My take on abortion...

[Spartacus FPV]

Then he's wrong

I happen to agree with you--it's Ten who says otherwise.

Well, then 1069's confused when she says "we will never" ban it, and that it is a "constitutionally-protected right."

1st of all who is "we" because if Roe were overturned, states very well could. And secondly just because there isn't a law against something does not mean it is a right. Our rights are stated, and worded very carefully. Our rights are not what we can do, but what the government cannot do to us.

 

[Felicity]

Re: Then he's wrong

Well, then 1069's confused when she says "we will never" ban it, and that it is a "constitutionally-protected right."

1st of all who is "we" because if Roe were overturned, states very well could. And secondly just because there isn't a law against something does not mean it is a right. Our rights are stated, and worded very carefully. Our rights are not what we can do, but what the government cannot do to us.

--My state has the law in place already. Many do. Ten cites the implied privacy and some "body sovereignty" bologna as her proof when she actually wants to try...but lately she just says "That's how it is and it will never change" and then runs away smugly...We've been round and round.

I see the founding documents in much the same way you describe.

 

[Navy Pride]

Sound advice, since there is no underlying logic and reason to it, and trying to pretend there is only makes one look increasingly foolish.
Also the reason abortion will never be illegal; we don't revoke the constitutionally-protected rights of the populace for no valid or logical reason.

I know abortion will never be outlawed.........I just want Roe V Wade overturned and abortion put back in the hands of the states where it belongs.....

I can't even comprehend 40,000,000 abortions.......That is about the population of California.............I jusr wish abortions for convenience or as a means for birth control could be outlawed.........If that were to happen I believe that 35,000,000 million of thos abortions could have been avoided.......

 

[Bones]

If that were to happen I believe that 35,000,000 million of thos abortions could have been avoided.......

If 35,000,000 abortions were prevented, what do you suppose would be the state of your country had these people lived?

 

[RatedPanda]

If 35,000,000 abortions were prevented, what do you suppose would be the state of your country had these people lived?

Good point. It always seems that the ones against abortion are ALSO against the taxes needed to support any babies that would be given up for adoption. Apparently they were more important to protect as a fetus then a baby... :roll:

 

[Navy Pride]

If 35,000,000 abortions were prevented, what do you suppose would be the state of your country had these people lived?

I don't know but I expect there would be a bunch of PHDs maybe someone with a cure for cancer or AIDS.......What a waste............

 

[Navy Pride]

Good point. It always seems that the ones against abortion are ALSO against the taxes needed to support any babies that would be given up for adoption. Apparently they were more important to protect as a fetus then a baby... :roll:

I got a flash for you my left wing friend..........There are long waiting lists up to 3 years for people wanting to adopt new born infants...........

Thank God you mother wasn't having a bad hair day when she found out she was pregnant with you.............:rofl

 

[Bones]

I don't know but I expect there would be a bunch of PHDs maybe someone with a cure for cancer or AIDS.......What a waste............

Guess you haven't thought of it. Don't know any pro - lifers who'd be willing to adopt a baby, do you? Seems pro - lifers are content to tell people to have their babies, but do we see them adopting? Nope.

Also, it's harsh to say this, but if we do develop a cure for cancer and/or AIDS, the population is likely to increase even more.
Both diseases are horrific, but people are meant to die, no one is meant to live forever, and if we come up with a cure for every disease out there, about the only thing we'd die of is old age.
I am not sure that this is a good thing, but that's another debate altogether.

 

[Navy Pride]

Re: Then he's wrong

Well, then 1069's confused when she says "we will never" ban it, and that it is a "constitutionally-protected right."

1st of all who is "we" because if Roe were overturned, states very well could. And secondly just because there isn't a law against something does not mean it is a right. Our rights are stated, and worded very carefully. Our rights are not what we can do, but what the government cannot do to us.

Thank you............:cheers:
We don't agree on much but I am with you on this one........

 

[Navy Pride]

Guess you haven't thought of it. Don't know any pro - lifers who'd be willing to adopt a baby, do you? Seems pro - lifers are content to tell people to have their babies, but do we see them adopting? Nope.

Also, it's harsh to say this, but if we do develop a cure for cancer and/or AIDS, the population is likely to increase even more.Both diseases are horrific, but people are meant to die, no one is meant to live forever, and if we come up with a cure for every disease out there, about the only thing we'd die of is old age.
I am not sure that this is a good thing, but that's another debate altogether.

