New Gun Regulations

[MaggieD]

Disclaimer: I own a gun. I've taken formal training in home protection. I shoot occasionally. I believe in the right to own guns. I come from a family who reveres gun ownership.

Having said that. Is it not possible that gun owners could lead us toward more responsible gun ownership? Could we not become part of the solution instead of being perceived as most of the problem? "How could they do that," you ask:

• All guns registered.
• Permits required in all states.
• Monthly background checks. If failed, permit revoked; guns collected.
• Mandatory 3-day waiting period to purchase.
• Automatic sentence of 3 years in prison for being caught with an unregistered gun or w/o a permit. Loses privileges for life.
• Anyone who is convicted of a violent crime loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone who has had a Protection Order put on them loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone on prescription medication for depression or mood problems loses their gun privileges for five years after they've stopped such medication. (Nor can anyone in their household.) (Drugs like Prozac, Lithium, etc.)
• Anyone caught in public with an automatic weapon in public not locked in a gun case sentenced to an automatic 3 years in prison. Loses privileges for life. (Not at home...not at a gun range.)

The objective of my suggestions is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, to put teeth in the laws we currently have on the books, and give law enforcement the tools it needs to get guns off the streets that are owned by crooks.

I know everyone will object to registering guns. But other than our own government turning against us, can you think of any other good reason?

Are these so horrible? There has to be a way to balance our right to own guns against public safety. I think the inexorable tide is moving toward more restrictions. Which, if any, of these suggestions could you support? What restrictions might you add?

Please do not send me through the wood chipper.

 

[madman]

As i have mentioned before, hold all gun owners accountable for every bullet that leaves that chamber.
Everyone needs to register the gun to some sort of enforcement agency.

If a gun owner leaves the gun to where anyone can get it, it's all on him.
If the gun owner loses the gun or finds that it has been stolen, then he must report it to the authorities so his name will remain clean if anyone is hurt or killed with the gun.


**edit** This will NOT prevent killings, it will only make owners more responsible, and it will make it more difficult for the wrong people to obtain guns.

 

[Lutherf]

Why stop there? IF we do all that shouldn't we also give the cops blanket power to stop and search everyone at any time including their homes to ensure compliance? Shouldn't we prohibit the possession of firearms by anyone who lawfully owns firearms but has a prohibited person visit them in their home, in public or in their place of business? Shouldn't we mandate that everyone fill out a questionnaire to verify the status of anyone that they may come in contact with so that all parties can be certain of the others status?

It's pure madness Maggie. Like all the other gun grabber legislation things like this will only infringe on the rights of lawful citizens while the unlawful will continue to ignore the laws until such time as they decide to do something horrible and then what? The next proposal will be to go after the lawful owners even more.

I'm sick and damned tired of legislation that assumes the worst in people, levies penalties against the whole population instead of the scofflaws and puts the onus of responsibility for individual actions on the state. Why the hell should I have to pay the price because someone else can't keep their act together?

 

[Lutherf]

As i have mentioned before, hold all gun owners accountable for every bullet that leaves that chamber.
Everyone needs to register the gun to some sort of enforcement agency.

If a gun owner leaves the gun to where anyone can get it, it's all on him.
If the gun owner loses the gun or finds that it has been stolen, then he must report it to the authorities so his name will remain clean if anyone is hurt or killed with the gun.


**edit** This will NOT prevent killings, it will only make owners more responsible, and it will make it more difficult for the wrong people to obtain guns.

These laws won't make anyone more responsible. Can't you see that? Hell, in your edit you ADMIT that it won't stop the shootings. All it will do is give the state 3 more charges to levy against someone who has already committed a crime.

 

[MaggieD]

Why the hell should I have to pay the price because someone else can't keep their act together?

Why the hell should twenty kindergartners pay the price??

Forbidding people on mood altering drugs from owning guns is not gun-grabber legislation. Neither is forbidding those who have mental illness. What specific ones are you objecting to so vehemently?

 

[TurtleDude]

Why the hell should twenty kindergartners pay the price??

