Never let a crisis go to waste

[Citizen]

Well, it is obvious that you have no understanding of how data gets into NICS. For example, the Biden administration, the VA was ordered to report veterans that had someone taking care of their finances (fiduciary responsibility) as incompetent. Of course that is blatantly illegal, but the VA did it and those folks were denied their 2A rights.

What I understand is that people like Robin Westman continues to purchase guns legally

 

[bythoughts]

Do you understand what the word LIKE means or are you just trolling because you have no argument. Just admit that you don’t give a shit about mass shootings and move on

I don't understand how you, without a crystal ball, would identify Westman in advance or any group of people "like" Westman (and I have no idea what the membership of that group is) as a particular threat.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

We are talking about firearms here, so stay on topic

Comparing guns to other objects is legitimate.

LOL, Dome people, in fact most people who mass shooters use large don’t have a criminal record.

LOL! I had to stop and think for a minute to figure out that typo. I was like "what in the world are dome people?" But the "D" and the "S" are right next to each other on the keyboard, so I figured it out. It gave me a chuckle though.

At any rate, without a criminal record there is no justification for preventing someone from having a gun. There is no reason for a background check to look at other factors when those other factors cannot prevent a gun purchase.

Do you understand more extensive background checks. Do you know what that means?

What is the point when nothing in the extended check justifies depriving someone of a gun?

I guess you are another one who do not care about crazy ass people spraying bullets in churches and schools.

I said I would agree to magazine restrictions so long as all law enforcement has to comply with the same restrictions.

Show me where in the constitution it says we cannot regulate gun. Especially ghost guns

I didn't say they couldn't be regulated. In fact I specifically said that it was okay to require a serial number on them if they were sold.

I just said that they couldn't be banned.

 

[RF667799]

Well, it is obvious that you have no understanding of how data gets into NICS. For example, the Biden administration, the VA was ordered to report veterans that had someone taking care of their finances (fiduciary responsibility) as incompetent. Of course that is blatantly illegal, but the VA did it and those folks were denied their 2A rights.

Remember in Cool Hand Luke how when Luke's mother died, the camp warden had Luke put "in the box" for awhile just to be safe?

I dunno...just reminded of that for some reason.

 

[JMB1911A1]

What I understand is that people like Robin Westman continues to purchase guns legally

That is because people like Robert Westman have a mental disorder that is enabled by the policies of the Democrat party.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Way to miss the point entirely. NOBODY gets shot without a gun.

LOL!

Nobody drowns in a bathtub without a bathtub.

Also - there are accidental gun discharges. There are also a number of shootings, accidental, by toddlers.

Don't forget the accidental bathtub drownings.

Not worth replying. Might as well be renamed "NRAbot."

You do realize that the Ostrich defense doesn't actually work. Reality is still out there even when you pretend otherwise.

They still get shot because there are guns. Such a simple thing to understand, for most people...

People drown in bathtubs because there are bathtubs. Oh the humanity.

It's a perfect illustration of how, overall, guns don't make things safer, they make things more dangerous.

Actually one of the things that guns provide is protection. At any rate, whatever their downsides, they are outweighed by their benefits.

Guns are also the leading cause of death in children (U.S. only).

No they aren't.

View attachment 67586938

Fake news. Bogus data.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

To be fair, there wouldn't be so many crisis if we would just stop making guns to readily available.

Guns are worth any potential downsides.

Righties are big on "shall not be infringed" and appear to have no awareness of a "well regulated militia."

Nonsense. We are fully aware of the clause. It's not really relevant to this discussion, but we are fully aware of it.

Do you have any questions about the first half of the Second Amendment that I can answer?

The GOP has cut mental healthcare funding, so they really need to shut up about that.

Got any proof that they have cut mental health spending?

In any case, no. Republicans do not need to stop telling the truth, even if they had passed such cuts.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

This appears confirmed as an injustice (veterans who are unable to manage financial affairs may not be a danger to self or others, and it is not a determination in a court with a proper defense). However, it has apparently been going on since 1998.

Wasn't a law passed to put an end to that?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Yup! This particular response from them is even more cynical than usual.

If you don't want to take care of people who are suffering a mental health crisis, don't complain when someone snaps and lashes out.

 

[snowynight]

"NO. The militia are the PEOPLE, fighting for their rights in DEFENSE of democracy. Fighting after the government CANNOT or WILL NOT do its job to fight for them."

As far as I'm concerned, that's Republican congress and the Supreme Court right now. Our president is calling emergency after emergency to build an authoritarian state and they do nothing. We're about to get the national guard and perhaps military all over the country. I sort of feel like a civil war is starting, but let's face it. Confronting military would be stupid.

It is true that LGBT people have been getting more guns as of the past few years for protection. That is their right, but I really hope most people aren't trying to kill them because they're decent people.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

The well regulated militia part is twisted into none existence by gun fans.

No it isn't.

However, it is in a different section of the Second Amendment. It wouldn't come up much in a gun control discussion.

They argue about the minutia of the law and then ignore that bit.

Stuff that has no relevance to a discussion is frequently passed over.

Do you have any questions about it that I can answer?

 

[Plasmaball]

Well, Democrats are at it again. Calling for infringing the rights of Americans who have done nothing wrong after a mentally deranged trans kills kids.

The problem is not firearm designs that have existed for over 60 years. It is the new align of mental illness in our society. Illness enabled by the Democrats.

