I believe we have two separate things being said by witnesses.
1.) The lie from Dorian, PC and TM, that his hands were up surrendering.
and
2.) the hands up in a taunting gesture towards the Officer, not in actual surrender.
#1 turns out to be lies. They have changed their accounts to say his hands were going up and it was just a little bit up at the very end. Which is not up surrendering as they previously said, and is drastically contrasted by what the worker shows and more in line with what Michael Brady states.
While #2 occurred while taunting the Officer prior to the all the shots in the front when Brown was approaching the Officer.
The witness at the end of the video said he was not turned away but was facing him and that he did not have his hands up but under his armpits. Point being...in the same news story there are two completely conflicting accounts.
By the time I got outside, he's [Michal Brown] already turned around facing the officer. He's bald up. He has his arms under his stomach and he was half-way down. And the officer lets off (fires) about 3 or 4 shots at him.
Let me very concise.What you, VanceMack and others seem to be trying to do is paint everyone else who disagrees with your perspective of this event as bias against the police officer. You even seem to get alittle more defensive when you know the person who doesn't share your exact viewpoint is a minority (Black).
Doesn't matter to pointing out information, and also irrelevant as you were commenting on other information as well.However, since this thread is clearly based on the CNN video, it was the only video I've commented on.
Wtf are you talking about?but to throw such material into the discussion and act as if people are being bias against it when they (like myself) likely have never even reviewed it is wrong.
Holy ****! Again, wtf are you talking about? Nothing you said is true. So just an example of your own biased view.I can understand how you would think that every Black person who is commenting on this tragic even are on Michael Brown's side and not Officer Wilson's, but that just confirms to me that you're being just as bias as you clearly believe others to be.
Holy crap! More nonsense from you.A clear example is how you go out of your way to make at distinction between Michael Brown having his arms raised because he was surrendering versus him having his arms up because he was taunting the police officer as he approached.
Wrong.it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.
Doesn't matter. Brown attempting to take the Officers gun and injuring the Officer while doing so establishes him a lethal threat.Now, was Michael Brown may have been aggressive throughout the ordeal, but what most people are saying here is at the time he was shot it's very possible that Officer Wilson could have used non-lethal force to subdue him.
Oy Vey!But until it's clear whether or not there was a de-escalation of hostilities, it's unclear if Office Wilson had time to change gears to halt his alleged aggressor in the moments before Michael Brown's death.
If you do not want to discuss what is known and what may possibly be, stop discussing. It is that simply.Regardless, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm more than willing to wait until all the evidence is heard before claiming guilty or innocent, murder or self-defense.
More nonsense from you again.Excon,
It's not about you and yet you took the time to dissect my post piece-by-piece to make yourself seem relevant. Just as you call BS on me, I call BS on you as well.
You've purposely gone out of your way to pull other material into this threat just to counter everything the witnesses said they observed in the OP. Granted, they have every right to change their views but if we're being honest the only reason you'd post the material in the first place is to counter each account given in support of your point of view on the matter which clearly leans more towards "Michael Brown was wrong every step of the way" not to expand on or correct witness accounts as previously given. In any case, maybe Michael Brown's actions were wrong every step of the way and I wouldn't dispute that if after trial all the evidence supports such a claim, but since we don't know what really happened...
So, again, I say let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
If I had to choose between a third-party witness accounting of what he was told happened versus those who actually witnessed what took place on the scene, I'd take the eyewitnesses account bar none.
Just saying...someone tells you what took place and you retell it to someone else, i.e, "he told me..." OR words straight from those who were there to see events unfold with their own eyes. You be the judge.
If his hands were under his armpits then they werent over his head at the time the last shots were fired.No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on. Mr. Brady's words from the video (grammatically corrected):
His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:
- Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.
- Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.
- Michael Brown was unarmed.
- Michael Brown was shot multiple times.
The reason you continue to harp on this one witness's account is obvious: He's the only one who doesn't state emphatically that Michael Brown did, in fact, have his arms up before being shot. But again, there's a reason he never claims having made such an observation: His observation of what took place was broken. The critical moment you cling to and discount occurred as Mr. Brady was leaving his apartment in his attempt to get down to street level to further witness what was going on.
So, again, let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
maybe you should wait until you have all the facts.
Post #38 - These two new witness statements confirm what other witnesses have already said, that:
1) Michael Brown was running away from the police officer;
2) Officer Wilson did shoot at Michael Brown as he was running away which would support how some witnesses wrongfully made the claim that Michael Brown was "shot in the back";
3) Michael Brown did have his hand up.
4) Michael Brown was shot multiple times, once in the head, several times in the body.
5) Michael Brown died of multiple gun shot wounds.
Post #52 - No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on.
...
His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:
- Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.
- Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.
- Michael Brown was unarmed.
- Michael Brown was shot multiple times.
He heard the first shots from his patio and went outside to see what was going on. That the police officer was shooting (at Michael Brown) from the rear and that Michael Brown turned around going back towards the office and that's when the officer unloaded on him. Michael Brown then fell to his knees.
:doh:roll: :dohExcon,
I took time to listen to the eyewitness account from "Steve" in the 1st video in your post #49 and nothing he said changes what I previously posted, towit:
...or...
From your post, witness "Steve" even said:
Now, just as with the last witness in the CNN video, "Steve" didn't see Michael Brown with his hands up either, but he acknowledged what he heard from the crowd yelling, "He had his hands up".