Forbidding people on mood altering drugs from owning guns is not gun-grabber legislation. Neither is forbidding those who have mental illness. What specific ones are you objecting to so vehemently?

emotobabbling. criminals are exempt from registration..the guns used were registered to the lawful owner

you are just creating more laws for people to break so they can be branded felons such as failure to register

with people demanding bans why should anyone register something

 

[YoungConserv]

Disclaimer: I own a gun. I've taken formal training in home protection. I shoot occasionally. I believe in the right to own guns. I come from a family who reveres gun ownership.

Having said that. Is it not possible that gun owners could lead us toward more responsible gun ownership? Could we not become part of the solution instead of being perceived as most of the problem? "How could they do that," you ask:

• All guns registered.
• Permits required in all states.
• Monthly background checks. If failed, permit revoked; guns collected.
• Mandatory 3-day waiting period to purchase.
• Automatic sentence of 3 years in prison for being caught with an unregistered gun or w/o a permit. Loses privileges for life.
• Anyone who is convicted of a violent crime loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone who has had a Protection Order put on them loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone on prescription medication for depression or mood problems loses their gun privileges for five years after they've stopped such medication. (Nor can anyone in their household.) (Drugs like Prozac, Lithium, etc.)
• Anyone caught in public with an automatic weapon in public not locked in a gun case sentenced to an automatic 3 years in prison. Loses privileges for life. (Not at home...not at a gun range.)

The objective of my suggestions is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, to put teeth in the laws we currently have on the books, and give law enforcement the tools it needs to get guns off the streets that are owned by crooks.

I know everyone will object to registering guns. But other than our own government turning against us, can you think of any other good reason?

Are these so horrible? There has to be a way to balance our right to own guns against public safety. I think the inexorable tide is moving toward more restrictions. Which, if any, of these suggestions could you support? What restrictions might you add?

Please do not send me through the wood chipper.

Your suggestion on the medication is not well thought out I take Prozac for mild anxiety and I own a gun if I stoped because I no longer felt I needed my medication should I loose my gun. Most medicines like Prozac are supposed to be used in conjunction with therapy and eventually remove the medication as you have adjusted yourself to no longer needing it.

 

[lizzie]

• All guns registered.
• Permits required in all states.
• Monthly background checks. If failed, permit revoked; guns collected.
• Mandatory 3-day waiting period to purchase.
• Automatic sentence of 3 years in prison for being caught with an unregistered gun or w/o a permit. Loses privileges for life.
• Anyone who is convicted of a violent crime loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone who has had a Protection Order put on them loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone on prescription medication for depression or mood problems loses their gun privileges for five years after they've stopped such medication. (Nor can anyone in their household.) (Drugs like Prozac, Lithium, etc.)
• Anyone caught in public with an automatic weapon in public not locked in a gun case sentenced to an automatic 3 years in prison. Loses privileges for life. (Not at home...not at a gun range.)

The objective of my suggestions is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, to put teeth in the laws we currently have on the books, and give law enforcement the tools it needs to get guns off the streets that are owned by crooks.

I know everyone will object to registering guns. But other than our own government turning against us, can you think of any other good reason?
Are these so horrible? There has to be a way to balance our right to own guns against public safety. I think the inexorable tide is moving toward more restrictions. Which, if any, of these suggestions could you support? What restrictions might you add?

Please do not send me through the wood chipper.

To the bolded: one very important reason imo: the right to privacy.

 

[mike2810]

There are laws that say you can't have a gun within 1000' of a school. Didn't stop the shooting.

"Forbidding people on mood altering drugs from owning guns". MD.
that won't stop them from getting weapons. Alchohol, marijuana, can alter moods. The question is how far do we go with such a law?

Personally, I think we need to look long and hard at how our country is changing in social structure and acceptance. That is changes in family structure, more acceptance of drug use, it is not my fault, everyone is a winner, you owe me mentality. etc.

Do we have more mentally ill kids, or is it just being reported more? What are the causes. A law will not stop the killing.

 

[madman]

These laws won't make anyone more responsible. Can't you see that? Hell, in your edit you ADMIT that it won't stop the shootings. All it will do is give the state 3 more charges to levy against someone who has already committed a crime.

Ummmm... Knowing that they will land in jail if their neighbor or their own kid gets the gun and hurts anyone with it will make them responsible.

I thought you conservatives were all about "personal responsibility", no?
Sorry, but your wild wild west mentality is no longer practiced here in 2012.

