Nappy Sales for the elderly boom while infant nappy sales plummet in Japan

[Infinite Chaos]

A Japanese nappy maker has announced that it will stop producing diapers for babies in the country and, instead, focus on the market for adults.
Oji Holdings is the latest firm to make such a shift in a rapidly ageing Japan, where birth rates are at a record low.
Sales of adult nappies outpaced those for infants in the country for more than a decade.

Japan nappy maker shifts from babies to adults

Since 2011, sales of adult nappies have outpaced those for infants in Japan as its population ages.

www.bbc.co.uk

Anther sign of an ageing population in Japan. Seems they are struggling to find policies that will help reverse the trend too - same for South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong.

 

[Jessie C]

A Japanese nappy maker has announced that it will stop producing diapers for babies in the country and, instead, focus on the market for adults.
Oji Holdings is the latest firm to make such a shift in a rapidly ageing Japan, where birth rates are at a record low.
Sales of adult nappies outpaced those for infants in the country for more than a decade.

Japan nappy maker shifts from babies to adults

Since 2011, sales of adult nappies have outpaced those for infants in Japan as its population ages.

www.bbc.co.uk

Anther sign of an ageing population in Japan. Seems they are struggling to find policies that will help reverse the trend too - same for South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong.

Same thing with China, although China's problem is of their own making. By restricting the number of children one could have years ago, they're now dealing with the same problem, way too many old folks and not enough young people. Another example of why it's a bad idea to mess with mother nature.

 

[dseag2]

The Japanese have such an issue with an aging population that they have been developing robots to take care of the elderly.

A growing body of evidence is finding that robots tend to end up creating more work for caregivers. In Japan, robots are often assumed to be a natural solution to the “problem” of elder care. The country has extensive expertise in industrial robotics and led the world for decades in humanoid-robot research.

Inside Japan’s long experiment in automating elder care

The country wanted robots to help care for the elderly. What happened?

www.technologyreview.com

 

[Real blank]

Incredibly concerning.i put it down to a two income necessity for “developed societies “

 

[Surrealistik]

A Japanese nappy maker has announced that it will stop producing diapers for babies in the country and, instead, focus on the market for adults.
Oji Holdings is the latest firm to make such a shift in a rapidly ageing Japan, where birth rates are at a record low.
Sales of adult nappies outpaced those for infants in the country for more than a decade.

Japan nappy maker shifts from babies to adults

Since 2011, sales of adult nappies have outpaced those for infants in Japan as its population ages.

www.bbc.co.uk

Anther sign of an ageing population in Japan. Seems they are struggling to find policies that will help reverse the trend too - same for South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong.

The only way to address the demographic issues these countries are experiencing before disaster strikes is opening them up to immigration... which is unlikely due to deep seated xenophobic elements that hold the reins of power.

Unfortunately for some of these countries, like China, which has been struggling with persistent emigration for decades in addition to a rapidly shrinking and aging populace, largely thanks to the moronic and shortsighted interference of the CCP, there is not a great deal of interest in immigrating for generally obvious reasons.

 

[ElChupacabra]

A Japanese nappy maker has announced that it will stop producing diapers for babies in the country and, instead, focus on the market for adults.
Oji Holdings is the latest firm to make such a shift in a rapidly ageing Japan, where birth rates are at a record low.
Sales of adult nappies outpaced those for infants in the country for more than a decade.

Japan nappy maker shifts from babies to adults

Since 2011, sales of adult nappies have outpaced those for infants in Japan as its population ages.

www.bbc.co.uk

Anther sign of an ageing population in Japan. Seems they are struggling to find policies that will help reverse the trend too - same for South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong.

I was reading about the 4B movement in South Korea by women who are choosing not to date or get married as a protest to gender roles in South Korea. That and the changes a modern society brings about in terms of decreased child births is going to prove problematic for some of the developing world.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

I was reading about the 4B movement in South Korea by women who are choosing not to date or get married as a protest to gender roles in South Korea. That and the changes a modern society brings about in terms of decreased child births is going to prove problematic for some of the developing world.

Does the world "need" continued human population growth?
I'd never heard of the 4B movement but it sounds interesting - they refuse heterosexual relations so that raises the question of how healthy young people deal with sexual impulses - a whole other thread but this article is illuminating, especially regarding a so-called highly developed 1st World nation: I quote a small section -

"In their view, Korean men are essentially beyond redemption, and Korean culture, on the whole, is hopelessly patriarchal — often downright misogynistic. A 2016 survey by the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family found the incidence of intimate-partner violence at 41.5 percent, significantly higher than the global average of 30 percent."

