My thoughts about Trump

[WCH]

You may be right, you personally don't seem to bitch about Obama the way some of the conservative Trump folks do. But they are still bitching about it...8 year and 7 months later. I think we all need to buckle up, Trump's ride is just beginning.

But I don't understand on what grounds Obama would have been impeached on. First I've heard about it.
Trump...I think many would be surprised if he finishes his term without a serious attempt to impeach. It will be harder than I think many of us imagine. But if it's criminal charges, I think there is a good chance. If the Putin sanctions vote is any indication?

For Obama, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Syria, using the IRS to target political enemies, etc.

 

[Mach]

For Obama, Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Syria, using the IRS to target political enemies, etc.

Yeah, none of that is impeachable as it relates to Obama.

It's also my recollection that each of those was thoroughly investigated, and Benghazi was the only one Republicans simply wouldn't let go, and they of course found nothing additional to add, other than the unrelated private email servers that they used to crucify HRC with, and Weiner's weiner.

Contrast that to the special investigator and what...two grand jury's now?

 

[Lovebug]

Yeah, none of that is impeachable as it relates to Obama.

It's also my recollection that each of those was thoroughly investigated, and Benghazi was the only one Republicans simply wouldn't let go, and they of course found nothing additional to add, other than the unrelated private email servers that they used to crucify HRC with, and Weiner's weiner.

Contrast that to the special investigator and what...two grand jury's now?

The difference seems to be that Trump is going after the political insiders, while Obama was not. That makes Trump target #1

 

[WCH]

Yeah, none of that is impeachable as it relates to Obama.

It's also my recollection that each of those was thoroughly investigated, and Benghazi was the only one Republicans simply wouldn't let go, and they of course found nothing additional to add, other than the unrelated private email servers that they used to crucify HRC with, and Weiner's weiner.

Contrast that to the special investigator and what...two grand jury's now?

By a bunch f Democrats...witch hunt.

Obama made sure someone else got thrown under the bus.

http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/25-impeachable-obama-scandals-far-more-serious-than-comey-firing/

 

[katzgar]

That's not bitching about Obama. Simply stating that if the GOP controlled House didn't impeach Obama, they won't do it to Trump.

thats probably true but given trumps numbers the house just might flip to democrats this next midterm, trump will likely be impeached in that scenario.

 

[WCH]

thats probably true but given trumps numbers the house just might flip to democrats this next midterm, trump will likely be impeached in that scenario.

A lot of ifs

 

[katzgar]

A lot of ifs

yup, like is full of them.

 

[Thorgasm]

No...not in 'this thread'...specifically because the ground rules were laid that the discussion should be civil. Care to extend that out to the site in general? That happens pretty much every day here.

And yeah...you are right. i do tend to attack morons that would start 7 threads on Donald Trump eating a steak with ketchup and any of the other non stop bull**** that goes on. Its beyond tiresome.

I skip over those threads. I am sure it does happen.

No matter who does it, putting ketchup on steak should affect your credit rating.

 

[Thorgasm]

I don't deny his lying, and I don't freaking understand it. Why would anyone lie about the BSA of America supposed phone call? Does that make the slightest bit of sense to you? It doesn't to me. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention lately to the Russia connection. My life has been at sixes and sevens of late. I am not ready to throw Trump under the bus. Time will tell, won't it?

I will tell you why he lies. Because is a narcissist, he is extremely vain. He never admits fault. He always talks himself up to "the best ever", "the greatest of all time", and "like no other" levels. He can't help but lie because he can't stand to look weak.

 

[code1211]

Politics and numbers will determine if he is impeached or not. There is ample grounds for it.

Please list those grounds that could not be applied to his predecessor.

 

[code1211]

Actually, a President is usually responsible for their part in the economy after being in office about a year, becoming more responsible as time goes on. That allows any policy that they have put in place to have impact. Of course, the impact depends on how bad things had been. Obama inherited a TERRIBLE economy from Bush. Trump has inherited a rising economy from Obama. The current economy is still responding to Obama. If it still rising 6-9 months from now, that's due to Trump.

Obama did some things that were good for the economy.

Judging by the performance of the stock market, the mere anticipation of his departure from office was chief among these.

The terrible economy inherited by Obama was resultant from the actions of Presidents and Congresses dating back many decades. The Glass-Steagall final repeal, as an example, was signed by Bill Clinton.

If the bubble had not burst in 2007-8, it would have burst soon after. That said, there is not a person in the country that did not either contribute to or benefit from the Sub-Prime lending debacle. in this way, EVERYONE in the USA was responsible.

Obama, IMHO, characterized the economy as a pie of fixed or shrinking size and the rich needed to be stripped of their wealth to make the poor better off. A zero sum game means some need to suffer for others to prosper. It also fits into the victim/victor paradigm that Obama was constantly selling.

Removing the reward part of the risk/reward set up leaves only the risk.

Trump, again IMHO, rightly characterizes the economy as an ever growing fountain always accommodating the needs of more people who care to risk their time or treasure or both.

The Stock Markets are a measure of nothing more than hope and confidence.