 

[MaggieD]

Your suggestion on the medication is not well thought out I take Prozac for mild anxiety and I own a gun if I stoped because I no longer felt I needed my medication should I loose my gun. Most medicines like Prozac are supposed to be used in conjunction with therapy and eventually remove the medication as you have adjusted yourself to no longer needing it.

From Rx List:

WARNING
SUICIDALITY AND ANTIDEPRESSANT DRUGS
Antidepressants increased the risk compared to placebo of suicidal thinking and behavior (suicidality) in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies of Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders. Anyone considering the use of PROZAC (fluoxetine hcl) or any other antidepressant in a child, adolescent, or young adult must balance this risk with the clinical need. Short-term studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidality with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults beyond age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressants compared to placebo in adults aged 65 and older. Depression and certain other psychiatric disorders are themselves associated with increases in the risk of suicide. Patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy should be monitored appropriately and observed closely for clinical worsening, suicidality, or unusual changes in behavior. Families and caregivers should be advised of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber. PROZAC (fluoxetine hcl) is approved for use in pediatric patients with MDD and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) [see WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS and Use in Specific Populations].

 

[haymarket]

Disclaimer: I own a gun. I've taken formal training in home protection. I shoot occasionally. I believe in the right to own guns. I come from a family who reveres gun ownership.

Having said that. Is it not possible that gun owners could lead us toward more responsible gun ownership? Could we not become part of the solution instead of being perceived as most of the problem? "How could they do that," you ask:

• All guns registered.
• Permits required in all states.
• Monthly background checks. If failed, permit revoked; guns collected.
• Mandatory 3-day waiting period to purchase.
• Automatic sentence of 3 years in prison for being caught with an unregistered gun or w/o a permit. Loses privileges for life.
• Anyone who is convicted of a violent crime loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone who has had a Protection Order put on them loses their gun privileges for life.
• Anyone on prescription medication for depression or mood problems loses their gun privileges for five years after they've stopped such medication. (Nor can anyone in their household.) (Drugs like Prozac, Lithium, etc.)
• Anyone caught in public with an automatic weapon in public not locked in a gun case sentenced to an automatic 3 years in prison. Loses privileges for life. (Not at home...not at a gun range.)

The objective of my suggestions is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, to put teeth in the laws we currently have on the books, and give law enforcement the tools it needs to get guns off the streets that are owned by crooks.

I know everyone will object to registering guns. But other than our own government turning against us, can you think of any other good reason?

Are these so horrible? There has to be a way to balance our right to own guns against public safety. I think the inexorable tide is moving toward more restrictions. Which, if any, of these suggestions could you support? What restrictions might you add?

Please do not send me through the wood chipper.

Maggie - I applaud you for your efforts and honesty here. I agree that one can either be part of a constructive solution or they are simply obstacles that contribute to the problem.

The average American wants a firearm for personal protection or sports usage. As such, I believe they can see the difference in weapons and what a person needs and what simply is pushing of new and more advance and bigger and better technology. I think the average person has no sympathy for the argument that they need weapons on a par with the military or police so they can do battle with either when it comes to the revolution someday.

You win Best Post of the Day.

 

[lizzie]

Personally, I think we need to look long and hard at how our country is changing in social structure and acceptance. That is changes in family structure, more acceptance of drug use, it is not my fault, everyone is a winner, you owe me mentality. etc.

Do we have more mentally ill kids, or is it just being reported more? What are the causes. A law will not stop the killing.

I believe we have more mentally ill kids, because they aren't getting what they need psychologically and socially, from parents and society at large. They are getting their material needs met, but it's at the cost of getting their psychological needs met.

 

[VanceMack]

Why the hell should twenty kindergartners pay the price??

Forbidding people on mood altering drugs from owning guns is not gun-grabber legislation. Neither is forbidding those who have mental illness. What specific ones are you objecting to so vehemently?

Maggie...NONE of the laws you proposed would have changed that situation.Surely you see that. What you WOULD do is give the government a list and location of every LAW ABIDING armed citizen and the means by which to seize their weapons when the NEXT wave of laws comes along. Now...people would say that will never happen. Really? A month ago...no one would have believed pro firearm owners would even accept this as a possibility, let alone propose it.

