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My solution for eliminating our oil dependency.

It all comes down to rate--we won't be able to produce non-conventional oil at the same rate, or for as long as, unconventional oil. And what we do get will be more expensive, both in terms of dollars and energy invested.
 
There is a bio diesel in use now. Hemp seed oil, it is the safest and cleanest burning oil man can use as a pertoleum product. They will not release the ban on Hemp, it's that simple.

http://www.mtn.org/iasa/hempcar.html

http://www.hempcar.org/biofacts.shtml

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread19515/pg1

http://www.rense.com/general67/FORD.HTM

http://india_resource.tripod.com/alternateenergy.html

http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/baudr318.html

http://www.crrh.org/cannabis/biodiesel.html

Try a search yourself for Hemp Seed oil bio-diesel, the results may amaze you.

KMS
 
Of course. But we'll never make enough of it to support our current lifestyle. We'd need 400 times the entire biomass on planet earth every year to do that.
 
ashurbanipal said:
Of course. But we'll never make enough of it to support our current lifestyle. We'd need 400 times the entire biomass on planet earth every year to do that.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, where did you get this figure?
 
I believe that the information in the previous was misread and or reversed in its meaning from this site.

http://www.freelabs.com/~whitis/politics/hemp/

Where it states the following:

Hemp produces 4 times as much biomass per acre as the nearest competitor. 1 acre of hemp can produce 1000 gallons of methanol. That is enough to drive 20,000 miles on a 20mpg small SUV or 50,000 miles using a hybrid car. The average household consumes 3.6 gallons of crude oil per day (import and domestic, all uses); this does not count coal but it does include most cars, trucks, buses, trains, portable generators, lawn mowers, fuel oil heaters, petroleum fired power plants. That number appears to include liquid natural gas as well as oil that becomes gasoline, diesel, fuel oil, motor oil, and plastic (yes, hemp can be converted into plastic). It does not include a billion tons/year of coal (which would be equivalent to about 1/3 more crude oil). So, approximately 1.3 acres per household would eliminate the need for petroleum products or 2.6 acres if you rotate with a nitrogen fixing crop which is then plowed under. There are around 100 million households. The US
government pays farmers to not grow crops on 90 million acres of farmland. Another 500 million acres of marginal farmland is available. Hemp does not deplete the soil (except for a little nitrogen) and generally improves soil conditions. To avoid fertilizer use and qualify as organic, though, hemp should be rotated with a nitrogen fixing crop. Hemp does not require pesticides or herbicides. And unlike crop land that lies unused, in the event of a food shortage you can eat the hemp seeds. And hemp is fast growing so it can not only be planted after another crop is harvested, it may even increase next years yield of that crop. There is a lot of additional farm land, timber land, or ranch land (cows can eat hemp) that could be used. Not to mention back yards, railroad and utility right of ways, highway medians, etc. Biomass fuels do not contribute to global warming. The carbon dioxide produced by burning biomass comes from plants which in turn get their carbon out of the atmosphere. Hemp is said to grow in all 50 US states. About 40% of our oil use is produced domestically. Surprisingly, less than 15% seems to come from the Persian Gulf. Taken to the extreme, the US has a total land area of 3537438 square miles or 2.27 billion acres which, if you could devote it all to hemp could produce 2.27 trillion gallons of fuel every other year or 1.13 trillion gallons per year; that is about 8.6 times our annual consumption. So, about 12% of land area would be needed to replace petroleum. Since hemp grows at 4 times the rate of trees (assume it is probably 4 times as effective against greenhouse gases), it would presumably be OK from a greenhouse perspective to replace trees with hemp if you didn't burn it. For every 4 acres of trees you replaced with hemp, about 1 acre would presumably need to be set aside to offset the original anti-greenhouse effect of the trees. Of course, in the interest of biodiversity you may not want one species of plant dominating that much of the ecosystem.

The only change to the above statement I can disgree with is that Hemp takes nitrogen to grow, this is true as all plants need nitrogen, however the decay of the roots then replenishes the nitrogen back into the soil. The roots also hold the soil, and filter water seeping into the ground.

