Nearly correct – “Muslims built the fabric of our nation”

[Chagos]

Don't be oblique. Just say what you mean.

I did.

Seeing how one may wonder as to your heritage, a precise assessment is obviously not feasible. On account of still wondering, get it?

 

[ashurbanipal]

I realize others have pointed this out (kudos to them), but I have to jump in as well:

Here's what the article says Obama said:

Mr. Obama says this frequently – “Muslims built the very fabric of our nation.” He made the remark again just the other day.

Now, here's the relevant excerpt from Obama's statement about the end of Ramadan, with the salient passage bolded.

In the United States, Eid also reminds us of the many achievements and contributions of Muslim Americans to building the very fabric of our nation and strengthening the core of our democracy. That is why we stand with people of all faiths, here at home and around the world, to protect and advance their rights to prosper, and we welcome their commitment to giving back to their communities.

Talk about twisting someone's words. A contribution isn't the whole thing. Are there Muslims who go to work in this country? Are there Muslims doctors and lawyers, judges, businesspeople, chefs, garbage collectors, retail store managers, college professors, factory line workers, plumbers, carpenters, taxi drivers, psychiatrists, artists, etc.? If so (as there clearly are) then Muslims have contributed to building the fabric of our country.

That's not the same as saying they built the fabric of our country, which means, by implicature, that they built all of it. That's not what Obama said, and no reasonable person would hear what he actually said and think he meant Muslims built all of the fabric of our country. That would be downright silly, but in the hands of the author of this article, it's downright vicious, because it perpetuates a myth which just further divides neighbor from neighbor in this nation.

 

[zyzygy]

They did not invent everything but they contributed significant parts of it. That was not their only accomplishment, they also made advances in medicine, literature, etc.

You know these things: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0. Guess where they are form.

India.

 

[RAMOSS]

Yeah, somehow I missed all those movies about Muslim frontiersmen, and Muslim cowboys, and great Muslim generals of the US army in history, and great American-Muslim statesmen and... hmmm....

Yes, but isn't it great that is a total mistrepresentation about what Obama actually said?? It's based on a misrepresentation that is biased about both Muslims and the president, and preying on peoples prejudices.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

They're both at least 2 centuries too late to have built our nation.

Uh what? What does the article have anything about "building our nation" other than using a false quote and attributing it to Obama?

 

[coldjoint]

link ???

Jefferson and Adams wrote: “The Ambassador answered us, that (the aggression) was founded on the laws of their Prophet; that it was written in their Koran, that all nationals who should not have acknowledged their authority, were sinners; that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners; and that every Mussulman who was slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

https://www.truthorfiction.com/jefferson-vs-muslims/

Let us not call this view reductionist. Jefferson would perhaps have been just as eager to send a squadron to put down any Christian piracy that was restraining commerce. But one cannot get around what Jefferson heard when he went with John Adams to wait upon Tripoli’s ambassador to London in March 1785. When
they inquired by what right the Barbary states preyed upon American shipping, enslaving both crews and passengers, America’s two foremost envoys were informed that “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” (It is worth noting that the United States played no part in the Crusades, or in the Catholic reconquista of Andalusia.)

Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates | City Journal

 

[ChezC3]

When verbosity goes ape, it's obvious to any thinking person what's transpired.

When it goes a-gish-galloping, no more need be said.

What remains is that the article cited in the OP engaged in a mis-quote that considerably misrepresents the message of what was actually said originally.

Case closed.

:lamo

Reading more than a sentence or two makes you go stinky, eh?

Push on...

 

[ChezC3]

Our heritage is Christian. We should not grovel to subversive minorities like the Jews and the Muslims.

FYI Jesus was a Jew...

 

[dolphinocean]

They did not invent everything but they contributed significant parts of it. That was not their only accomplishment, they also made advances in medicine, literature, etc.

You know these things: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0. Guess where they are form.

They made advances in medicine, literature, etc?


Really?