 

[clownboy]

Ummmm... Knowing that they will land in jail if their neighbor or their own kid gets the gun and hurts anyone with it will make them responsible.

I thought you conservatives were all about "personal responsibility", no?
Sorry, but your wild wild west mentality is no longer practiced here in 2012.

Considering the gun owner in this case was the first to go, such laws are nonsensical. I suppose we could jail her corpse if it'd make you feel better.

Once again, you can't legislate for crazy.

 

[MaggieD]

Maggie...NONE of the laws you proposed would have changed that situation.Surely you see that. What you WOULD do is give the government a list and location of every LAW ABIDING armed citizen and the means by which to seize their weapons when the NEXT wave of laws comes along. Now...people would say that will never happen. Really? A month ago...no one would have believed pro firearm owners would even accept this as a possibility, let alone propose it.

See, I basically agree with this. But still. Avid gun owners like you and Turtle and so many others on this site, should lead the way not block the road. Are background checks a good thing? I say they are, absolutely. So. Then what good is a background check if it only takes place once every five years? And if someone fails it, the only thing that happens is they get to own their current guns illegally. Makes no sense.

I just think that every responsible gun owner would demand that others be responsible as well.

I still firmly believe that the reason we have so many young white males pulling this **** is because of the violence they've been subjected to all of their lives . . . and the fact that many of them have been or were on mood-altering drugs. I find it interesting that whether or not these shooters are on Prozac/Lithium/AllTheRest isn't widely covered in the news. It should be the very first question authorities ask -- and the very first thing reported to the public at large.

 

[madman]

Considering the gun owner in this case was the first to go, such laws are nonsensical. I suppose we could jail her corpse if it'd make you feel better.

Once again, you can't legislate for crazy.

a responsible persons would have the guns secured. Dont let those pesky facts get in the way now.

 

[haymarket]

See, I basically agree with this. But still. Avid gun owners like you and Turtle and so many others on this site, should lead the way not block the road.

But it seems like blocking the road is indeed the highest priority of some.

Do you see why I have repeatedly posted that there is NO answer to this problem? Those on the far right of the gun issue have publicly, frequently and loudly announced they they intend to use a lethal hecklers veto against the nation should they every lose the political debate on this issue. Some have gone as far as to announce that they would use their guns to kill others who did not see it their way. As such, nothing will be done about it because average decent people simply are not willing to wade through that deep of a lake of pure crap and put up with their murderous ways. So we let a score of kids get killed instead and put up with their crap.

 

[TurtleDude]

a responsible persons would have the guns secured. Dont let those pesky facts get in the way now.

so you assume the guns were just easily available?

 

[madman]

so you assume the guns were just easily available?

If the guns are locked up and secured, then there's no problem.

 

[MaggieD]

But it seems like blocking the road is indeed the highest priority of some.

I'm sure these people see it as the camel's nose under the tent. In fact, it is. But I would think there could/should be a balance between the right of law-abiding citizens to possess as many firearms as they want and the rights of others to be safe in our schools, shopping malls, etc., etc.

 

[TurtleDude]

But it seems like blocking the road is indeed the highest priority of some.

some of us realize that emotional responses to tragedies that are used by scheming politicians to rip away a right is not a logical response

why should anyone wait if the BCI check is as accurate as anything that can be done in a week (it is)

why should anyone register weapons so if there is a hurricane your weapons can be confiscated as they were in NO

why should anyone register weapons when criminals are exempt

most of the stuff she suggested is idiotic

 

[madman]

But it seems like blocking the road is indeed the highest priority of some.

that's is your opinion. You can't prove that can you?

 

[TurtleDude]

If the guns are locked up and secured, then there's no problem.

you think someone who plotted the murder of his mother and dozens of others was not going to be able to get her weapons after he killed her?

 

[madman]

some of us realize that emotional responses to tragedies that are used by scheming politicians to rip away a right is not a logical response

why should anyone wait if the BCI check is as accurate as anything that can be done in a week (it is)

why should anyone register weapons so if there is a hurricane your weapons can be confiscated as they were in NO

why should anyone register weapons when criminals are exempt

most of the stuff she suggested is idiotic

Turtle,

What would you suggest? I mean not to prevent such killings, BUT to try to minimize them.