Trump offered hope of a positive change. The markets' growth and the resulting 4 trillion or so increase in the wealth of the citizenry is a welcome change.

The way to make the economy fly isn't much different than raising children. Carrots and sticks are both useful. Constant use of the stick with no carrots and the kids become afraid to venture.

When ALL actions are punished, how will the right actions be repeated?

 

[katzgar]

Obama did some things that were good for the economy.

Judging by the performance of the stock market, the mere anticipation of his departure from office was chief among these.

The terrible economy inherited by Obama was resultant from the actions of Presidents and Congresses dating back many decades. The Glass-Steagall final repeal, as an example, was signed by Bill Clinton.

If the bubble had not burst in 2007-8, it would have burst soon after. That said, there is not a person in the country that did not either contribute to or benefit from the Sub-Prime lending debacle. in this way, EVERYONE in the USA was responsible.

Obama, IMHO, characterized the economy as a pie of fixed or shrinking size and the rich needed to be stripped of their wealth to make the poor better off. A zero sum game means some need to suffer for others to prosper. It also fits into the victim/victor paradigm that Obama was constantly selling.

Removing the reward part of the risk/reward set up leaves only the risk.

Trump, again IMHO, rightly characterizes the economy as an ever growing fountain always accommodating the needs of more people who care to risk their time or treasure or both.

The Stock Markets are a measure of nothing more than hope and confidence.

Trump offered hope of a positive change. The markets' growth and the resulting 4 trillion or so increase in the wealth of the citizenry is a welcome change.

The way to make the economy fly isn't much different than raising children. Carrots and sticks are both useful. Constant use of the stick with no carrots and the kids become afraid to venture.

When ALL actions are punished, how will the right actions be repeated?

your post is attempting to paint the economy as better off under Trump. The figures show otherwise it's doing just as well now as it did under Obama.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Obama did some things that were good for the economy.

Judging by the performance of the stock market, the mere anticipation of his departure from office was chief among these.

The terrible economy inherited by Obama was resultant from the actions of Presidents and Congresses dating back many decades. The Glass-Steagall final repeal, as an example, was signed by Bill Clinton.

If the bubble had not burst in 2007-8, it would have burst soon after. That said, there is not a person in the country that did not either contribute to or benefit from the Sub-Prime lending debacle. in this way, EVERYONE in the USA was responsible.

Obama, IMHO, characterized the economy as a pie of fixed or shrinking size and the rich needed to be stripped of their wealth to make the poor better off. A zero sum game means some need to suffer for others to prosper. It also fits into the victim/victor paradigm that Obama was constantly selling.

Removing the reward part of the risk/reward set up leaves only the risk.

Trump, again IMHO, rightly characterizes the economy as an ever growing fountain always accommodating the needs of more people who care to risk their time or treasure or both.

The Stock Markets are a measure of nothing more than hope and confidence.

Trump offered hope of a positive change. The markets' growth and the resulting 4 trillion or so increase in the wealth of the citizenry is a welcome change.

The way to make the economy fly isn't much different than raising children. Carrots and sticks are both useful. Constant use of the stick with no carrots and the kids become afraid to venture.

When ALL actions are punished, how will the right actions be repeated?

What we see now with the economy is nothing more that a continuation of growth that we saw under Obama. Talk to me in 6 months. That's when anything that Trump has done will have an effect on the economy. Right now we are still reaping the rewards of the Obama administration.

 

[haymarket]

Please list those grounds that could not be applied to his predecessor.

Why? This is NOT about his predecessor or his predecessor or anyone else other than Trump who is now in office and subject to impeachment.

 

[code1211]

This is the Internet, please don't lie and cherry pick your time lines to try and make Obama look bad. Its too easy to check.

Under Obama the DOW rose 140+%, 1 of the biggest gains in history. It was in the 7000's when Obama took over, and almost 20,000 when he left.

Bush was rightfully blamed because the recession started on his watch. And Obama will be credited because the economy he handed to Trump was still going good.

Thank You President Obama.

The financial markets were in the dumper when Bush left office due to the Real Estate Bubble having burst. The parts of the engine were still there, but the engine had stopped running.

The conditions that led to this were put in place by every President and Congress dating back to the 30's. Bill Clinton signed the bill that was the final repeal of Glass-Steagall. Enter the age of the Sub-Prime borrower. This was a social engineering approach to lending that allowed people unqualified to borrow money to get loans.

The resulting loans were defaulted but the lending institutions sold the bad loans representing them as assets with value as parts of "bundles". The purchasing institutions did not perform their due diligence and put their investors at risk. Does this make Clinton the perp in this little crime drama? No more, in my opinion, than any lawmaker back through the Great Depression.

The Burst Bubble was the result of 80 years of greedy law makers and do-gooder law makers all making bad policy, doing wrong things and setting the stage for the eventual calamity for their own reasons. NOBODY ESCAPES BLAME. That said, the bankers were deceptive thieves playing musical chairs hoping to not be the one left standing when the music stopped.