The 27th century BC medicine of Imhotep is far more advance and original than the so-called "medicine" of muslim founder mohammed the snake-oil salesman. Even the 4th century BC medicine of Hippocrates, which later follows by Galen, far outweigh mohammed's voodoo fix. And before mohammed was yet born and there was yet such thing as "islam" or "muslims", Syriac Christians, such as Sergius of Resh' Aina (Ra's al-Ain), who studied medicine in Alexandria before his death in 532 AD, had already translated some 26 of Galen's books and other Greek medical corpus into Syraic. They also founded many medical schools in Persia, one of which that was founded in 555 AD, the great medical school of Jundishapur, was in what is now the south-east Iran. While the ancient medical science was marching on, the first muslim, i.e. mohammed, wasn't born until 570 AD.


Let's see what the founder of islam teaches in the field of medicine:

Sahih Bukhari 4:54:537


​

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."


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Sahih Bukhari 7:71:621


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The Prophet said, "Fever is from the heat of Hell, so abate fever with water."

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Sahih Bukhari 7:71:590


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The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy.

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Abu Dawud 1:66


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Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.

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Sahih Bukhari 7:71:614


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Narrated Abu Said: A man came to the prophet and said, 'My brother has got loose motions. The Prophet said, Let him drink honey." The man again (came) and said, 'I made him drink (honey) but that made him worse.' The Prophet said, 'Allah has said the Truth, and the abdomen of your brother has told a lie."

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Sahih Bukhari 7:65:366


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Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said, 'When you eat, do not wipe your hands till you have licked it, or had it licked by somebody else."

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Sahih Bukhari 9:87:115


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Narrated Abu Qatada: The Prophet said, "A good dream that comes true is from Allah, and a bad dream is from Satan, so if anyone of you sees a bad dream, he should seek refuge with Allah from Satan and should spit on the left, for the bad dream will not harm him."

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Sahih Bukhari 1:4:139


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Narrated 'Abbas bin Tamim: My uncle asked Allah's Apostle about a person who imagined to have passed wind during the prayer. Allah' Apostle replied: "He should not leave his prayers unless he hears sound or smells something."

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Ibn Sa'd's Kitab Tabaqat Al-Kubra, Volume 8, Page 200


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Waqidi said: “The prophet of Allah used to say that I was among those who have little strength for intercourse. Then Allah sent me a pot with cooked meat. After I ate from it, I found strength any time I wanted to do the work.”

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Sahih Muslim 23:5022


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Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: None of you should drink while standing; and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.

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Quran 76:2

We create man from a drop of thickened fluid.



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Quran 86:6-7

He is created from a drop emitted - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.

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[dolphinocean]

The above are mohammed's teaching on "medicine". If those are your so-called muslims' advance in medicine, then by all means dip the fly in your drink or swallow a cup of camel urine whenever you feel like the heat of hell has come upon you with high body temp. As to literature, there is hardly any. Mohammed despises even the poets:

Sahih Muslim 28:5611

Abu Sa`id Khudri reported: We were going with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). As we reached the place (known as) Arj there met (us) a poet who had been reciting poetry. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Catch the satan or detain the satan, for filling the belly of a man with pus is better than stuffing his brain with poetry.​

In fact, he had most of the poets in Arabia killed. As to archaeological artifacts and ancient architecture there is none except desert sands and the black box called kaabah, which wasn't even built by mohammed or his followers, but like everything else islamic, it was hijacked and repackaged as islamic sanctuary.


Muslims built the very fabric of our nation? Well, if you want to call flying two planes into the twin towers or trying unsuccessfully to blow up Time Square with car bomb, or blowing up an airplane loaded with hundreds of innocent souls with explosives hidden in the shoes or underwear as building a nation, then who could argue with that kind of logic?


Yeah, if that means building a nation, then muslims during mohammed's time and soon after did just that by burning down the Alexandria Library, the Egyptian ancient monuments, ancient Cathedrals and Hindu temples. And of course the islamic way of building a nation is even faithfully carried out by muslims in our modern time. So, the Afghan talibans build their islamic nation by blowing up the buddha statutes of Bamiyan. The isis build theirs by blowing up ancient architectures of Palmyra in Syria and destroyed many other ancient artifacts in Iraq. And in Belgium, devout muslims blow up an international airport and subway station in their contribution to building up the nation that took them in and nature them as refugees. Those are truly muslims contribution to our nation and many others.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

The above are mohammed's teaching on "medicine". If those are your so-called muslims' advance in medicine, then by all means dip the fly in your drink or swallow a cup of camel urine whenever you feel like the heat of hell has come upon you with high body temp. As to literature, there is hardly any. Mohammed despises even the poets:

Sahih Muslim 28:5611

Abu Sa`id Khudri reported: We were going with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). As we reached the place (known as) Arj there met (us) a poet who had been reciting poetry. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Catch the satan or detain the satan, for filling the belly of a man with pus is better than stuffing his brain with poetry.​

In fact, he had most of the poets in Arabia killed. As to archaeological artifacts and ancient architecture there is none except desert sands and the black box called kaabah, which wasn't even built by mohammed or his followers, but like everything else islamic, it was hijacked and repackaged as islamic sanctuary.