A World Without Men

The women of South Korea’s 4B movement aren’t fighting the patriarchy — they’re leaving it behind entirely.

www.thecut.com

We are, whatever we think of ourselves still an animal and in many species, there is an element of violence against the other partner during or preceding sex. We like to think of ourselves as sophisticated and better than the other animals but is that also part of the human makeup - that we are (as a group and not as an individual) predetermined to violence against the other sex as part of courtship?

As we develop as a species, are females developing out of this historic acceptance and slowly forcing societal change? If that's the case, it's one I support but I also strongly support that women should be free to choose whether they have children / families and or careers.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

The only way to address the demographic issues these countries are experiencing before disaster strikes is opening them up to immigration...

It's only really a disaster if we as a species wish to remain on course in terms of population growth. I'm completely open-minded about this. Historically, there have been large waves of migration out of Africa to populate the world and if (as I believe the various charts show) the only place that will experience large population growth is Africa - then yet another wave may happen.

immigration... which is unlikely due to deep seated xenophobic elements that hold the reins of power.

Unlikely now, but if a nation can't encourage greater childbirth among its own and numbers of young has fallen below various thresholds - only immigration or automation are the answer.

 

[Surrealistik]

It's only really a disaster if we as a species wish to remain on course in terms of population growth. I'm completely open-minded about this. Historically, there have been large waves of migration out of Africa to populate the world and if (as I believe the various charts show) the only place that will experience large population growth is Africa - then yet another wave may happen.

It will most certainly be a disaster as their economies simply aren't able to tolerate shrinking populations and present demographies.

Unlikely now, but if a nation can't encourage greater childbirth among its own and numbers of young has fallen below various thresholds - only immigration or automation are the answer.

Automation that is within the realm of reason and possibility is no panacea as we can see in South Korea where it has by far the greatest proliferation of robotics in the world yet still faces serious issues arising from an aging and depleting population, so the solution must lie in immigration.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

It will most certainly be a disaster as their economies simply aren't able to tolerate shrinking populations and present demographies.

As I see it, empires and civilisations come and go, a natural process.

Automation that is within the realm of reason and possibility is no panacea as we can see in South Korea where it has by far the greatest proliferation of robotics in the world yet still faces serious issues arising from an aging and depleting population, so the solution must lie in immigration.

I'm for immigration but I know that vast numbers of most nations disagree and think it means their culture or nation will be overwhelmed.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Does the world "need" continued human population growth?

That is a whole other topic. Some will argue that we do not, given the impact that has on resources and its toll on the planet as a result. The other side of this is while population growth is declining in wealthier nations, it is rising rapidly in others, and I suspect that will cause conflicts in the future given the migration patterns we see now due to economic, political, and climate instability.

I'd never heard of the 4B movement but it sounds interesting - they refuse heterosexual relations so that raises the question of how healthy young people deal with sexual impulses - a whole other thread but this article is illuminating, especially regarding a so-called highly developed 1st World nation: I quote a small section -

"In their view, Korean men are essentially beyond redemption, and Korean culture, on the whole, is hopelessly patriarchal — often downright misogynistic. A 2016 survey by the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family found the incidence of intimate-partner violence at 41.5 percent, significantly higher than the global average of 30 percent."

A World Without Men

The women of South Korea’s 4B movement aren’t fighting the patriarchy — they’re leaving it behind entirely.

www.thecut.com

Our family business is located in a predominantly Korean community, so I have learned a lot about their culture over the years. Based on that experience, I can see what women in this movement are referring to, since there is a lot of favoritism placed on male children; something exhibited in other cultures as well. I know that from my upbringing in Latino culture as well, though my parents were not an extreme by any measure.

One can understand why this is from a historical perspective, but like so many of our antiquated views born out of necessity, they're rightfully being questioned and opposed in our times. Whether or not approaches like the 4B movement are the solution is highly questionable due to the population and demographic impacts their actions can lead to. It is a start at raising awareness and challenging customs though.

We are, whatever we think of ourselves still an animal and in many species, there is an element of violence against the other partner during or preceding sex. We like to think of ourselves as sophisticated and better than the other animals but is that also part of the human makeup - that we are (as a group and not as an individual) predetermined to violence against the other sex as part of courtship?

I think it's far less about courtship, since much of the violence against women is based on the premise men should have control over them and are to some extent "theirs".