So, again, nothing you've presented changes anything I've stated above. However, you are right to question whether or not Michael Brown was being genuine, i.e., surrendering to authority, when he allegedly had his hands up OR if he was still being aggressive and "taunting" Officer Wilson as he approached daring him to shoot him. I will grant you that Michael Brown likely did not have his hands up because he was surrendering to police authority. Furthermore, I'll even grant you that Michael Brown was likely taunting Officer Wilson as he moved toward him. I've even said in other threads on this topic that it's very possible that Michael Brown did double-back onto Officer Wilson AND it's likely either Officer Wilson was caught off guard and didn't notice Michael approaching until the last moment OR the situation progressed so rapidly that it didn't deescalated, thus, allowing Officer Wilson the opportunity to consider using non-lethal force against his aggressor. Moreover, I can even see Officer Wilson reflectively going for his gun for the simple fact that he was attacked by Michael Brown mere moments beforehand. I've even questioned these last moments. So, don't mistake what I've presented as factual eyewitness accounts as defense of Michael Brown or guilt of Officer Wilson. I'm very willing to let the evidence speak for itself once presented before claiming guilt or innocence, murder or self-defense.
Then you stand by horse**** and inappropriateness.As to the rest of your comments, I stand by my position as to why I believe you posted the additional material.
Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.:doh:roll: :doh
Then you stand by horse**** and inappropriateness.
Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.
‘A dozen witnesses’ say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting | New York Post
Multiple witnesses in riot-torn Ferguson, Mo., said that the unarmed black teen killed by a white cop attacked the officer in his patrol car before the teen was shot, according to a new report.
“Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop’s version of events in shooting,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch crime reporter Christine Byers tweeted, without elaborating.
Darren Wilson is 100% innocent.
Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.
These witnesses did not say they were hands up in the air surrendering.
And if the video is any indication of how the hands were up, that fits perfectly with the hearsay account of taunting the Officer, not up as in surrendering.
The original account of this topic was published on the 7th.
It is reported that the worker said the following.
Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.
Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.
After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”
Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting : News
Secondly, it is kind of obvious that many witnesses are just repeating what they heard from others.
This account may be no different.
It is reported that they were 50 feet away. And that simply isn't true. The workers notes indicate they were 40-50 yards away, not feet.
And if one estimates the distance they are at in the video, they are about 75 yards from the scene. And if in the the ditch they were digging in, further.
Then it is reported that he claims there were three cops at the time of the shooting.
As reported here.Exclusive: Witness claims he saw Michael Brown being shot | FOX2now.com
Previously posted images showing claimed distance to be in yards, and a measurement of the supposed distance.
How cute, but is doesn't work that way. You already stated what you stood by, your position, which is nothing but horse**** and was inappropriate to even post.
You don't get to change that.
These witnesses did not say they were hands up in the air surrendering. And if the video is any indication of how the hands were up, that fits perfectly with the hearsay account of taunting the Officer, not up as in surrendering.
We already know that he had just robbed a carry out without even trying to hide his face from the cameras. That's not exactly rational behavior.It's easier to believe that people are EVIL and mean - not so stupid they kill their own selves as a result.
It's called denial. It's understandable though - everyone wants to believe that people are good all the time and never do anything dumb or thoughtless - like walk in front of a race car, angrily confronting that race car driver - while the race is going on at speeds over 150 mph. Only to get hit and killed.
You don't want to accept that someone was stupid enough to try to beat a cop to death and then was shot for it while he went to attack him again. It's called suicide by cop.
You don't want to accept it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. People can be violent, stupid, selfish ****s.
As you are the only one between us posting bs, I have no worries.I'm not telling you how to post. I'm just saying before you call BS on another poster you should check your own.
See all the stuff in green? All of it is irrelevant to the specific exchange about your personal comment, and is nothing more than deflection from your getting personal by posting racial horse****.The only "position" I stand behind where this thread is concerned is what I believe was your reason for posting the videos in your post #49. I don't believe it was to refute anything the witnesses from the OP said. Rather, I firmly believe you posted the videos for the sole purpose to say, "Look, Michael Brown was totally wrong!" And not once have I disagreed with your opinion on the matter. In fact, I've gone out of my way to say, "Maybe you're right!," since clearly there are other witnesses who give a different account from that given by those in the OP.
:dohYou came into the thread at page 5, quote me, and the first words you put down (post #48) were...
...as if I claimed that Michael Brown was surrendering w/his hands up at the time he was shot. I've n-e-v-e-r made such a claim and I don't think anyone else has either.
All this is nonsense and irrelevant. I did not go into attack mode, nor did I say you specifically said anything, so stop with your absurdities.However, I can totally understand why you'd be quick to point that out because when most people say that Michael Brown had his hands up it gives the impression that they believe he was surrendering. That has never been my position. If anything, I've taken the position that Michael Brown was defenseless at the time he was shot and that maybe Officer Wilson used excessive force. Maybe...
To that, all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual. But I've also said it's highly likely Michael Brown was still in an aggravated/agitated state and, if so, IMO Officer Wilson had every right to be afraid for his life and shoot based on the fact that he had previously had an altercation with him in his police car and at least one shot was fired. Regardless of what either of us believes, it's going to be up to a jury to determine whether or not he was surrendering or if he was in an aggressive/agitated state taunting and/or pursuing Officer Wilson at the time he was shot. But all you had to do when you chimed in (post #48 and #49, respectively) was ask the simple question: "Was Michael Brown surrendering when he had his hands up or was he taunting the police?" and use the videos to state your case from there. You didn't. Instead, you went right into attack mode.
:naughtyall I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual.
Wrong.it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.
That is contested by other accounts.
Even the liars have changed their accounts to say they were going up at that time. Which means they were not up according to them.
And as I pointed out to Vance, I believe two separate points in time are being related.
He's bald up. He has his arms under his stomach and he was half-way down. And the officer lets off (fires) about 3 or 4 shots at him.
We already know that he had just robbed a carry out without even trying to hide his face from the cameras. That's not exactly rational behavior.
I wonder what the toxicology results are going to show.
He had marijuana is in his system.
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