Muslims built the very fabric of our nation? Well, if you want to call flying two planes into the twin towers or trying unsuccessfully to blow up Time Square with car bomb, or blowing up an airplane loaded with hundreds of innocent souls with explosives hidden in the shoes or underwear, then we could argue with that logic?


Yeah, if that means building a nation, then muslims during mohammed's time and soon after did just that by burning down the Alexandria Library, the Egyptian ancient monuments, ancient Cathedrals and Hindu temples. And of course the islamic way of building a nation is even faithfully carried out by muslims in our modern time. So, the Afghan talibans build their islamic nation by blowing up the buddha statutes of Bamiyan. The isis build theirs by blowing up ancient architectures of Palmyra in Syria and destroyed many other ancient artifacts in Iraq. And in Belgium, devout muslims blow up an international airport in their contribution to building up the nation that took them in and nature them as refugees. Those are truly muslims contribution to our nation and many others.

What makes you think that the library of Alexandria was destroyed during the Muslim invasion, and not 300 years earlier on the order of pope theophillus ?

 

[Chagos]

:lamo

Reading more than a sentence or two makes you go stinky, eh?

Push on...

You think I even bother with stuff like that after the first five words?

 

[dolphinocean]

What makes you think that the library of Alexandria was destroyed during the Muslim invasion, and not 300 years earlier on the order of pope theophillus ?

Theophillus did not order the destruction of the Alexandria Library. It was Emperor Theodosius I who ordered the demolition of the heathen temples in Alexandria, not the Alexandria Library. That was in 391 AD. In 642 AD, during the islamic conquest of Egypt the Library of Alexandria was destroyed by jihadists of Amr, by the order of the Caliph Omar.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Theophillus did not order the destruction of the Alexandria Library. It was Emperor Theodosius I who ordered the demolition of the heathen temples in Alexandria, not the Alexandria Library. That was in 391 AD. In 642 AD, during the islamic conquest of Egypt the Library of Alexandria was destroyed by jihadists of Amr, by the order of the Caliph Omar.

The story you are claiming to have happened was written 500 years after the fact.

Also

Alas, this story is almost certainly apocryphal, invented in the 12th century. If Omar burned a library, it was probably a Christian library in a church built on the site of the daughter library.

The Straight Dope: What happened to the great library of Alexandria?

 

[coldjoint]

You think I even bother with stuff like that after the first five words?

There you go again. Why don't you just blog your apologies?

 

[dolphinocean]

The story you are claiming to have happened was written 500 years after the fact.

Also



The Straight Dope: What happened to the great library of Alexandria?

Yeah, that's what modern scholars, or shall I say islamic apologists would like you to believe. They simply have to deny it and voila! It's all straight dope. Therefore, accounts attributed to Saladin or written by Abd'l Latif of Baghdad (1162–1231), Al-Qifti (1172–1248) and Syriac Christian author Bar-Hebraeus (1226–1286), who translated from earlier sources are all wrong but modern scholars like Bernard Lewis, Edward Gibbon and Alfred Butler are correct?

But, in our times the Afghan taliban and isis prove the modern islamic apologists all wrong and validated the earlier sources correct.

 

[Chagos]

https://www.truthorfiction.com/jefferson-vs-muslims/



Jefferson Versus the Muslim Pirates | City Journal

So the confrontation with barbary piracy was primarily the US's first confrontation with Islam?

Doesn't seem to bother you that initial contact with Morocco leading up to the friendship treaty was well before that.

That's of course taking nothing away from what the Tripoli ambassador said but it's also taking nothing away from the fact that neither Tripoli nor Algiers are (or were at the time) in Morocco. Nor that the Sultan of latter state placed American vessels under his protection against the same barbary states.

