Natural immunity

[RealityChecker]

I love how the Qanon crowd ignores the central point of "natural immunity".

You have to get sick with the exact same virus you're trying to protect yourself from.

That is not true. There are many strains of the SARS-CoV2 now and prior infection with any of them provides a better active immunity than do any of the vaccines. Perhaps one day we may see a strain that naturally acquired immunity does not work well for and perhaps we'll need a new vaccine for that but we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

This is serious fetal-alcohol syndrome/chewing on paint chips level stuff.

That is a seriously naïve opinion that suggest there is much you do not understand about SARS-CoV2. I suggest you learn more and opine less until you can post more insightful comments.

 

[Hamish Howl]

That is not true. There are many strains of the SARS-CoV2 now and prior infection with any of them provides a better active immunity than do any of the vaccines. Perhaps one day we may see a strain that naturally acquired immunity does not work well for and perhaps we'll need a new vaccine for that but we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

That is a seriously naïve opinion that suggest there is much you do not understand about SARS-CoV2. I suggest you learn more and opine less until you can post more insightful comments.

Dude, it's idiocy. It's a custom reality with drooling stupidity included for free.

Oh, and I'll say what I want. Who died and made you a mod?

 

[RealityChecker]

Dude, it's idiocy. It's a custom reality with drooling stupidity included for free.

Oh, and I'll say what I want. Who died and made you a mod?

So no cogent rebuttal then. Why am I not surprised?

 

[Hamish Howl]

So no cogent rebuttal then. Why am I not surprised?

Imagine how horny that makes me.

 

[P_T]

Saw this today and is as of Friday Nov. 19.2021. It seems logically coherent as Illinois with Chicago has a very large State Population of all different lifestyles !

https://chicago.suntimes.com/corona...ctions-vaccines-weekly-infections-fall-arwady Again immunity is not stopping it but maybe most who are vaccinated or have had another variant are not very sick from it.

 

[jaeger19]

That is not true. There are many strains of the SARS-CoV2 now and prior infection with any of them provides a better active immunity than do any of the vaccines. Perhaps one day we may see a strain that naturally acquired immunity does not work well for and perhaps we'll need a new vaccine for that but we'll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

That is a seriously naïve opinion that suggest there is much you do not understand about SARS-CoV2. I suggest you learn more and opine less until you can post more insightful comments.

Well except natural immunity wanes while a vaccinated person just gets a booster.

 

[RealityChecker]

Well except natural immunity wanes while a vaccinated person just gets a booster.

And yet we are seeing marked increases in the numbers of vaccinated people getting COVID and dying and I predict sometime in 2022 we will see more deaths with COVID in vaxxed Americans than in Americans with natural immunity, who were never vaxxed. And yet tens of millions the folks with naturally acquired immunity got it in 2020 while aside from a few thousand people in the Covid vaccine trials no one else got vaxxed in 2020. Right now the % of the population with vaxxed and unvaxxed natural immunity is about the same.

So what is the Federal healthcare bureaucracy's plan to deal with this growing PR disaster? Simply force or mandates all the naturally immune people in America to get vaxxed and then tell Americans that it was the vaccines and not natural immunity protecting them serious COVID. And because the naturally acquired immune folks are far less likely to get sick and die with COVID than the vaxxed people this is he perfect scam. How else do we explain the CDC and the Democrats faking data to make it appear vaxxed people have better immunity than those with natural immunity and creating mandates that ignore naturally acquired immunity? Seems I recall you pushing that crap CDC "evidence" hard and pretending it was superior to the Israeli study data that showed naturally acquired immunity was far superior. That was not ignorance on your part was it? I'm guessing more likely complicity with this deep state's con job on natural immunity.