Obama was in office during a time of market rise. Getting back to the peak of 2007 required 5 years of businesses fighting head winds.


http://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart
[FONT=&quot][h=1]Dow Jones - 100 Year Historical Chart[/h]Interactive chart of the Dow Jones Industrial Average stock market index for the last 100 years. Historical data is inflation-adjusted using the headline CPI and each data point represents the month-end closing value. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value. The current price of the Dow Jones Industrial Average as of August 11, 2017 is 21,889.87.


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[code1211]

Actually I do credit President G.W Bush and President Obama for knowing the importance of not abandoning the US auto companies when the banks no longer had monies to lend the auto companies because of the financial meltdown. When congress would not loan the US auto companies money to stay in business President Bush gave them a bridge loan and President Obama made a deal to loan them money on the condition the US owned part of the company until the loan was repaid.

It is my belief that if the US auto companies dissolved , all auto manufacturing would have left the US because they all relied on the same US parts manufactures to get parts. One in ten working people would have been lost their jobs if that had happened.( unfortualy many did lose their jobs even so )

If the stock market and jobs had not started their recovery during the Obama administration , we would not have the record breaking numbers in the stock market we have had for the last few years.

Bush rescued the Financial Industry With the part of the TARP that he spent.

He left the other half of those monies for his successor to use as he saw fit. Obama made the Auto industry Bail Outs.

The Financial industry paid back the loans with a small profit. Most of the institutions to which the monies were given did not need or want them, but the Government did not want to erode the confidence in any of the institutions so they all had to get their share.

The Government did not enjoy the same success in receiving payment on the loans to the Auto Industry.

However, the dealings involving money with those that know how to hide those dealings are pretty murky. Between the government, the Fed, big business, big unions and the financial institutions, the main goal is to mask the actual deals. The real goal(s) is to skim as much money off the top as can be skimmed without going to jail.

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670

Barack Obama says banks paid back all the federal bailout money | PolitiFact New Hampshire

 

[code1211]

your post is attempting to paint the economy as better off under Trump. The figures show otherwise it's doing just as well now as it did under Obama.

To the contrary, my post does not really address the actual strength or weakness of the economy.

I was addressing the hope or the lack of hope held by those that invest in the Stack Markets as evidenced by the money they invest and the returns they realize.

That the trends of the investment correlate to the election of Trump is a matter of data, not opinion.

 

[katzgar]

To the contrary, my post does not really address the actual strength or weakness of the economy.

I was addressing the hope or the lack of hope held by those that invest in the Stack Markets as evidenced by the money they invest and the returns they realize.

That the trends of the investment correlate to the election of Trump is a matter of data, not opinion.

You need to re-read your post.

 

[code1211]

What we see now with the economy is nothing more that a continuation of growth that we saw under Obama. Talk to me in 6 months. That's when anything that Trump has done will have an effect on the economy. Right now we are still reaping the rewards of the Obama administration.

Of course, you're right.

The Economy and the Dow jones Industrial Average are not, however, exactly the same thing.

The Economy is what did happen. The DOW and the other indexes are more about what will happen.

One is history. The other is about the future and therefore is a good measure of the hope that people hold.

People invest based on what they believe will happen. Americans are a generally optimistic bunch. In the majority, we seem to embrace hope as a default position.

Many, many more people seemed to embrace the belief on November 9, 2016, that the economy would be improving more and faster in the very near future.

An increase of about 4000 points, 18% of the value of the DOW, has been posted in the months since the election on November 8, 2016.

An increase of about 4000 points was also posted during the 8 years between October 2007 and October 2016.

Can we point to any event that occurred on November 8, 2016 that might correlate to the acceleration in this increase?

Dow Jones - 100 Year Historical Chart | MacroTrends

 

[code1211]

Why? This is NOT about his predecessor or his predecessor or anyone else other than Trump who is now in office and subject to impeachment.

You seem to be making biased claims based on blind hate that are not founded in any kind of rationality.

 

[code1211]

You need to re-read your post.

I did.

The point that I was trying to put forth, apparently very poorly, is that there is greater hope displayed by the rise of the DOW and the other markets since election day than at any point in the recent past.

Can we agree that a 4000 point rise in the DOW and 30 to 40 record closes in each of the major indices since November 8, 2016 represent hope and confidence among investors?

 

[katzgar]

I did.

The point that I was trying to put forth, apparently very poorly, is that there is greater hope displayed by the rise of the DOW and the other markets since election day than at any point in the recent past.

Can we agree that a 4000 point rise in the DOW and 30 to 40 record closes in each of the major indices since November 8, 2016 represent hope and confidence among investors?

We should be able to agree with the numbers and they show that the Dow and the economy have both increased at at about the same rate as they were increasing under Obama

 

[haymarket]

You seem to be making biased claims based on blind hate that are not founded in any kind of rationality.

Then you are not reading my posts properly or are not comprehending them. My opinion about Trump is entirely rational. Too bad he is not.

 

[code1211]

We should be able to agree with the numbers and they show that the Dow and the economy have both increased at at about the same rate as they were increasing under Obama

Economy: Probably.

Dow: Not even close.

 

[code1211]

Then you are not reading my posts properly or are not comprehending them. My opinion about Trump is entirely rational. Too bad he is not.

Even in a post claiming that you are rational you include blind bias.