As we develop as a species, are females developing out of this historic acceptance and slowly forcing societal change? If that's the case, it's one I support but I also strongly support that women should be free to choose whether they have children / families and or careers.

Modern living has afforded the societies able to sustain it the luxury of asking these kind of questions. I suspect that's why we see gender roles and expectations changing more in industrialized nations than we do in developing ones. A societies evolve and become more developed, the wealth generated across the classes starts to expand the flexibility a society has in its gender roles. I am being very generous is saying "flexibility", because all of the gains women have made across industrialized nations has been hard fought.

I agree that women should be able to choose the course of their lives without judgement or expectation other than what they set for themselves. However, this does come with consequences for a society where this is the case; especially if their incentive structure is based on wealth accumulation. Much of what we're discussing are those consequences, but by no means am I saying or implying we should revert to the gender roles of old, but perhaps reconsider the incentive structure.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Same thing with China, although China's problem is of their own making. By restricting the number of children one could have years ago, they're now dealing with the same problem, way too many old folks and not enough young people. Another example of why it's a bad idea to mess with mother nature.

China ended the one child policy about 6 or 7 years ago, and the birth rate has not changed. South Korea never had a one child policy and its birth rate is even lower.

The cost of raising children in Japan, South Korea and China is very high, at least for parents who want their kids to be successful. With many parents paying for tutoring. Heck in China the grooms parents are expected to provide a home for him before marriage.


Add in misogynistic behavior in South Korea and Japan and you get women who don't want to get married. Japan is just about the same, while at middle management levels China is better

 

[EnigmaO01]

Same thing with China, although China's problem is of their own making. By restricting the number of children one could have years ago, they're now dealing with the same problem, way too many old folks and not enough young people. Another example of why it's a bad idea to mess with mother nature.

They also aborted females didn't they? But it was my understanding the restrictions on number of children wasn't enforced in the rural areas?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It will most certainly be a disaster as their economies simply aren't able to tolerate shrinking populations and present demographies.


Automation that is within the realm of reason and possibility is no panacea as we can see in South Korea where it has by far the greatest proliferation of robotics in the world yet still faces serious issues arising from an aging and depleting population, so the solution must lie in immigration.

Re immigration

For a country like South Korea, Japan in which the country is generally very homogeneous, ethnically and culturally how much immigration can occur before it is no longer " Korean " or " Japanese ". Is having immigration a goal to save the country, the people, the culture or just the economy?

A country like Canada which has never ( outside of Quebec) a singular ethnic or cultural group, immigration serves primarily an economic role

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

They also aborted females didn't they? But it was my understanding the restrictions on number of children wasn't enforced in the rural areas?

Rural areas could have two children, recognized ethnic minorities never had the restrictions

 

[Surrealistik]

Re immigration

For a country like South Korea, Japan in which the country is generally very homogeneous, ethnically and culturally how much immigration can occur before it is no longer " Korean " or " Japanese ". Is having immigration a goal to save the country, the people, the culture or just the economy?

A country like Canada which has never ( outside of Quebec) a singular ethnic or cultural group, immigration serves primarily an economic role

Ultimately, they can choose either economic ruination (and all of its extremely unpleasant run on effects) or some degree of social heterogeneity; the choice is theirs.

Personally I find that to be a very easy decision in favour of the former; longstanding xenophobia will certainly complicate this choice for these countries.

To be fair to them however, the cohorts who display this xenophobia are slowly losing their grip on power, so there is hope.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Ultimately, they can choose either economic ruination (and all of its extremely unpleasant run on effects) or some degree of social heterogeneity; the choice is theirs.

Personally I find that to be a very easy decision in favour of the former; longstanding xenophobia will certainly complicate this choice for these countries.

To be fair to them however, the cohorts who display this xenophobia are slowly losing their grip on power, so there is hope.

It is an ebb and flow.

In India ethno nationalism is on the rise. Modi is promoting Hindu nationalism at the expense of Sikh, Muslim, Buddhists religions and certain other minority groups.

Much of eastern Europe seems to becoming more nationalistic. Heck even in parts of Canada racists are more open about being racist than any time after the late 80s and early 90s

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The only way to address the demographic issues these countries are experiencing before disaster strikes is opening them up to immigration... which is unlikely due to deep seated xenophobic elements that hold the reins of power.

Unfortunately for some of these countries, like China, which has been struggling with persistent emigration for decades in addition to a rapidly shrinking and aging populace, largely thanks to the moronic and shortsighted interference of the CCP, there is not a great deal of interest in immigrating for generally obvious reasons.