Nice cop out..........


I got a flash for you my left wing friend..........There are long waiting lists up to 3 years for people wanting to adopt new born infants...........


So we should just let all the AIDS and cancer patients die becasue it might cause over crowding?

How ****ing disgusting is that...........blowup:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I got a flash for you my left wing friend..........There are long waiting lists up to 3 years for people wanting to adopt new born infants...........

And I've got a newsflash for you, my rightwing friend. Your position is invalid. Why not adopt older children? There are more than half a million older children waiting to be adopted...and only 17% of them will ever be. Do you know what the average age of a child waiting for adoption is, NP? 8 years old. What about these children. The reason there is such a waiting list isn't because of the absence of children to adopt or because of abortion. It is because of people's unwillingness to adopt and help a child that isn't an infant. Your position would make sense if there were no children waiting to be adopted. Since this isn't true, your position on this is invalid.

 

[Bones]

I got a flash for you my left wing friend..........There are long waiting lists up to 3 years for people wanting to adopt new born infants...........

So we should just let all the AIDS and cancer patients die becasue it might cause over crowding?

Firstly, the people waiting to adopt newborns are not you and the people who think like you.
Second, people are very picky, and selfish, for that matter, because everyone wants a newborn because they are just so cute and cuddly. No one wants an older child, who is already named, and who can read and talk, because what fun would that be?
Thirdly, what would happen if everyone lived forever? What if the only cause of death was natural causes? What if abortion were banned?
Important issues to think about, but no one thinks about the future, do they? Hell, you won't be alive then, who gives a ****, right?

 

[RatedPanda]

My whole point with NP's reply wasn't so much the amount of children waiting to be adopted, but specifically about the CARE of them that are NOT adopted. So someone is against abortion on morale grounds? Ok...but then what about that baby's care after it's born? When it grows up, which programs are we going to have to ensure it's well being, since we didn't allow the mother to abort it? Why is it, after the fetus has grown into a baby, that most conservatives seem to abandon their morale grounds. To me, it seems the FETUS was more important to those pro-lifers then the actual baby itself. Why is it these pro-lifers are ALSO against any type of tax program to support these babies left up for adoption?

 

[tecoyah]

My whole point with NP's reply wasn't so much the amount of children waiting to be adopted, but specifically about the CARE of them that are NOT adopted. So someone is against abortion on morale grounds? Ok...but then what about that baby's care after it's born? When it grows up, which programs are we going to have to ensure it's well being, since we didn't allow the mother to abort it? Why is it, after the fetus has grown into a baby, that most conservatives seem to abandon their morale grounds. To me, it seems the FETUS was more important to those pro-lifers then the actual baby itself. Why is it these pro-lifers are ALSO against any type of tax program to support these babies left up for adoption?

To my mind, the issue returns to reproductive rights at this point, as it seems clear from your point (and contraception, parental notification, abstinence education, etc...) that between a religious underpinning, and busybody mentality many who fight so hard for the fetus are actually fighting against personal freedom for women. These conversations rarely get beyond the "You Murdered 40 million Babies" Stage, primarily because the Pro-Life crowd seems uninterested in following the logic to the next level, and seem equally uninterested in discussing the implications on society should they actually succeed in banning abortion.

 

[Felicity]

The availability of abortion promotes the type of behaviors that lead to unintended pregnancies that lead to abortion--the Supreme Court ADMITS it's mistake in legal ruling.

The claim that the 45 MILLION dead human beings due to abortion would have over populated if abortion hadn't been made readily available is a faulty conclusion concerning the social environment that contributed to their conception in the first place.

 

[Navy Pride]

And I've got a newsflash for you, my rightwing friend. Your position is invalid. Why not adopt older children? There are more than half a million older children waiting to be adopted...and only 17% of them will ever be. Do you know what the average age of a child waiting for adoption is, NP? 8 years old. What about these children. The reason there is such a waiting list isn't because of the absence of children to adopt or because of abortion. It is because of people's unwillingness to adopt and help a child that isn't an infant. Your position would make sense if there were no children waiting to be adopted. Since this isn't true, your position on this is invalid.

Because that is not what this thread is about.....Its about killing, innocent defenseless babies in the womb not about children already born.

I will tell you one thing if you ask all those poor children in orphanages who they had rather been butchered in the womb then born I would be willing to bet that to a child that would all say they would rather be born.........You see when your born you may not be in the best of circumstances but your alive........Where there is life there is hope.......Think about it........Maybe put yourself in their situation.........

