Nazi camps in Poland are not Polish

[Heinrich]

If the new right-wing Polish nationalist Justice Minister, Zbigniew Ziobro, get his way, it will be a crime to refer to Third Reich death camps which were primarily in Poland as "Polish death camps". "This will be a project that meets the expectations of Poles, who are blasphemed in the world, in Europe, even in Germany, that they are the Holocaust perpetrators, that in Poland there were Polish concentration camps, Polish gas chambers," Ziobro was quoted by Reuters as telling radio station RMF.
Poland wants punishments for use of 'Polish death camp' phrase | World | Reuters
Ziobro might do well to refrain from protesting too much as Poland has a very long tradition of anti-Semitism and crimes against Jews during WWII have been hushed-up by historians. If the attention of the general public is brought to the topic of Polish anti-Semitism, things could get ugly.

Polish Justice Minister Zbigniew Ziobro

 

[zyzygy]

They were German death camps.

 

[Sanddune]

This is all a phony dabate. Nobody doubts that the death camps that were in Poland were built by the German nazi regime. Any talk of "Polish death camps" in any international or German media is caused by carelessness and not in an attempt to rewrite history and blame the holocaust on Poland. Of course it should be avoided, and those guilty of such a mistake should apologize. However, making a criminal offence out of this is nothing but ridiculous nationalistic populism. This solves no real-world problems, it may give some Poles a cozy feeling of "us" defending ourselves against "them" out there. This is why the government stokes the baseless phobia that the world is trying to blame the holocaust on Poland. I wonder to what point the piss party will undermine democracy, freedom of the press and free speech.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

They were German death camps.

^Yes.

Obama referred to them as Polish death camps as well. Why do you insist on revisionism, Heinrich? I find it abhorrent that you would spit in the face of the million+ innocent men, women and children ruthlessly exterminated under a hail of machinegun and tank fire by the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Waffen-SS in the German invasion and occupation of Poland in 1939. How can you place such a disgusting topic on a forum with a straight face? They were German...

GERMAN

 

[Sanddune]

I find it abhorrent that you would spit in the face of the million+ innocent men, women and children ruthlessly exterminated under a hail of machinegun and tank fire by the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Waffen-SS in the German invasion and occupation of Poland in 1939.

Yes, absolutely right, the Polish who suffered heavily under WW2 must certainly not be unfairly blamed. And neither should the Germans, who are more than 80 million people living in the 21st century, who do not believe in the Nazi ****, who did not exterminate anyone, and who are not in any direct or indirect sense morally inferior to anyone else.

Therefore, I insist that the camps are called

NAZI

camps, since they were built by the nazi regime, to put into practice the nazi ideology. Yes, it was a German regime, and yes, it was Germans who built and operated the camps, but it must be emphasized that these things were specific to a certain time, and to dictatorial regime, and not representative of Germany or the Germans in general. And certainly, the 80 million Germans of today have the right not to be smeared for what the worst of their ancestors did.

But yes, if anyone thinks the Nazis were a Polish regime, they should be corrected, and on this point, linguistic sloppiness and talk of Polish death camps is to be avoided.

 

[joG]

Yes, absolutely right, the Polish who suffered heavily under WW2 must certainly not be unfairly blamed. And neither should the Germans, who are more than 80 million people living in the 21st century, who do not believe in the Nazi ****, who did not exterminate anyone, and who are not in any direct or indirect sense morally inferior to anyone else.

Therefore, I insist that the camps are called

NAZI

camps, since they were built by the nazi regime, to put into practice the nazi ideology. Yes, it was a German regime, and yes, it was Germans who built and operated the camps, but it must be emphasized that these things were specific to a certain time, and to dictatorial regime, and not representative of Germany or the Germans in general. And certainly, the 80 million Germans of today have the right not to be smeared for what the worst of their ancestors did.

But yes, if anyone thinks the Nazis were a Polish regime, they should be corrected, and on this point, linguistic sloppiness and talk of Polish death camps is to be avoided.