Immigration at scale destroys societies, it doesn’t help them

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It is an ebb and flow.

In India ethno nationalism is on the rise. Modi is promoting Hindu nationalism at the expense of Sikh, Muslim, Buddhists religions and certain other minority groups.

Much of eastern Europe seems to becoming more nationalistic. Heck even in parts of Canada racists are more open about being racist than any time after the late 80s and early 90s

Because old stock Canadians have been shut out of what is rightfully there’s by the 1% of China and India who are using Canada as a piggy bank. You see all these Chinese people in Vancouver who never seem to work yet they’re buying nice cars and making houses cost millions of dollars and they’re all connected CCP people.

Most Canadians would live better if the demographics matched 1950. And that’s just a fact

 

[Surrealistik]

China ended the one child policy about 6 or 7 years ago, and the birth rate has not changed.

The impact of the One Child Policy was undeniable which is precisely why the policy was terminated by the CCP, even if decades too late; this can be seen in the precipitous drop in fertility soon after the myopic and foolish policy was drafted that outpaced economic growth as an explaining factor, despite the fact that birth rates didn't increase much after it was rescinded, as well as the material gender imbalance favouring males directly resulting from it, both of which have significant run on effects.

Much, even most of the fertility declines can certainly be explained by China's growing wealth and development, but the substantial impact of the policy itself, above and beyond the influence of said development, is undeniable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy#Fertility_reduction

It is an ebb and flow.

In India ethno nationalism is on the rise. Modi is promoting Hindu nationalism at the expense of Sikh, Muslim, Buddhists religions and certain other minority groups.

Much of eastern Europe seems to becoming more nationalistic. Heck even in parts of Canada racists are more open about being racist than any time after the late 80s and early 90s

While there has certainly always been historical variation in the level of xenophobia, it's certainly been more entrenched and traditional in SEA countries over the course of modern history, it presents a substantial risk to the economic viability of those countries, unlike in the case of the other examples you mentioned; one can only hope that these attitudes fall out of favour, or at least influence, soon enough to avert catastrophe.

Immigration at scale destroys societies, it doesn’t help them

It is all but a demographic certainty that a dearth of immigration will absolutely destroy the economies of these SEA countries, much to the chagrin of people who prioritize homogeneity above all.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The impact of the One Child Policy was undeniable which is precisely why the policy was terminated by the CCP, even if decades too late; this can be seen in the precipitous drop in fertility soon after the myopic and foolish policy was drafted that outpaced economic growth as an explaining factor, despite the fact that birth rates didn't increase much after it was rescinded, as well as the material gender imbalance favouring males directly resulting from it, both of which have significant run on effects.

Much, even most of the fertility declines can certainly be explained by China's growing wealth and development, but the substantial impact of the policy itself, above and beyond the influence of said development, is undeniable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy#Fertility_reduction


While there has certainly always been historical variation in the level of xenophobia, it's certainly been more entrenched and traditional in SEA countries over the course of modern history, it presents a substantial risk to the economic viability of those countries, unlike in the case of the other examples you mentioned; one can only hope that these attitudes fall out of favour, or at least influence, soon enough to avert catastrophe.


It is all but a demographic certainty that a dearth of immigration will absolutely destroy the economies of these SEA countries, much to the chagrin of people who prioritize homogeneity above all.

Yeah, but you can recover if your country doesn’t become a different country, if you import a bunch Bangladeshis to Japan it’s no longer Japan, it’s Bangladesh North

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The impact of the One Child Policy was undeniable, even if the CCP finally realized decades too late that it had made a horrible error (which is precisely why the policy was terminated); this can be seen in the precipitous drop in fertility soon after the myopic and foolish policy was drafted that outpaced economic growth as an explaining factor, despite the fact that birth rates didn't increase much after it was rescinded as well as the material gender imbalance favouring males directly resulting from it, both of which have significant run on effects.

Much, even most of the fertility declines can certainly be explained by China's growing wealth and development, but the substantial impact of the policy itself, above and beyond the influence of said development, is undeniable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy#Fertility_reduction


While there has certainly always been historical variation in the level of xenophobia, it's certainly been more entrenched and traditional in SEA countries over the course of modern history, it presents a substantial risk to the economic viability of those countries, unlike in the case of the other examples you mentioned; one can only hope that these attitudes fall out of favour, or at least influence, soon enough to avert catastrophe.


It is all but a demographic certainty that a dearth of immigration will absolutely destroy the economies of these SEA countries, much to the chagrin of people who prioritize homogeneity above all.

