelfers findings came to pass.

I would rather have a President that obeys (and respects) the law.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Stinger
Why? I can post pictures of our leaders shaking hands with all kinds of people we didn't have alliances with. Where do you get the idea that merely a picture of two people shaking hands creates an alliance.

You do know that an alliance is a very specific thing.

Rumsfield was dispatched to Iraq as a show of solidarity with Hussein.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by cnredd:
Why do people continue to say "ignore"???

Whatever happened to He heard reports that said "Yes" and reports that said "No" and made an Executive decision?

That's not "ignoring"...

He didn't ignore, he lied. He was told nine months before his State of the Union speech Iraq was no threat. Yet he went ahead with his uranium tube, Iraq is a big god-damn threat scenario anyway. A threat! A country that still does not have 24/7 electrical power. A threat! Give me a break.

 

[Stinger]

I would rather have a President that obeys (and respects) the law.

So does everyone, except of course Democrats who marched to Clintons defense, but what does that have to do with the topic here?

 

[Stinger]

Rumsfield was dispatched to Iraq as a show of solidarity with Hussein.

Where on earth do you get that idea, and are you now withdrawing your claim that Saddam was an ally of the United States? If not then how about posting the declaration of aliance which would have been an official document.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Stinger:
So does everyone, except of course Democrats who marched to Clintons defense, but what does that have to do with the topic here?

It was a response to your off-topic remark.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Stinger:
Where on earth do you get that idea, and are you now withdrawing your claim that Saddam was an ally of the United States? If not then how about posting the declaration of aliance which would have been an official document.

Stop playing word games, I don't appreciate it. It's common knowledge we sold arms to Hussein during his war with Iraq. And where do you think he got the gas to use on the Kurds (if you think he's the one that actually did most of the gassing). Not to many country's make that stuff.

 

[KCConservative]

Stop playing word games, I don't appreciate it. It's common knowledge we sold arms to Hussein during his war with Iraq. And where do you think he got the gas to use on the Kurds (if you think he's the one that actually did most of the gassing). Not to many country's make that stuff.

Fictitious scenerio:

I used to know a guy and we went hunting every year together. One day, while in the field, he ran out of ammunition, so I gave him some of mine. Turns out, he murdered a guy a few years later....with the ammo I gave him. Am I guilty of anything?

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by KCConservative:
Fictitious scenerio:

I used to know a guy and we went hunting every year together. One day, while in the field, he ran out of ammunition, so I gave him some of mine. Turns out, he murdered a guy a few years later....with the ammo I gave him. Am I guilty of anything?

Ask me again when your back on topic.

 

[KCConservative]

Ask me again when your back on topic.

It looks as if you missed the obvious. I understand.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by KCConservative:
It looks as if you missed the obvious. I understand.

When you reach a moment of clarity, then get back on topic, ask me again.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Stop playing word games, I don't appreciate it. It's common knowledge we sold arms to Hussein during his war with Iraq. And where do you think he got the gas to use on the Kurds (if you think he's the one that actually did most of the gassing). Not to many country's make that stuff.

We supplied half of one percent of arms to Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war, we gave Saddam legitimate chemicals (that you could find at the local supersave by the way) to be used for industrial purposes it's not our fault that Saddam used them for WMD production.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
We supplied half of one percent of arms to Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war, we gave Saddam legitimate chemicals (that you could find at the local supersave by the way) to be used for industrial purposes it's not our fault that Saddam used them for WMD production.

Home Depot sells sarin gas?

 

[Billo_Really]

U.S. Had Key Role in Iraq Buildup
Trade in Chemical Arms Allowed Despite Their Use on Iranians, Kurds
by Michael Dobbs

High on the Bush administration's list of justifications for war against Iraq are President Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons, nuclear and biological programs, and his contacts with international terrorists. What U.S. officials rarely acknowledge is that these offenses date back to a period when Hussein was seen in Washington as a valued ally.

Among the people instrumental in tilting U.S. policy toward Baghdad during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was Donald H. Rumsfeld, now defense secretary, whose December 1983 meeting with Hussein as a special presidential envoy paved the way for normalization of U.S.-Iraqi relations. Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1230-04.htm

We knew all about Hussein 20 years ago. And he's still the same guy now.
Plus a cage.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Home Depot sells sarin gas?

We didn't sell Saddam sarin gas. Saddam took the precursor chemicals which are dual use and used them to make WMD, that's not our fault.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
We didn't sell Saddam sarin gas. Saddam took the precursor chemicals which are dual use and used them to make WMD, that's not our fault.

Go back two posts and call me in the morning.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

We knew all about Hussein 20 years ago. And he's still the same guy now.
Plus a cage.

Rumsfeld wasn't even in the public sector at the time so how could he steer U.S. foriegn policy? We supplied chemicals for legitimate uses it's not our fault they were used for WMD production.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
Rumsfeld wasn't even in the public sector at the time so how could he steer U.S. foriegn policy? We supplied chemicals for legitimate uses it's not our fault they were used for WMD production.

He was sent by Ronnie Ray-gun.