The German problem is that the whole population participated more or less in the activities of the National Socialists and great numbers loved it. The participation was fine; it was legal by the law of the land and the desires of the majority, as was most of, what the Nazis did. After the war the story was that it was the criminal Nazis that had been evil. The slaves were not compensated till the most had died of old age and in German museums there are still paintings that were robbed from Jews that were then killed in camps. But the population that paid for all this was not at fault in the spin the German culture developed and maintains to this day.

 

[Peter King]

They may have been Nazi Death camps but they where not German death camps because they where not located in Germany. Just like there where Polish concentration camps, there were also Dutch concentration camps.

This is just silly buggery by this Polish Justice minister.

 

[Sanddune]

The German problem is that the whole population participated more or less in the activities of the National Socialists and great numbers loved it. The participation was fine; it was legal by the law of the land and the desires of the majority, as was most of, what the Nazis did. After the war the story was that it was the criminal Nazis that had been evil. The slaves were not compensated till the most had died of old age and in German museums there are still paintings that were robbed from Jews that were then killed in camps. But the population that paid for all this was not at fault in the spin the German culture developed and maintains to this day.

And any German who does not sign this off is a closet nazi or at least highly suspicious, right? Give me a break. Look, the prettifying of the nazi past in Germany generally stopped in the 1960s. I know about the large numbers of Germans who went along with the nazis, for various reasons. I have many reasons to despise a large part of the German population from back then, and I do. But the notion that building death camps somehow represents what the German population of the time wanted is ludicrous. The nazis kept the building of death camps secret, for good reason.

In any case, my main point was that you cannot say the word "Germans", in the sense of "the German people", without talking about the 80 million living today. And they, we, have the right not to be smeared for the crimes which we abhor as much as the descendants of those who were victimized by the nazis.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

If the new right-wing Polish nationalist Justice Minister, Zbigniew Ziobro, get his way, it will be a crime to refer to Third Reich death camps which were primarily in Poland as "Polish death camps". "This will be a project that meets the expectations of Poles, who are blasphemed in the world, in Europe, even in Germany, that they are the Holocaust perpetrators, that in Poland there were Polish concentration camps, Polish gas chambers," Ziobro was quoted by Reuters as telling radio station RMF.
Poland wants punishments for use of 'Polish death camp' phrase | World | Reuters
Ziobro might do well to refrain from protesting too much as Poland has a very long tradition of anti-Semitism and crimes against Jews during WWII have been hushed-up by historians. If the attention of the general public is brought to the topic of Polish anti-Semitism, things could get ugly.

Polish Justice Minister Zbigniew Ziobro

Oh jesus . . . because the term has so severely limited Poland's advancements in the world . . . oh wait.

You know - sucks to be invaded by Germany and your land used to kill millions of people. You have to accept that ****ty history happened on your soil and move on.

Nobody thought of anything of the phrase beyond 'a geological peg' - so I'm not even sure why they're all a tizzy over it. It's like: "American Slavery" when the whole world practically engaged in it, but that's not even the point.

 

[Sanddune]

Oh jesus . . . because the term has so severely limited Poland's advancements in the world . . . oh wait.

You know - sucks to be invaded by Germany and your land used to kill millions of people. You have to accept that ****ty history happened on your soil and move on.

Nobody thought of anything of the phrase beyond 'a geological peg' - so I'm not even sure why they're all a tizzy over it. It's like: "American Slavery" when the whole world practically engaged in it, but that's not even the point.

Now THAT I find unacceptable. The fate of the Polish people in WW2 must be treated with respect. There really is no telling the Polish people:

You know - sucks to be invaded by Germany and your land used to kill millions of people. You have to accept that ****ty history happened on your soil and move on.

You should seriously apologize for that.

Now, however ridiculous the Polish government initiative is, I believe the general Polish sensitivity about the term "Polish death camps" must be respected, and it is understandable.