The one child policy probably limited the population in China to 1.4 billion vs 1.7 billion. At which point if the economic growth and development continued as it had China would still have a below replacement level birth rate, it just would have been delayed by 10 years or so

If I am not mistaken most eastern European countries have below replacement birth rates, with many experiencing declining populations.

The only countries that have above replacement level birth rates generally are rural, primarily agricultural in nature. ( much of Africa, South Asia, parts of Central Asia) Heck Iran now has a below replacement level birth rate.


Robotics and AI will drastically change all the calculations when it comes to economics and population. Where even in a booming economy the unemployment rate may be high as robots will be cheaper. No jobs no people required, just lots of capital to buy the robots. Heck Wizards of the Coast/ Hasbro is using AI to generate content for AD&D ( an RPG game system ). So even the art world and creative jobs which were long thought safe for human jobs is at risk

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Some will argue that we do not, given the impact that has on resources and its toll on the planet as a result. The other side of this is while population growth is declining in wealthier nations, it is rising rapidly in others, and I suspect that will cause conflicts in the future given the migration patterns we see now due to economic, political, and climate instability.

Yeah, I also wonder when the defence argument kicks in, the ability of a population to sustain a military to defend itself.

For a country like South Korea, Japan in which the country is generally very homogeneous, ethnically and culturally how much immigration can occur before it is no longer " Korean " or " Japanese ". Is having immigration a goal to save the country, the people, the culture or just the economy?

What will be interesting is when the population of the young is not enough for a military defence force.

I remember reading that despite the xenophobic argument in Italy, whole abandoned villages were now the homes of migrants and in some cases, it's working but in others, tensions are flaring.
One regions is offering migrants up to £26,000 to move in and start up in business.

Italy paying people £26,000 to move to picturesque villages in southern region - but there's a catch

An Italian region is paying people to move to there to revitalise some of its smaller towns and villages, but there are strings attached.

www.lbc.co.uk

Interesting to see what the world looks like in 2-300 years and how much has changed by then.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Yeah, I also wonder when the defence argument kicks in, the ability of a population to sustain a military to defend itself.

True, but nation states without a military is not unheard of and we are at a point in time where depending where your country is located, the need for one is questionable. South Korea's situation is a bit more precarious given their northern neighbor though, however, there is the backing of the US that creates a buffer.

What will be interesting is when the population of the young is not enough for a military defence force.

What will likely be the more immediate concern is having enough workers as the older generation retires as well as healthcare workers to tend to its seniors. We have seen this play out in Japan, where the gap in available senior care workers has been filled by loosening immigration restrictions.

I remember reading that despite the xenophobic argument in Italy, whole abandoned villages were now the homes of migrants and in some cases, it's working but in others, tensions are flaring.
One regions is offering migrants up to £26,000 to move in and start up in business.

Italy paying people £26,000 to move to picturesque villages in southern region - but there's a catch

An Italian region is paying people to move to there to revitalise some of its smaller towns and villages, but there are strings attached.

www.lbc.co.uk

The demographic changes are always going to be a point of contention. We see it at play in this country with adverse reactions like the "Great Replacement" theory, and similar reactions in other nations. I can tell you having people shout "ENGLAND FOR THE ENGLISH!" whenever I was out and about with non-white friends in England was an interesting variation on a theme from what I have experienced in the US.

Interesting to see what the world looks like in 2-300 years and how much has changed by then.

Indeed.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

True, but nation states without a military is not unheard of and we are at a point in time where depending where your country is located, the need for one is questionable. South Korea's situation is a bit more precarious given their northern neighbor though, however, there is the backing of the US that creates a buffer.


What will likely be the more immediate concern is having enough workers as the older generation retires as well as healthcare workers to tend to its seniors. We have seen this play out in Japan, where the gap in available senior care workers has been filled by loosening immigration restrictions.


The demographic changes are always going to be a point of contention. We see it at play in this country with adverse reactions like the "Great Replacement" theory, and similar reactions in other nations. I can tell you having people shout "ENGLAND FOR THE ENGLISH!" whenever I was out and about with non-white friends in England was an interesting variation on a theme from what I have experienced in the US.


Indeed.

Re South Korea.

North Korea outside of its nukes is not that big of a threat.

It has half the population, a low birth rate, high levels of malnutrition and one of the worst economies in the world.


It built up large artillery force along the border, and unfortunately South Korea let Seoul which us just South of the border get very large, it's metro area having I believe half of South Korea's population.

Overall it is very well situated to beat North Korea if it chooses to ( outside of nukes of course