 

[jaeger19]

And yet we are seeing marked increases in the numbers of vaccinated people getting COVID and dying and I predict sometime in 2022 we will see more deaths with COVID in vaxxed Americans than in Americans with natural immunity, who were never vaxxed. And yet tens of millions the folks with naturally acquired immunity got it in 2020 while aside from a few thousand people in the Covid vaccine trials no one else got vaxxed in 2020. Right now the % of the population with vaxxed and unvaxxed natural immunity is about the same.

So what is the Federal healthcare bureaucracy's plan to deal with this growing PR disaster? Simply force or mandates all the naturally immune people in America to get vaxxed and then tell Americans that it was the vaccines and not natural immunity protecting them serious COVID. And because the naturally acquired immune folks are far less likely to get sick and die with COVID than the vaxxed people this is he perfect scam. How else do we explain the CDC and the Democrats faking data to make it appear vaxxed people have better immunity than those with natural immunity and creating mandates that ignore naturally acquired immunity? Seems I recall you pushing that crap CDC "evidence" hard and pretending it was superior to the Israeli study data that showed naturally acquired immunity was far superior. That was not ignorance on your part was it? I'm guessing more likely complicity with this deep state's con job on natural immunity.

Of course we a

 

[Fledermaus]

And yet we are seeing marked increases in the numbers of vaccinated people getting COVID and dying and I predict sometime in 2022 we will see more deaths with COVID in vaxxed Americans than in Americans with natural immunity, who were never vaxxed. And yet tens of millions the folks with naturally acquired immunity got it in 2020 while aside from a few thousand people in the Covid vaccine trials no one else got vaxxed in 2020. Right now the % of the population with vaxxed and unvaxxed natural immunity is about the same.

So what is the Federal healthcare bureaucracy's plan to deal with this growing PR disaster? Simply force or mandates all the naturally immune people in America to get vaxxed and then tell Americans that it was the vaccines and not natural immunity protecting them serious COVID. And because the naturally acquired immune folks are far less likely to get sick and die with COVID than the vaxxed people this is he perfect scam. How else do we explain the CDC and the Democrats faking data to make it appear vaxxed people have better immunity than those with natural immunity and creating mandates that ignore naturally acquired immunity? Seems I recall you pushing that crap CDC "evidence" hard and pretending it was superior to the Israeli study data that showed naturally acquired immunity was far superior. That was not ignorance on your part was it? I'm guessing more likely complicity with this deep state's con job on natural immunity.

Nostradamus you ain't.

 

[RealityChecker]

Saw this today and is as of Friday Nov. 19.2021. It seems logically coherent as Illinois with Chicago has a very large State Population of all different lifestyles !

https://chicago.suntimes.com/corona...ctions-vaccines-weekly-infections-fall-arwady Again immunity is not stopping it but maybe most who are vaccinated or have had another variant are not very sick from it.

Yup, exactly as I predicted back in late summer this would happen and explained why in a few months FL will be doing far better than up north as the delta strain moved north as people spent more time indoors because of the cold.

Why the hatred and lies about FL governor DeSantis? Simple, the Democrats and government bureaucrats were claiming the huge delta wave in FL was (if you listened to to the fake news mantra) "proof" of DeSantis's opposition to stupid flimsy face masks mandates, stupid vaccine mandates and vaccine passports, and small business destroying lock downs here in FL. And of course, DeSantis was looking like he might be a good pick for Trump's VP or the Republican POTUS candidate if Trump's health fails and/or he decides not to run. So the Democrats and the deep state had to make it appear the spike in COVID in FL was not simply the near complete failure of the vaccine to do much to stop the spread of COVID, but rather due to DeSantis opposition to ill conceived government mandates.

Big Eye, Paradoxical, and other truth seekers here have been exposing the shortcomings of these COVID vaccines for a long time. Now don't get me wrong I am not claiming the vaccines do not protect the person vaccinated against serious COVID. They do but paradoxically this increase the number of largely asymptomatic people running around and spreading the delta variant. Hence the rapid spread of the delta variant starting in southern hot and humid places like FL, much of LA, AL, MI, GA, and TX.

 

[RealityChecker]

Nostradamus you ain't.