 

[Hatuey]

They may have been Nazi Death camps but they where not German death camps because they where not located in Germany. Just like there where Polish concentration camps, there were also Dutch concentration camps.

This is just silly buggery by this Polish Justice minister.

... Well, by the same token wouldn't our bases in Afghanistan be Afghani bases? You'll find very quickly that the nationality in front of the word 'camp' denotes who ran it. I use to work with an American company operating in Mexico (As well as Canada, France, etc). We were an American company and referred to ourselves as such. We weren't a "Mexican Company". Our colleagues in France/Canada did not refer to the company as a Canadian or French company.

That said, I don't know exactly who ran this base. However, the camp should be referred to by the nationality of the authorities in place. Seems like a pretty standard thing to do with pretty much every entity I've ever heard of.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Now THAT I find unacceptable. The fate of the Polish people in WW2 must be treated with respect. There really is no telling the Polish people:



You should seriously apologize for that.

Now, however ridiculous the Polish government initiative is, I believe the general Polish sensitivity about the term "Polish death camps" must be respected, and it is understandable.

Why? Because they want to pick a bone with people in other countries over a geographically descriptive term?

No. I'm sorry. I'll repeat it, even, because it's just so vitally important for people to understand this about HISTORY:

At some point ALL PEOPLE in EVERY COUNTRY must accept the crap that happened IN THEIR PAST - IN THEIR PHYSICAL COUNTRY'S HISTORY TIMELINE and MOVE ON.

There will always be some erroneous reference, some ill mannered term, some poorly thought out myth that people still believe in. That is life . . . and MOVE ON.

The Native Americans will always be called Indians.
The term Gypsy will always be used in reference to someone who lives off the grid in a communal setting.
And people will most likely always use the term 'Polish Death Camps'. [In FACT - when I was younger I imagined that meant the Polish were the ones detained and killed IN these death camps - as is likely the association for many]

Now if they were leading a campaign to EDUCATE - I'd be all for that. If they were hosting shows and blogs to dispel the ignorance - I'd fully be on board. I love setting history straight. But being irate and threatening suits and vying for PUNISHMENTS is ridiculous.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

They may have been Nazi Death camps but they where not German death camps because they where not located in Germany. Just like there where Polish concentration camps, there were also Dutch concentration camps.

This is just silly buggery by this Polish Justice minister.

Yep, and I guess the US Military's 200+ overseas occupations aren't American by that merit...

:roll: -FACEPALM-

 

[Grand Mal]

They may have been Nazi Death camps but they where not German death camps because they where not located in Germany. Just like there where Polish concentration camps, there were also Dutch concentration camps.

This is just silly buggery by this Polish Justice minister.

But there were no Dutch death camps.
It's a very loaded, emotional issue. If you were Polish you might very well resent Auschwitz being called a Polish institution. I know if I were Polish I would object, strenuously.

 

[Grand Mal]

Why? Because they want to pick a bone with people in other countries over a geographically descriptive term?

No. I'm sorry. I'll repeat it, even, because it's just so vitally important for people to understand this about HISTORY:

At some point ALL PEOPLE in EVERY COUNTRY must accept the crap that happened IN THEIR PAST - IN THEIR PHYSICAL COUNTRY'S HISTORY TIMELINE and MOVE ON.

There will always be some erroneous reference, some ill mannered term, some poorly thought out myth that people still believe in. That is life . . . and MOVE ON.

The Native Americans will always be called Indians.

Will they? They haven't been in Canada for years 'n years. Are they still called Indians in school textbooks?

The term Gypsy will always be used in reference to someone who lives off the grid in a communal setting.

Never heard that one before. Gypsy to me implies someone who moves around according to the season or the harvests or their whims- no fixed address or permanent job.

And people will most likely always use the term 'Polish Death Camps'. [In FACT - when I was younger I imagined that meant the Polish were the ones detained and killed IN these death camps - as is likely the association for many]

Now if they were leading a campaign to EDUCATE - I'd be all for that. If they were hosting shows and blogs to dispel the ignorance - I'd fully be on board. I love setting history straight. But being irate and threatening suits and vying for PUNISHMENTS is ridiculous.