MN already has background checks on all sales and red flag laws. Nobody reported the sick ****.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz says it's time to 'take serious action' after deadly school shooting

Gov. Tim Walz pushes for action on gun violence after a fatal shooting at a Minneapolis Catholic school left two children dead and over a dozen others injured.

www.foxnews.com

Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey, others call for gun control after Annunciation shooting

The mass shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church in Minneapolis is again sparking a push for something to change.

www.cbsnews.com

https://www.npr.org/2025/08/28/nx-s1-5519765/minneapolis-mass-shooting-gun-reform

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/27/politics/democrats-gun-control-minneapolis

You all set here with your hate posting?

 

[JMB1911A1]

You all set here with your hate posting?

No hate. Just facts.

The only hatred I see is from the Democrat party against people exercising their civil rights.

 

[snowynight]

That is because people like Robert Westman have a mental disorder that is enabled by the policies of the Democrat party.

Oh, good grief! You know, both parties promote stuff that the other side feels leads out to violence. Anti-migrant and racist rhetoric have also lead out to mass shootings over the years. Guess which party promotes those two ideas.

Westman was an evil person. The truth is there are plenty of people who feel marginalized for one reason or another who don't murder children. Most trans people do not murder people. In fact, trans people are more likely to be assaulted than the other way around. BTW, most mentally ill people also don't murder children. We need a value system. I don't mean gender affirming or not gender affirming. I mean basics. Do not kill people. Do not threaten bodily harm.

 

[CLAX1911]

How is that a strawman?

Because you misrepresented the point and it's painfully obvious. No the toddler isn't to blame. The person who loaded the gun and left it laying around for a toddler to find is.

Maybe don't operate in such bad faith and you won't be accused of strawman fallacies.

It's a perfect rejoinder to the claim that people are responsible for shooting other people, not guns.

No gun in the history of humanity ever shot anybody.

Accidental discharge and toddlers.

Did the gun load itself did the gun put itself in the reach of a toddler?

It's a perfect illustration of how, overall, guns don't make things safer, they make things more dangerous.

No guns don't do anything people through carelessness or malice make things dangerous. I've been in buildings with thousands of guns and I was never in any danger.

 

[Plasmaball]

Sure I do. It is right there in the Constitution. The one that the Democrats want to shit all over.

Ooo we talking about shitting all over rights?

This is hilarious

 

[CLAX1911]

Stupid analogies don’t test logic.

The way you proven analogy is stupid is you engage with it and rip the logical part you can't do that because the analogy isn't stupid it breaks your logic you are afraid of it you thus you are afraid to engage with it.

It's okay anytime you say stupid analogy and you don't engage with it it's just a confession.

Now if you could temper your ego a little bit you might be able to learn something.

I compared gun background checks to background checks for people who foster kids, work with kids or apply for a job with the FBI. Of course you pretended you didn’t read it

Watch how I destroy your analogy.

When we do a background check for a foster parent do you have to fill out a 4473 form or is it an actual background check?

The so-called background checks for firearms are not really background checks it's a scam to set up an illegal registry.

Point of note regarding that is why did they record the serial number on the firearm what would you need that for to do a background check? You shouldn't need to know if it has a serial number if it's a shotgun if it's a Remington because all of these things don't really have any validity on whether or not you can kill somebody with it.

So if you want to simp about background checks you should probably support the existence of them in the first place instead of this stupid little game people play to sidestep the law.

 

[Plasmaball]

No hate. Just facts.

The only hatred I see is from the Democrat party against people exercising their civil rights.

Lol...just straight to the bullshit

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

LOL!

Nobody drowns in a bathtub without a bathtub.



Don't forget the accidental bathtub drownings.



You do realize that the Ostrich defense doesn't actually work. Reality is still out there even when you pretend otherwise.



People drown in bathtubs because there are bathtubs. Oh the humanity.



Actually one of the things that guns provide is protection. At any rate, whatever their downsides, they are outweighed by their benefits.



No they aren't.



Fake news. Bogus data.

 

[RF667799]

View attachment 67586943

Must hurt to have so many of your poor arguments utterly demolished by someone you imply is a robot.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Must hurt to have so many of your poor arguments utterly demolished by someone you imply is a robot.

Please. Have you read his "arguments"? Zero thought put into them. 100% against any point, no room for discussion. His arguments are pitiful even for a gun nutter. You might as well print boilerplate pro-gun talking points inside a Magic 8-Ball.

 

[Citizen]

I don't understand how you, without a crystal ball, would identify Westman in advance or any group of people "like" Westman (and I have no idea what the membership of that group is) as a particular threat.

That what extensive background checks are for. Either that or throw your hands up in the air and do nothing

 

[RF667799]

Please. Have you read his "arguments"? Zero thought put into them. 100% against any point, no room for discussion. His arguments are pitiful even for a gun nutter. You might as well print boilerplate pro-gun talking points inside a Magic 8-Ball.

I noticed instead of refuting him, you decided on the equivalent of calling names.

 

[Citizen]

At any rate, without a criminal record there is no justification for preventing someone from having a gun. There is no reason for a background check to look at other factors when those other factors cannot prevent a gun purchase.



What is the point when nothing in the extended check justifies depriving someone of a gun?



I said I would agree to magazine restrictions so long as all law enforcement has to comply with the same restrictions.



I didn't say they couldn't be regulated. In fact I specifically said that it was okay to require a serial number on them if they were sold.

I just said that they couldn't be banned.

The justification for preventing someone from getting a gun is to prevent mass murders. Just like we have background checks to prevent certain people from working with children

 

[RF667799]

That what extensive background checks are for. Either that or throw your hands up in the air and do nothing

How extensive would you like the background checks to be, keeping in mind they are required to exercise a Constitutional right.