Really? Then how do you explain me predicting in late summer that FL in the midst of a bad 4th wave of COVID thanks to the failure of vaccines to stop contagion, would being doing great in a few months and places up north would be seeing there own 4th wave of COVID? Now FL has the lowest death rate per capita in the US! How did I know? More here:

Where COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations Are Rising

COVID-19 hospitalizations dropped significantly this past week in the United States while the number of new cases declined sharply again.

www.healthline.com

 

[jaeger19]

And yet we are seeing marked increases in the numbers of vaccinated people getting COVID and dying and I predict sometime in 2022 we will see more deaths with COVID in vaxxed Americans than in Americans with natural immunity, who were never vaxxed. And yet tens of millions the folks with naturally acquired immunity got it in 2020 while aside from a few thousand people in the Covid vaccine trials no one else got vaxxed in 2020. Right now the % of the population with vaxxed and unvaxxed natural immunity is about the same.

So what is the Federal healthcare bureaucracy's plan to deal with this growing PR disaster? Simply force or mandates all the naturally immune people in America to get vaxxed and then tell Americans that it was the vaccines and not natural immunity protecting them serious COVID. And because the naturally acquired immune folks are far less likely to get sick and die with COVID than the vaxxed people this is he perfect scam. How else do we explain the CDC and the Democrats faking data to make it appear vaxxed people have better immunity than those with natural immunity and creating mandates that ignore naturally acquired immunity? Seems I recall you pushing that crap CDC "evidence" hard and pretending it was superior to the Israeli study data that showed naturally acquired immunity was far superior. That was not ignorance on your part was it? I'm guessing more likely complicity with this deep state's con job on natural immunity.

Duh of course. The more people get vaccinated..the greater the number of breakthrough cases. When 100 percent of a population is vaccinated then the only cases will be in vaccinated.
The only ones that will think this is a PR disaster is the conspiracy rubes that can't do basic math.
The number of unvaccinated will continue to dwindle as those hesitant get covid and realize "crap I don't want to go through that again"
And as the " natural immune" get reinfected and go " crap I don't want to do that again"..
Both of which we are seeing now. .
Eventually covid will be inconsequential as enough people get vaccinated and keep up with any booster if needed.
The irony is then the antivaxx crowd will be screaming about how deadly covid is..and why aren't we freaking out about cobid anymore. ?

 

[jaeger19]

Really? Then how do you explain me predicting in late summer that FL in the midst of a bad 4th wave of COVID thanks to the failure of vaccines to stop contagion, would being doing great in a few months and places up north would be seeing there own 4th wave of COVID? Now FL has the lowest death rate per capita in the US! How did I know? More here:

Where COVID-19 Cases, Hospitalizations Are Rising

COVID-19 hospitalizations dropped significantly this past week in the United States while the number of new cases declined sharply again.

www.healthline.com

Umm because everyone knows that covid goes in waves..so when the peak is over cases decline..duh.
Covid increases based on the number of people vulnerable especially unvaxxed...weather patterns..behavior patterns etc.

 

[RealityChecker]

Umm because everyone knows that covid goes in waves..so when the peak is over cases decline..duh.
Covid increases based on the number of people vulnerable especially unvaxxed...weather patterns..behavior patterns etc.

But you were claiming FL was doing far worse than CA because FL because DeSantis did not support government mandates the way CA governor Newsome. But now we see FL deaths with COVID increasing in CA to higher levels than FL. Was that because DeSantis imposed mandates like you said he should? Or because Newsome has finally figured out his stupid mandates are hurting CA and not stopping COVID?

