The sleeping arrangements on a sub are one thing, but I don't buy into the argument that women are not physically able to handle it. Women are taking on roles throughout the military and seem to be handling it just fine.
Some current military women; and some physically fit civilian ones too:
So let me get this straight.
The standards have been lowered. You think this is wrong (as do I). So your solution is to exclude women altogether, rather than simply having a single standard. You want to stop complaints about discrimination...by imposing discrimination.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.
The medical evidence I have put forth says no.
PS My sister was in the Air Force, she weighs all of 125 lbs. And no way in hell she could do it.
PS That last one on the beach is hooooot! I would be glad to carry her gear for her.
Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.
The medical evidence I have put forth says no.
Who needs "medical evidence?"
Put them in the gear and let them march. The ones who make it are in, the ones who don't are out. Just like the men.
Pretty simple concept.
You are ignoring the reality of the situation. I am a realist.
In any attempt at all in our nations history, period. Anytime a women has cried discrimination be it military or civilian, the overall standards have been reduced or just the standards for females.
Those who do not remember the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.
Now if you would come up with an argument based on reality rather than insults or fantasy, we can get someplace.
Continue to ignore the reality's of the differences physically between men and women.
Who needs medical evidence. :roll:
The standards would be reduced. What part of this are you not getting?
It's not a bad comparison.
Some guys, including some of the tough guys on this thread, just can't handle the idea of women being strong. They really need to get their asses kicked by a woman, and they will do absolutely anything to avoid that. Including making some really twisted arguments.
Now lets take those same females, put them in full gear with a 100 pound ruck and a SAW with it's amunition on a 20 mile march.
The medical evidence I have put forth says no.
PS My sister was in the Air Force, she weighs all of 125 lbs. And no way in hell she could do it.
PSS That last one on the beach is hooooot! I would be glad to carry her gear for her.
You're not even close to being a realist.
Yes, so let's not reduce the standards next time. We can do whatever we want, you know.
I repeat - your solution to complaints about discrimination is...discrimination. That makes no sense. You want to make sense, right?
I wasn't so much comparing situations as comparing personal experiences. apdst was saying that women were crybabies because he'd been around a few that were.
No, the standards would not be reduced.
One standard. Let the women try. If any of them can do it, let those women in.
What's so hard about that?
Yea after 12 years in the Army. What the hell do I know?
After posting ACTUAL EVIDENCE to the contrary. What the hell do I know?
After years on the police department watching the female qualifications dropped to allow more of them because of pressure from the mayors office. What the hell do I know?
What part of "this is not going to happen" are you not AGAIN understanding?
No it's not discrimination. I am not advocating keeping females out of anything. Have you actually read anything I posted? I am advocating they be held to the same requirements as men, but I am also admitting THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Your fantasy scenario will never happen.
So, how many combat patrols, humping rucks, weapons, ammo and water does that flight crew go on? Aren't they supposed to get a certain amount of sleep in a 24 hour period? Is it only 4 hours, like in an infantry unit?
Yet there are plenty of females pulling out there doing just fine, for example Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester of the 617th Military Police Company, a National Guard unit out of Richmond, Ky:
"Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester fought her way through an enemy ambush south of Baghdad, killing three insurgents with her M-4 rifle to save fellow soldiers' lives -- and yesterday became the first woman since World War II to win the Silver Star medal for valor in combat."
Soldier Earns Silver Star for Her Role in Defeating Ambush - washingtonpost.com
Please point out one case where this has happened, just one? I have pointed out a few where it has not. So this should be easy, right? :2wave:
Yes and she got to that point by the reduced standards for females. So what?
Apparently the standards for men weren't much of a measure of what it takes to be a soldier, that's what. Maybe they should be reduced for everyone.
It doesn't matter whether it has happened yet. If there is a woman out there who can do it, she should get the chance to prove she can.
Yes and she got to that point by the reduced standards for females. So what?
By whatever standards she got in on in 2001, she seems to be perfectly capable of doing what needs to be done:
"...After insurgents hit the convoy with a barrage of fire from machine guns, AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades, Hester "maneuvered her team through the kill zone into a flanking position where she assaulted a trench line with grenades and M203 rounds," according to the Army citation accompanying the Silver Star.
"She then cleared two trenches with her squad leader where she engaged and eliminated three AIF [anti-Iraqi forces] with her M4 rifle. Her actions saved the lives of numerous convoy members," the citation stated.
Hester, a varsity softball and basketball player in high school, joined the Army in 2001 and was assigned to the Kentucky National Guard's 617th Military Police Company, based in Richmond, Ky..."
Again so what? This was 1 woman, just 1. Females make up 11% of the military.
I also have a feeling this is trumped up crap like Jessica Lynch. The Army has a habit of doing that.
Not all men distinguish themselves either.
You sure are going to great lengths to deny the facts. Some women can serve and serve well - better than some men. Get over it.
Wow. I dare you to say that to her face. Tell her she doesn't deserve her medals.
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