NASA veteran’s propellantless propulsion drive defies laws of physics

[jmotivator]

NASA expert's propellantless propulsion drive defies Physics

NASA expert Dr. Charles Buhler believes his company has discovered a never-before-seen force. It can revolutionize space travel.

interestingengineering.com

I don't post this because I am sold that this will prove to be real. I tend to assume that any new discovery that breaks the laws of physics are a rounding error.

But anyway, I have found the articles regarding this "Propellantless Propulsion Drive" interesting in the potential it would create if it turned out to be true.

I was more onboard with this possibility of this story back when they were reporting very minute propulsion from their sample drive. Now that they are reporting propulsion that is capable of "counteracting gravity" I grow more skeptical... mainly because that claim comes with a laundry list of necessary qualifiers that I have yet to see presented.

If this ended up being true, and true while meeting all of those qualifiers, it would basically change everything. And by everything I mean everything.

So since we lack the data, and nobody seems to be all that excited, I'm going to file this with all the superconductor news lately... hoping it's true, but knowing it's probably not.

 

[Gordy327]

Up next, anti gravity generators and warp drive.

 

[ataraxia]

Up next, anti gravity generators and warp drive.

.... and perpetual motion machines! Yay!

 

[Peacenik]

Would be truly awesome. Exciting if true. Ready to see more when they take it to the next step. Hope it's real and can be demonstrated soon.

 

[Luce]

Well, the source is frankly crap.

Usually guys like this are trying to fleece people with a perpetual motion machine.

Which this one is, basically. There is no free lunch anywhere.

 

[Napoleon]

Well, the source is frankly crap.

Usually guys like this are trying to fleece people with a perpetual motion machine.

Which this one is, basically. There is no free lunch anywhere.

Not exactly. Propellantless Propulsion Drive proposes, among other things, using the gravitational force of planets, moons, and other bodies to accelerate spacecraft. The bigger problem here is there is no method of decelerating.

 

[mrjurrs]

NASA expert's propellantless propulsion drive defies Physics

NASA expert Dr. Charles Buhler believes his company has discovered a never-before-seen force. It can revolutionize space travel.

interestingengineering.com

I don't post this because I am sold that this will prove to be real. I tend to assume that any new discovery that breaks the laws of physics are a rounding error.

But anyway, I have found the articles regarding this "Propellantless Propulsion Drive" interesting in the potential it would create if it turned out to be true.

I was more onboard with this possibility of this story back when they were reporting very minute propulsion from their sample drive. Now that they are reporting propulsion that is capable of "counteracting gravity" I grow more skeptical... mainly because that claim comes with a laundry list of necessary qualifiers that I have yet to see presented.

If this ended up being true, and true while meeting all of those qualifiers, it would basically change everything. And by everything I mean everything.

So since we lack the data, and nobody seems to be all that excited, I'm going to file this with all the superconductor news lately... hoping it's true, but knowing it's probably not.

Science rocks!

 

[Exquisitor]

NASA expert's propellantless propulsion drive defies Physics

NASA expert Dr. Charles Buhler believes his company has discovered a never-before-seen force. It can revolutionize space travel.

interestingengineering.com

I don't post this because I am sold that this will prove to be real. I tend to assume that any new discovery that breaks the laws of physics are a rounding error.

But anyway, I have found the articles regarding this "Propellantless Propulsion Drive" interesting in the potential it would create if it turned out to be true.

I was more onboard with this possibility of this story back when they were reporting very minute propulsion from their sample drive. Now that they are reporting propulsion that is capable of "counteracting gravity" I grow more skeptical... mainly because that claim comes with a laundry list of necessary qualifiers that I have yet to see presented.

If this ended up being true, and true while meeting all of those qualifiers, it would basically change everything. And by everything I mean everything.

So since we lack the data, and nobody seems to be all that excited, I'm going to file this with all the superconductor news lately... hoping it's true, but knowing it's probably not.

I wouldn't give it as much as the Universe being 27 gyrs instead of 13.7.

In other news, it's called a latch, if you had a long tether to something falling into the Sun, it would pull you out of the gravity well, you could accelerate and decelerate this way, or do it to other stars.

 

[Loulit01]

Of course the proppellantless drive works... it's powered by cold fusion.

 

[jmotivator]

This isn't the only Propellantless Propulsion system in development. NASA has proposed a Photonic Laser propulsion system (PDF)

Granted, the physical pressure imparted by photon collision is well known and tested, and technically such a system isn't necessarily "Propellantless" in the same way as the OP system would be.

The real issue here though is the amount of thrust being reported, which makes me very skeptical. I remember reading a year or two ago about their preliminary test beng accepted by NASA to put a test engine in orbit.

 

[jmotivator]

Of course the proppellantless drive works... it's powered by cold fusion.

And room temperature superconductors.

 

[Opossum]

NASA expert's propellantless propulsion drive defies Physics

NASA expert Dr. Charles Buhler believes his company has discovered a never-before-seen force. It can revolutionize space travel.

interestingengineering.com

I don't post this because I am sold that this will prove to be real. I tend to assume that any new discovery that breaks the laws of physics are a rounding error.

But anyway, I have found the articles regarding this "Propellantless Propulsion Drive" interesting in the potential it would create if it turned out to be true.