 

[RealityChecker]

Duh of course. The more people get vaccinated..the greater the number of breakthrough cases. When 100 percent of a population is vaccinated then the only cases will be in vaccinated.
The only ones that will think this is a PR disaster is the conspiracy rubes that can't do basic math.
The number of unvaccinated will continue to dwindle as those hesitant get covid and realize "crap I don't want to go through that again"
And as the " natural immune" get reinfected and go " crap I don't want to do that again"..
Both of which we are seeing now. .
Eventually covid will be inconsequential as enough people get vaccinated and keep up with any booster if needed.
The irony is then the antivaxx crowd will be screaming about how deadly covid is..and why aren't we freaking out about cobid anymore. ?

This ignores the fact that COVID vaccines do not stop COVID infections nearly as well as does naturally acquired active immunity. Deal with that reality.

 

[RAMOSS]

And yet we are seeing marked increases in the numbers of vaccinated people getting COVID and dying and I predict sometime in 2022 we will see more deaths with COVID in vaxxed Americans than in Americans with natural immunity, who were never vaxxed. And yet tens of millions the folks with naturally acquired immunity got it in 2020 while aside from a few thousand people in the Covid vaccine trials no one else got vaxxed in 2020. Right now the % of the population with vaxxed and unvaxxed natural immunity is about the same.

So what is the Federal healthcare bureaucracy's plan to deal with this growing PR disaster? Simply force or mandates all the naturally immune people in America to get vaxxed and then tell Americans that it was the vaccines and not natural immunity protecting them serious COVID. And because the naturally acquired immune folks are far less likely to get sick and die with COVID than the vaxxed people this is he perfect scam. How else do we explain the CDC and the Democrats faking data to make it appear vaxxed people have better immunity than those with natural immunity and creating mandates that ignore naturally acquired immunity? Seems I recall you pushing that crap CDC "evidence" hard and pretending it was superior to the Israeli study data that showed naturally acquired immunity was far superior. That was not ignorance on your part was it? I'm guessing more likely complicity with this deep state's con job on natural immunity.

Point 1) The people who are vaccinated that are dying of it tend to be in the category of 'elderly or immune compromised' Point 2) When you have a much larger subset of people who are vaccinated, you will have more breakthrough infections in comparision with a small amount. Point 3) The booster appears to restore the higher level of immunity in the high risk people Point 4) Unvaccinated peole still have over an 11 times chance of dying from ocivd than a vaccinated person with breakthrough infection.

 

[snakestretcher]

Well, then can you provide us with data showing us how many people have caught COVID from someone with naturally acquired active immunity and died? Can you then compare that number to the number of people who are fully vaccinated and spreading SARS-CoV2 around?

The reality is that current vaccines provide what appears to be significantly inferior protection against catching and spreading SARS-CoV2 than does natural immunity. So why do vaccine mandates (in the USA) ignore naturally acquired active immunity against SARS-CoV2?

How about you listen to what professionals are telling you, not what Carlson and the rest of the conservative morons are feeding you?

 

[snakestretcher]

This ignores the fact that COVID vaccines do not stop COVID infections nearly as well as does naturally acquired active immunity. Deal with that reality.

'Natural' immunity after infection lasts a little longer than that acquired through vaccination. Neither stops infection but significantly reduces the severity of infection or re-infection. Why is this such a problem for you to understand?

 

[RealityChecker]

'Natural' immunity after infection lasts a little longer than that acquired through vaccination. Neither stops infection but significantly reduces the severity of infection or re-infection. Why is this such a problem for you to understand?

Immunity that last longer and is much more effective at preventing bad outcomes and is significantly better at reducing infection or re-infection is obviously important to this discussion even if you cannot grasp that reality. It would appear it is you that is having trouble understanding what is and is not relevant about naturally acquired active immunity, especially compared to vaccine induced immunity. Do you deny that reality?

 

[snakestretcher]

Immunity that last longer and is much more effective at preventing bad outcomes and is significantly better at reducing infection or re-infection is obviously important to this discussion even if you cannot grasp that reality. It would appear it is you that is having trouble understanding what is and is not relevant about naturally acquired active immunity, especially compared to vaccine induced immunity. Do you deny that reality?

Here's the reality...

How long does covid-19 immunity last?