Interesting links nevertheless, also wrt to the second one, this

Frank Lambert, argues that the imperative of free trade drove America much more than did any quarrel with Islam or “tyranny,” let alone “terrorism.” He resists any comparison with today’s tormenting confrontations. “The Barbary Wars were primarily about trade, not theology,” he writes. “Rather than being holy wars, they were an extension of America’s War of Independence.”

Hmmm.......thought as much

 

[Chagos]

There you go again. Why don't you just blog your apologies?

I wasn't responding to you.

I was responding to someone whose response to my rebuttal of his post was as lacking in substance as is yours here.

Sooooh?

You got anything to say on the issue of misquote?

Or do facts presented by me just irk you to the point of being unable to keep from sniding in at any opportunity with some irrelevancy?

Pretty lame performance you're showing.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Yeah, that's what modern scholars, or shall I say islamic apologists would like you to believe. They simply have to deny it and voila! It all straight dope. Therefore, accounts attributed to Saladin or written by Abd'l Latif of Baghdad (1162–1231), Al-Qifti (1172–1248) and Syriac Christian author Bar-Hebraeus (1226–1286), who translated from earlier sources are all wrong but modern scholars like Bernard Lewis, Edward Gibbon and Alfred Butler are correct?

This is not about finding which source is right or wrong, this is about identifying potential biases in the historical accounts and being objective about identifying accurate and reliable sources.

Funny you should mention Saladin, whose conquest of the city of Cairo contributed to the making of his reputation. He may have needed historical precedent to justify some of his actions, so how fortunate is he that he found a questionable account of the library of Alexandria's destruction in order to justify his destruction of his rivals religious documents.

 

[Chagos]

Yeah, that's what modern scholars, or shall I say islamic apologists would like you to believe. They simply have to deny it and voila! It's all straight dope. Therefore, accounts attributed to Saladin or written by Abd'l Latif of Baghdad (1162–1231), Al-Qifti (1172–1248) and Syriac Christian author Bar-Hebraeus (1226–1286), who translated from earlier sources are all wrong but modern scholars like Bernard Lewis, Edward Gibbon and Alfred Butler are correct?

But, in our times the Afghan taliban and isis prove the modern islamic apologists all wrong and validated the earlier sources correct.

You hold Edward Gibbon to be modern? And an apologist to boot?

Interesting.

 

[coldjoint]

I wasn't responding to you.

I was responding to someone whose response to my rebuttal of his post was as lacking in substance as is yours here.

Sooooh?

You got anything to say on the issue of misquote?

Or do facts presented by me just irk you to the point of being unable to keep from sniding in at any opportunity with some irrelevancy?

Pretty lame performance you're showing.

Yes I do. No matter what the quote embodies Obamas whitewashing of Islam is based on lies. And the Koran will show that, and you know it.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Yes I do. No matter what the quote embodies Obamas whitewashing of Islam is based on lies. And the Koran will show that, and you know it.

The book does not dictate a man's actions, it is how the man applies what he read from the book.

There are ways for Muslims to wage jihad that do not involve acts of killing or violence.

 

[coldjoint]

The book does not dictate a man's actions, it is how the man applies what he read from the book.

There are ways for Muslims to wage jihad that do not involve acts of killing or violence.

93% of verses about jihad involve violence or suggest it.

"164 Jihad Verses in the Koran -- Passages in the Quran about Islamic Holy War" compiled by Yoel Natan

 

[Chagos]

Yes I do. No matter what the quote embodies Obamas whitewashing of Islam is based on lies. And the Koran will show that, and you know it.

Okay, nothing.

As I thought.

Maybe you should start all further posts with "butbutbutbut", sticking a finger in each ear in the process. Cuz that's the image you're conveying at least to me, what with you so far not having presented any pertinent argument I can see, let alone having backed it by something remotely resembling debate, not to mention credible data outside of the customary Islamophobe blogging swamp.

All you got is along the lines of "never mind who lied, I'm right, so there".

Jesus wept

 

[Unitedwestand13]

93% of verses about jihad involve violence or suggest it.

"164 Jihad Verses in the Koran -- Passages in the Quran about Islamic Holy War" compiled by Yoel Natan

A book does not speak for all men.

Find actual Muslims and discuss what jihad means to them.