People will, most likely, continue to use the term, 'Polish death camps' elsewhere but were I Polish I'd object in no uncertain terms, and I'd expect that, at least in Poland, I wouldn't hear them described as Polish institutions.

 

[Sweden]

And any German who does not sign this off is a closet nazi or at least highly suspicious, right? Give me a break. Look, the prettifying of the nazi past in Germany generally stopped in the 1960s. I know about the large numbers of Germans who went along with the nazis, for various reasons. I have many reasons to despise a large part of the German population from back then, and I do. But the notion that building death camps somehow represents what the German population of the time wanted is ludicrous. The nazis kept the building of death camps secret, for good reason.

In any case, my main point was that you cannot say the word "Germans", in the sense of "the German people", without talking about the 80 million living today. And they, we, have the right not to be smeared for the crimes which we abhor as much as the descendants of those who were victimized by the nazis.

I think today's democratic Germany does a pretty good job in addressing the Nazi past - unlike Japan which persists in pretending it was some sort of victim. And I fully agree that guilt does not move down the generations.

But. It was common knowledge in Nazi Germany that Jews were being murdered by shooting in vast numbers as the army advanced into Poland, the Baltic States and then Russia. About one third of holocaust victims died in these shootings pits before death camps were established. Soldiers spread the word in letters and when they came home on leave or wounded. The Nazis did indeed attempt later to keep the death camps secret but with scant success; just too may people knew about them. The public knew they existed even if they were ignorant of locations and other details.

 

[SocialD]

Will they? They haven't been in Canada for years 'n years. Are they still called Indians in school textbooks?



Never heard that one before. Gypsy to me implies someone who moves around according to the season or the harvests or their whims- no fixed address or permanent job.



People will, most likely, continue to use the term, 'Polish death camps' elsewhere but were I Polish I'd object in no uncertain terms, and I'd expect that, at least in Poland, I wouldn't hear them described as Polish institutions.

Honestly I have never heard anyone use the term polish death camps. Although I am more well read now even as a youth when studying history I knew there were concentration camps in Poland but I knew they were just IN Poland but certain not run by Polish people.
As far as the indian thing I still hear the term American Indian and Native American used with about the same frequency.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Honestly I have never heard anyone use the term polish death camps.

Because they don't exist.
Only a Nazi-supporter would use the highly-offensive term 'Polish death camp', anyway. Because it was totally Poland's fault for having a fraction of the population of their entire country brutally and ruthlessly massacred by the German Wehrmacht (that is sarcasm, by the way). There are more Aryan Supremacists and Hitler apologists on this forum than I thought - I've already met three (not naming names) and I've only been here just over a year without even 1,000 posts. I don't understand some peoples' psychological malfunctions - then again I've always wondered why Racism in general still exists today, ever since I was a small boy. All we can do is fight against it wherever it may rear its ugly head. They may refuse to learn from their mistakes and warped view-points, but the least we can do is show them that their disgusting political views will not go unchallenged.

 

[Peter King]

... Well, by the same token wouldn't our bases in Afghanistan be Afghani bases? You'll find very quickly that the nationality in front of the word 'camp' denotes who ran it. I use to work with an American company operating in Mexico (As well as Canada, France, etc). We were an American company and referred to ourselves as such. We weren't a "Mexican Company". Our colleagues in France/Canada did not refer to the company as a Canadian or French company.

That said, I don't know exactly who ran this base. However, the camp should be referred to by the nationality of the authorities in place. Seems like a pretty standard thing to do with pretty much every entity I've ever heard of.

They are American bases in Afghanistan. They are US Afghani bases.

But all of that has nothing to do with Polish extermination camps, Dutch extermination camps, etc. etc. etc. Everybody knows that the location has nothing to do with the country where it was because they were all run by Germans during a time when those countries where occupied. I just think it is silly buggery to act like they where not Polish extermination camps. Polish just has to do with the location, not with who ran it because that clearly was done by the Germans.