Many questions remain about both natural and vaccine induced immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Chris Baraniuk reviews what we know so far This is difficult to say definitively. When the body’s immune system responds to an infection, it isn’t always clear how long any immunity that develops will persist...

www.bmj.com

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/373/bmj.n1605.full.pdf

 

[RealityChecker]

Here's the reality...

How long does covid-19 immunity last?

Many questions remain about both natural and vaccine induced immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Chris Baraniuk reviews what we know so far This is difficult to say definitively. When the body’s immune system responds to an infection, it isn’t always clear how long any immunity that develops will persist...

www.bmj.com

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/373/bmj.n1605.full.pdf

Pretty good article. Did you think it specifically refuted my take? The closest thing I could find to a different take was this:

"An article published in Science in March 2021 reviewed the evidence so far and concluded that the currently available vaccines give sufficient protection against extant and foreseeable variants.20 “Ultimately, the best defense against emergence of further variants of concern is a rapid, global, vaccination campaign—in concert with other public health measures to block transmission,” the authors concluded. “A virus that cannot transmit and infect others has no chance to mutate.”"

Of course, back in March that author could not have known that vaccines would be extremely leaky when it comes to the delta variant. Today it appears the delta variant easily spreads through communities even with very high vaccine induced immunity. If you look at Sweden, which likely has the highest prevalence of naturally acquired active immunity we see it doing far better than other European countries in terms of new cases of COVID. Clearly we need more evidence but based on what I have seen so far it appears to me that naturally acquired immunity is significantly better at not only protecting those who recover from serious disease but also at tapping down on the ability of the delta strain to spread quickly in a community. If it is true that the more comprehensive or wholistic immunity one gets from an infection versus a vaccine by more rapidly knocking down the virus's ability to replicate and then infect others then the best approach may be a combination of vaccine induced immunity in high risk older people and far more naturally acquired immunity in children and healthy younger adults.

Why not just not vaccinate anyone and let nature take its course? Well a lot of older and sicker people would end up seriously ill clogging up hospitals and killing a lot of them who would have done far better if vaccinated. So vaccines ought to be encouraged for the high risk folks but not for the low risk kids and healthy younger adults for whom SARS-CoV2 poses about the same risk as the flu at this point and perhaps even less if the new oral meds and especially Pfizer's work as well as claimed. What if we get more definitive data showing that natural immunity is not better at stopping COVID from spreading than vaccine-induced immunity? Well in that case I would change my mind and encourage even younger healthy people to get vaccinated. But I would still not mandate it and ruin the lives of people who do not comply with such an authoritarian government mandate.

 

[jaeger19]

This ignores the fact that COVID vaccines do not stop COVID infections nearly as well as does naturally acquired active immunity. Deal with that reality.

The reality is that to get natural immunity..you have to risk hospitalization and death.
So it's not surprising that those that survive covid..
End up as a group having more immunity than a vaccinated group.that contains immunosuppressed people.
The effectiveness of the vaccine depends on the healthiness of the immune system.
Those with weaker immune systems who caught covid died..leaving only the ones with stringer immune systems alive.
Sheesh.

 

[RealityChecker]

The reality is that to get natural immunity..you have to risk hospitalization and death.

Right, which is why I have always supported vaccines for older people because for them risking infection is far more likely to harm them than the vaccine shots.

So it's not surprising that those that survive covid..
End up as a group having more immunity than a vaccinated group.that contains immunosuppressed people.
The effectiveness of the vaccine depends on the healthiness of the immune system.
Those with weaker immune systems who caught covid died..leaving only the ones with stringer immune systems alive.
Sheesh.

Well we do not force older people to get flu vaccines and we certainly do not force kids to get flu vaccines either even though we know the flu is far more dangerous to school age kids than SARS-CoV2. And the data we have on kids excluded kids who had COVID and recovered. As you know those kids have almost no risk of catching SARS-CoV2 and ending up seriously ill and not one who was healthy when they caught SARS-CoV2 and recovered has ended up dying from being re-infected.

