- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Messages
- 5,395
- Reaction score
- 2,782
- Location
- Minneapolis
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Other
LOL, your article clearly states that this is the highest estimate and that credible estimates go as low as 900,000.
Your own article states that credible estimates put the number as low as 900,000.
I'm pretty sure that the settlers in North America were more interested in getting away from religious persecution.
Well aside from the fact that not one of the three countries which you listed are in the Middle East, besides Kharzai we didn't do anything which could even be construed as installing them, and Musharaff actively worked against U.S. interests.
in his defense, although i can't prove it.....i'll bet that most of the people who believe he is muslim are also racist. that ignorance goes hand in hand.
And irony raises its ugly head.
Some people also think he is a Kenyan citizen who stole the presidency.
And some even think he is a Communist Nazi terrorist, who eats babies. :mrgreen:
What a stupid thing to say. Most liberals are christian.
I stand by that remark. There's a lot of hatred on these boards towards Christian's, but not Muslim's.
I stand by that remark. There's a lot of hatred on these boards towards Christian's, but not Muslim's.
Might I suggest it's in your best interest to be more specific.
I wish you didn't have that user name. I actually love jambalaya, it's my specialty.
I took the name because it is also one of my specialties. I can make a helluva gumbo too. Surely you are not saying my opinions are distasteful (pun intended).
Totally OT: PM me your recipe? Mine is completely bastardized, what with me being in the north and figuring it out myself and all. Please?
I never said the United States inserts puppet dictators in the Middle East, although we do. I said that one of the major reasons we are targeted by terrorist organizations was for installing puppet dictators in general.
I was trying to keep my arguments to the Middle East region because that's what you wanted to argue about,
but that region certainly doesn't contain the best examples. Historically, our puppet dictators have been installed in other parts of the world -- places like Honduras (Roberto Cordova) and Taiwan (Chiang Kai-shek), El Salvador (Cristiani), South Vietnam (Ngo Dinh Diem), and in Africa -- Liberia (Samuel Doe), Zaire (Mobuto Sese Seko) and Morocco (Hassan II).
The Carter Administration inserted Ferdinand Marcos in the Phillipines.
The CIA backed Efrain Rios Montt's campaign to oust the leadership in Guatemala.
We inserted Noriega in Panama.
We continued to support Ozal in Turkey despite the fact that he committed many of the same crimes we criticized Saddam Hussein for.
For 20 years, we backed Pahlevi in Iran, with the CIA managing daily operations to support his tactics of torture and violent suppression.
And remember Pinochet in Chile? Guess who led the effort to overthrow his predecessor?
These are not all examples of dictators that the United States flat out "installed," but most of them are,
and we financially supported every single one of them.
And the President in Azerjiban is widely viewed as a product of American influence, although it's hard to say what is and isn't true there.
As to the population of Native Americans, perhaps you should read more carefully. The estimate of 900,000 was credible at the time -- 100 years ago.
Since then, no attempt to discern the actual number has used such primitive methodology (they were estimates that were based on multiplying previously recorded estimates) and none have ever estimated the number to be so low. That's why I used the number 12 million, all of the most credibly studies hover around 12 million.
It's funny that you "clarified" that 18 million is the highest estimate, since my post SAID that's the highest estimate. Either way, there's a more important number -- .8%. Native Americans used to comprise 100% of this country, now they are .8% of the nation's demographic. We took their land,
brutally killed their men, women, and children,
and subsequently destroyed major portions of their languages and cultural traditions, then we forced them to convert to Christianity.
I'm not sure why you would want to defend these actions. It removes any credibility you might otherwise retain.
Yep and it doesn't excuse it but again you're deflecting the issue away from the tolerance they had over Christians and Jews.
Deflecting again.
The fact that they could go to a court and had a chance to argue their case was better than the persecutions in Europe.
We've discussed this already.
Except in the Ottoman empire this was not largely practiced and those Muslims largely did not do this.
Christian debate on persecution and toleration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It covers all the areas I mentioned.
Forced conversion, execution of heretics and expulsion.
All cataloged in the above link.
Which largely compared to Europe was better.
Yep but over the course of the Ottoman Empire, relations between the different religions, were better in the Ottoman Empire than they were in Europe.
So monotheistic religions are the only ones that count?
lol once again their testimony against a Muslim was worthless.
Muslims didn't practice Dawa in the Ottoman Empire? :roll:
All conducted by Muslims as well, the Ottoman Empire engaged in institutionalized forced conversion called Devşirme:
Dev
The Ottoman Empire executed heretics (apostates) until the Tanzimat reforms of 1839.
And the Ottoman Empire engaged in wide spread large scale forced expulsion:
Population transfer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It depends which European country and the period of the Ottoman Empire and European country you are talking about.
And what do you base this on?
Um...where did I say that? Please stop trying to bait.
I'm not baiting, I'm just stating the fact that for someone to say a bigoted thing, that thing has to be bad in the eyes of the person that thinks it is bigoted, or there would be no reason for that person to think it is bigoted…… is that too deep for you?
When talking about relations between Christians, Muslims and Jews, absolutely.
Not entirely, you're applying a concept as universal through out a kingdom, which wasn't true.
Were Christians and Jews lesser to the caliphate and sultan, yes.
Worthless as you say, not at all.
Didn't say that, "largely" doesn't mean "never."
That was a tax, for living in the empire.
It was not done by the sword and these people lived in very high status.
Yep, they weren't perfect.
Expulsion because of religious prejudice (being kicked out of a country) and transferring citizens (from one place to another inside the country) are two totally different things(these were done for economic and civil reasons).
You're being dishonest now.
I already listed them before, provided a link to back it up.
I'm not doing it again.
The historical record.
My brother used to grab my arm and use it to hit me in the face. Then he'd say: "why are you hitting yourself?" This is what your posts remind me of. I weep for anybody who debates you as though you have credibility.
i'm sorry, are you completely ignorant of the role Afghan troops are playing in Afghanistan? and they're certainly not Zoroastrians.
Cry your eyes out as it seems logic isn't your strongest feature.
For example:
Would you call me a bigot if I said Barry was a great guy? Of course not, I’m saying something nice about him…. Yet People are calling others bigots because they are calling him a Muslim, so in their minds being called a Muslim must be bad. QED.
Or because they felt that you think being a Muslim is bad. Nice attempt to twist things, but it really does not hold up.
No. It was Americans. Many of the American soldiers in Bosnia were Muslim. We don't have an established religion in this country. Yes, I'm sure I read that somewhere...
Do you realize that the reason we live in this country is because the colonists wiped out Native Americans, claiming that they were barbarians who hadn't accepted Christ? And Christopher Columbus did the exact same thing when he came over from Europe. The colonization of both North and South America was based on Christians killing in the name of divine right.
9/11 was not done for religious reasons. It was done for political reasons. They hate America because America occupies the Arabian peninsula, interferes with their politics, inserts puppet dictators and steals their oil. Moderate Muslims condemn acts of terror, but when you have a whole region destroyed by war and poverty, extremism is going to manifest itself there and it cannot be completely stopped.
It's amazing to me how ignorant Americans still are. Do you think the Muslim world likes Barack Obama? Let me tell you, they don't. They like him better than Bush, but they don't agree with his policies at all. Not that facts are going to persuade you, but I thought at least one or two people here could get something out of the truth.
Yes. I would guess that most our our citizens who have died violently in this country have been killed by christians.
Really? 1.4 billion people still practice slavery? Who knew.
Might I suggest it's in your best interest to be more specific.
I wish you didn't have that user name. I actually love jambalaya, it's my specialty.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?