I am not saying its right but couples want to adopt new borns......that is a fact............I have friends who waited 3 years to adopt, finally gave up and adopted a child from South Korea.......

 

[Navy Pride]

Firstly, the people waiting to adopt newborns are not you and the people who think like you.
Second, people are very picky, and selfish, for that matter, because everyone wants a newborn because they are just so cute and cuddly. No one wants an older child, who is already named, and who can read and talk, because what fun would that be?
Thirdly, what would happen if everyone lived forever? What if the only cause of death was natural causes? What if abortion were banned?
Important issues to think about, but no one thinks about the future, do they? Hell, you won't be alive then, who gives a ****, right?

What does that have to do with anything? The fact remains there is a huge waiting list for infants.......Besides how do you know they are not me? Maybe I want to adopt and infant or maybe my daughter does........you don't even know me.........

I guess your for killing the elderly too...Hell its to crowded so lets get rid of them........You sound like Hitler wanting to kill all the jews.........

You are disgusting.........

 

[Navy Pride]

My whole point with NP's reply wasn't so much the amount of children waiting to be adopted, but specifically about the CARE of them that are NOT adopted. So someone is against abortion on morale grounds? Ok...but then what about that baby's care after it's born? When it grows up, which programs are we going to have to ensure it's well being, since we didn't allow the mother to abort it? Why is it, after the fetus has grown into a baby, that most conservatives seem to abandon their morale grounds. To me, it seems the FETUS was more important to those pro-lifers then the actual baby itself. Why is it these pro-lifers are ALSO against any type of tax program to support these babies left up for adoption?[/QUOTE]

Please provide a link for that statement.........I belong to a church that supports a home for unwed mothers.......I contribute to that support............

 

[1069]

It is because of people's unwillingness to adopt and help a child that isn't an infant.

Most couples also prefer to adopt a healthy, white infant without special needs or disabilities.
That is what the "three year waiting period" NP refers to is for.
Healthy white newborns.

Another newsflash: the majority of the fetuses aborted aren't white, and many of them- black, latino, or white- wouldn't have been healthy and would've had special needs.

Adoptive couples wouldn't have wanted them any more than their mothers did.
Society wouldn't have wanted them.
And we all know it.

 

[Navy Pride]

Most couples also prefer to adopt a healthy, white infant without special needs or disabilities.
That is what the "three year waiting period" NP refers to is for.
Healthy white newborns.

Another newsflash: the majority of the fetuses aborted aren't white, and many of them- black, latino, or white- wouldn't have been healthy and would've had special needs.

Adoptive couples wouldn't have wanted them any more than their mothers did.
Society wouldn't have wanted them.
And we all know it.

Young couples especially if the woman is not able to bear children want infants......I believe its a natural instinct..........

 

[1069]

Young couples especially if the woman is not able to bear children want infants......I believe its a natural instinct..........

I'm sure that's a great comfort to the nearly one million parentless children languishing in foster care nationwide, the vast majority of whom will age out of state care without ever finding a permanent family.

Are we supposed to sympathize with these couples?

 

[OKgrannie]

Young couples especially if the woman is not able to bear children want infants......I believe its a natural instinct..........

So what? It's not any individual woman's obligation to endure pregnancy/childbirth and the emotional trauma that follows giving up a child for adoption in order to satisfy some other woman's desire for a child.

 

[Navy Pride]

I'm sure that's a great comfort to the nearly one million parentless children languishing in foster care nationwide, the vast majority of whom will age out of state care without ever finding a permanent family.

Are we supposed to sympathize with these couples?

Again when you have some spare time go into one of those orphanages and ask those children would they had rather have been butchered in the womb or born and have a chance at life..........Where there is life there is hope.........Where there is butchery in the womb there is none...........

Maybe not sympathy but a degree of understanding........

 

[Navy Pride]

So what? It's not any individual woman's obligation to endure pregnancy/childbirth and the emotional trauma that follows giving up a child for adoption in order to satisfy some other woman's desire for a child.

Again who speaks for the innocent defenseless baby in the womb who only wants the same chance at life you had.........

 

[OKgrannie]

Again who speaks for the innocent defenseless baby in the womb who only wants the same chance at life you had.........

An "innocent defenseless baby in the womb" doesn't want ANYTHING. It doesn't have a BRAIN to want with. It has the same wants as a rock.