 

[Peter King]

Yep, and I guess the US Military's 200+ overseas occupations aren't American by that merit...

:roll: -FACEPALM-

US military installations have nothing in common or to do with Nazi extermination camps or their locations. This justice minister can play all the silly word games he wants, Polish extermination camps are just that. They were located in Poland. It is not a negative comment on Poland but a statement purely about the location of where the camps where.

 

[Peter King]

But there were no Dutch death camps.
It's a very loaded, emotional issue. If you were Polish you might very well resent Auschwitz being called a Polish institution. I know if I were Polish I would object, strenuously.

I did not say there where Dutch extermination camps, I said there were Dutch concentration camps and that is totally accurate.

Nobody calls Auschwitz a Polish institution, but you can hardly deny it is in Poland.

 

[Grand Mal]

I did not say there where Dutch extermination camps, I said there were Dutch concentration camps and that is totally accurate.

Nobody calls Auschwitz a Polish institution, but you can hardly deny it is in Poland.

My point is, suppose you were Polish. Would you object if Auschwitz was called a Polish camp?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

They are American bases in Afghanistan. They are US Afghani bases.

Wrong.

List of United States military bases[/quote]

This is a list of installations and bases owned or used by the United States armed forces currently located in the United States and around the world.

Examples:

The Dimona Radar Facility is an American-operated radar base in the Negev, staffed by 120 US military personnel

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firebase_Fiddler%27s_Green]Firebase Fiddler's Green

Controlled by United States Marine Corp
Fiddler's Green is an expeditionary fire base in Afghanistan built by the United States Marine Corps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PB_Jaker
Patrol Base Jaker in Afghanistan is a military expeditionary base used by the United States Marine Corps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (also called GTMO and pronounced gitmo by the U.S. military because the airfield designation code is GTMO[1]) is located on 45 square miles (120 km2) of land and water at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, which the United States leased for use as a coaling and naval station in 1903 (for $2,000 until 1934, for $4,085 since 1938 until now). The base is on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba. It is the oldest overseas U.S. Naval Base.[2]

GITMO is not a Cuban-American military base. On what planet do you live?

What you are describing is a Jointly-operated base between two national militaries. There are only two of these:

Pine Gap Joint Defence Space Research Facility, Alice Springs, Northern Territory, Australia—used by United States armed forces, and CIA, in partnership with the Australian Defence Force and the Australian intelligence services.
War Reserve Stocks are located in many nations.

But all of that has nothing to do with Polish extermination camps, Dutch extermination camps, etc. etc. etc.

They were camps owned and operated by Nazi Germany...
owned and operated by Nazi Germany...
by Nazi Germany
Nazi Germany
Nazi Germany

Nazi Germany

Nazi Germany

Nazi Germany

Everybody knows that the location has nothing to do with the country where it was because they were all run by Germans during a time when those countries where occupied. I just think it is silly buggery to act like they where not Polish extermination camps. Polish just has to do with the location, not with who ran it because that clearly was done by the Germans.

-see above rebuttals-

:doh

 

[lb_on_teh_cb]

Oh jesus . . . because the term has so severely limited Poland's advancements in the world . . . oh wait.

You know - sucks to be invaded by Germany and your land used to kill millions of people. You have to accept that ****ty history happened on your soil and move on.

Nobody thought of anything of the phrase beyond 'a geological peg' - so I'm not even sure why they're all a tizzy over it. It's like: "American Slavery" when the whole world practically engaged in it, but that's not even the point.

funny thing, i never hear about South American slavery

 

[calamity]

They were German camps located in Poland.

When the Nazi's occupied Poland, they unleashed the racial hatreds in that country. As a result many Polish people did some horrific things.

That most of the worst camps were in Poland was not exactly an accident. But, the reasons for that are many. That there were lots of Jews living in Poland is probably the number one reason though.