I was more onboard with this possibility of this story back when they were reporting very minute propulsion from their sample drive. Now that they are reporting propulsion that is capable of "counteracting gravity" I grow more skeptical... mainly because that claim comes with a laundry list of necessary qualifiers that I have yet to see presented.

If this ended up being true, and true while meeting all of those qualifiers, it would basically change everything. And by everything I mean everything.

So since we lack the data, and nobody seems to be all that excited, I'm going to file this with all the superconductor news lately... hoping it's true, but knowing it's probably not.

Interesting. First thing that comes to mind is how it would be powered efficiently. Mini nuke reactor is the only thing that I can think of that would be efficient/powerful enough to make it happen.

 

[bomberfox]

The NASA veteran states the propulsion drive is capable of generating enough thrust to counteract Earth’s gravity without expelling mass

So what will be supplying or converting the energy to create thrust?

 

[HIP56948]

I built something like that once.
You take an electric motor, hook a generator to it, then run the generator wire to the electric motor. Works great for 7 seconds

 

[Luce]

Not exactly. Propellantless Propulsion Drive proposes, among other things, using the gravitational force of planets, moons, and other bodies to accelerate spacecraft. The bigger problem here is there is no method of decelerating.

There is no such thing as decelerating. There is simply accelleration in a new direction.

But none of that is what is happening in this case.

 

[jmotivator]

The NASA veteran states the propulsion drive is capable of generating enough thrust to counteract Earth’s gravity without expelling mass

So what will be supplying or converting the energy to create thrust?

The claim is that the engine provides thrust from a contained asymmetric electrical charge that imparts a directional force. I think of it like how a water bug moves across the surface of a pond by creating an imbalance in surface tension. The reason this potential discovery is so controversial is because if it works it establishes a previously unknown force... like "SpaceTime Tension"?

Currently the claim is that the force they achieved is 100 millinewtons, which is very small and I don't know whether or not or how the force scales in energy input. But then I guess they might not know that yet since they don't even know why.

 

[jmotivator]

For those interested, here is an interview Buhler gave a few months ago on this subject:

 

[jmotivator]

For those interested but can't watch the video, according to Buhler the big breakthrough over the last 3 years or so was in establishing that the measurable force depended largely on the type of electrostatic imbalance they were using.

According to Buhler, a free-charge imbalance (an imbalance achieved in a wire, for instance) provides very little force, and this kind of imbalance is what was achieving the 100 millinewtons of force. They then tried by applying the electrostatic imbalance to an insulation medium, and the force appears to scale with how insulated the charge actually is. Their best test achieved over 1 g of acceleration thrust/thrust medium.

This still could all be complete BS, but he talks a good game and he appears to have all the right credentials.

 

[bomberfox]

The claim is that the engine provides thrust from a contained asymmetric electrical charge that imparts a directional force. I think of it like how a water bug moves across the surface of a pond by creating an imbalance in surface tension. The reason this potential discovery is so controversial is because if it works it establishes a previously unknown force... like "SpaceTime Tension"?

Currently the claim is that the force they achieved is 100 millinewtons, which is very small and I don't know whether or not or how the force scales in energy input. But then I guess they might not know that yet since they don't even know why.

Ok sounds like the energy will be from electricity. Sounds good for moving along a plane but i wonder how it will work for upwards thrust. Ill have to see it in action to understand it better. Still keeping an open mind until i see if there is an explanation of why it cant work.

 

[jmotivator]

Ok sounds like the energy will be from electricity. Sounds good for moving along a plane but i wonder how it will work for upwards thrust. Ill have to see it in action to understand it better. Still keeping an open mind until i see if there is an explanation of why it cant work.

He goes into it with the video, which has me somewhat less skeptical.

BUT, there is another claim in the video that had my jaw drop... and it can't possibly be real.. the following is the whole claim:

They discovered that the real force only really sows up in a bound-electron system, that is one where the static charge of trapped in an insulator like Styrofoam.

Because this unknown force exists due to the imbalance in electron pressure, and since that imbalance is held in an insulator, the force is persistent without continued input of power into the system.

So essentially, if this is true, this force would apply theoretically infinitely with no added power input.

But I guess you should expect to see all of the laws of thermodynamics fall if you break just one.

So yeah, too insane to not be bullshit... right?

 

[jmotivator]

Let's assume for the sake of mental argument that the finding is real, and this technology is real: Can you imagine a scenario that both describes the phenomenon, but also brings the discovery in line with the laws of physics? I think I can, at least come to an analogy that explains how that could happen.

Consider a helium balloon as viewed by a person who has no idea how buoyancy works. To that person it would appear that you created a perpetual motion machine from that balloon because it moves with no added force. In reality that balloon is simply rising to an equilibrium point where the outside and inside gas reach an equilibrium.

If this discovery holds true, it could very well be that the propulsion is simply the electrostatic imbalance pushing the device in the direction of equilibrium (equilibrium of what, I don't know)...

And here is the thing that pecks at the back of my brain: If this finding is true, have these scientists discovered the source of dark energy? If the fact that the universe is expanding faster than it should be for the same reason that this device has movement? Are galaxies just giant masses of electrostatic imbalance?

See? Who needs hallucinogens? I do this stuff sober!