So right know we have no reliable data on the possible adverse effects of COVID vaccines in kids who already had COVID. But we know their immune response is certainly going to be significantly greater than in kids who have not already had COVID. So there is a good chance they may end up with more inflammation including myocarditis than may well leave scarring in their hearts setting them up for far earlier heart disease perhaps in their 30s or 40s as a result. So it makes no sense to force these tens of millions of kids who have been infected with SARS-CoV2 and recovered often with no knowledge they were even infected, to be vaccinated against an illness they may well have already had and even if they did not may still pose for less risk to their health over the long term.

And you favor imposing such risk of kids in hopes of maybe reducing their risk of catching COVID and spreading it to older adults? That is ill-conceived public policy IMO.
Sheesh!!!

 

[jaeger19]

Right, which is why I have always supported vaccines for older people because for them risking infection is far more likely to harm them than the vaccine shots.

Well we do not force older people to get flu vaccines and we certainly do not force kids to get flu vaccines either even though we know the flu is far more dangerous to school age kids than SARS-CoV2. And the data we have on kids excluded kids who had COVID and recovered. As you know those kids have almost no risk of catching SARS-CoV2 and ending up seriously ill and not one who was healthy when they caught SARS-CoV2 and recovered has ended up dying from being re-infected.

So right know we have no reliable data on the possible adverse effects of COVID vaccines in kids who already had COVID. But we know their immune response is certainly going to be significantly greater than in kids who have not already had COVID. So there is a good chance they may end up with more inflammation including myocarditis than may well leave scarring in their hearts setting them up for far earlier heart disease perhaps in their 30s or 40s as a result. So it makes no sense to force these tens of millions of kids who have been infected with SARS-CoV2 and recovered often with no knowledge they were even infected, to be vaccinated against an illness they may well have already had and even if they did not may still pose for less risk to their health over the long term.

And you favor imposing such risk of kids in hopes of maybe reducing their risk of catching COVID and spreading it to older adults? That is ill-conceived public policy IMO.
Sheesh!!!

1. Yes..but you don't acknowledge the reality that older people being vaccinated can account for why vaccinated people " appear" to have lower immunity than those with prior infection"
You conveniently ignore that fact. And go espousing your "sweet sweet natural immunity"
2. We have far more evidence that covid is way worse to the community than the flu. Covid has overwhelmed hospitals and caused crisis levels of care and a death toll that outstrips fuel seasons almost 10 fold.not to mention closing schools and supply chain disruptions.
We have evidence that unvaccinated children are good spreaders of covid. And outbreaks have occurred in school shutting schools down
Children do die and do get very sick from covid. It's way more rare than in adults but it does happen.
The evidence thus far is that asymptomatic people can develop long covid or develop lung damage..indicating the real possibility of long term damage in children with repeat infections.
The complications with the vaccine seen..are almost exactly the same as seen with actual infection..which could indicate that those who get the complication from the vaccine would have had worse effects from actually infection. Especially repeated infection.
Basically ..your position against mandating child vaccinations is not based on science but based on your ideology.
And that's fair..but let's not confuse your position as one based in science.

 

[P_T]

New COVID Variant B.1.1.529, Which May Evade Immunity, Found in These Countries​

BY ED BROWNE ON 11/25/21 AT 5:08 AM EST

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TECH & SCIENCECORONAVIRUSSCIENCEPUBLIC HEALTHVIRUSES

Scientists have voiced concern about a new COVID variant that has a "really awful" combination of mutations that could possibly cause the virus to evade immunity.
The variant, now called B.1.1.529, was reported on just days ago after a small cluster of cases were spotted by Tom Peacock, a virologist at Imperial College London in the U.K.
As of Wednesday this week, the variant had been detected in Botswana, South Africa, and Hong Kong, and there were only 10 cases reported, The Guardian newspaper reported.