Hemp has also shown to clean the soil of oil based products, aluminum and other heavy metals. Even nuclear waste at Chernobyl was effectivly removed from the soil by a natural process of this plants character.

www.hemp.net/news/9901/06/hemp_eats_chernobyl_waste.html

So even if nuclear is the chosen means of energy, shouldn't we lift the ban just in case of an accident? To clean up after we mess things up?



KMS
 
The article you presented states this fact:

"Can you imagine loading 40 acres worth of wheat – stalks, roots and all – into the tank of your car or SUV every 20 miles?" asks ecologist Jeff Dukes, whose study will be published in the November issue of the journal Climatic Change.

The key word of this paragraph is wheat, which is quite diffrent from Hemp. I am sure this study is accurate for wheat not for Hemp.

KMS
 
ashurbanipal said:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-10/uou-bm9102603.php

See here for starters. I think you can also link to the complete results through www.monbiot.com.

Here, the article says that it's 400 times all the plant life on the planet, though the quote I read from the paper said "biotta," which would indicate both plant and animal life. Either way, it's a staggering number.
Click to expand...

Now, looking into the article further, the figure of 400 times all the plant matter (not animals), has some further figures behind it. For one thing, it was talking about the amount of ancient plant life that ended up as modern petroleum reserves. The point that I think is most important is that, "only one-10,750th of the carbon in plants deposited on ancient seafloors, deltas and lakebeds ends up as oil and natural gas". So, we are now looking at a figure of 1/10750th of 400x the plant biomass. That now gives us about 3.72% of the plant biomass.
 
MrFungus,

Sorry, I missed this post when you first made it.

It appears you are correct. I obviously misunderstood the nature of the claim--thanks for pointing this out. The question, though, is whether modern processes of conversion are efficient enough to make a difference. I don't think they are.

For instance, Thermal Depolymerization produces about 600 pounds of oil from 2000 pounds of turkey offal. Sounds like a lot, but that's only 2.5 barrels of oil. Consider that 15% of that total has to be used to fuel the conversion process, and we're down to 2.125 barrels. From that, we'll get about 41 gallons of gasoline, or about 123 pounds. So (by weight, anyway), we only get 6/100ths of the original material used as an input in the form of gasoline. Now, gasoline is not the only product of oil; the other major energy fractions would be kerosine and diesel, which would give us a little over twice that weight. So we get up to 14/100ths. This is of course not nearly the low ratio of conversion suggested by Dukes, but it's also not high enough to justify going this route.

See:

http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/4/chemistry/petroleum/knowl/4/2index.htm?oilcost.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Now, to my knowledge, no one has tried hemp. Not that I'm against them doing so, but I don't know why we'd get a lot better conversion ratio out of it.

Ethanol production comes with its own set of problems, one of the most important of which is that it takes more energy to produce than you get out of it.

See:

http://healthandenergy.com/ethanol.htm

Also, see my analysis posted in the other oil thread.

It's worth noting that Pimental has come under attack from the Corn industry for his study. They reach a somewhat different conclusion--namely that the net energy gain is 1:1.5 (for every 2 gallons of ethanol used to produce it, you get 3 gallons of ethanol).

It is, of course, possible to make ethanol or bio-diesel out of other plants, but I don't think the range is so great as to seriously effect these findings.
 
I keep seeing the admission that Hemp Seed oil is a viable alternative to this problem, then just as quickly it is dismissed. It seems that hemp seeds are judged under the evidence of wheat, corn, or other grain products as the cost is too high for conversion into a useable product. The fact is all other grains except Hemp do.

Hemp seeds properties contain a higher concentration of basic elements than other grains, on physical properties alone the nature of Hemp makes it among the others a truly viable alternative.

Containing higher amounts of B6 and B12 vitamins, the nutrient factor of these seeds alone are astounding. The natural lubrication and higher density of hemp seed oil is much higher than any corn, wheat or seed product we have found today. The Scientific evidence is overwhelming, not all seeds or seed oils are the same.

The debate to seperate Hemp Oil from the others has not even been considered, and the proof that Hemp Seed Oil is a viable source of almost all fuel consumption needs would no longer be dismissed making this a totally different debate.

I am asking you all to stop looking at the overall process and take deep look at the properties of what you are processing. HEMP SEED OIL.

Hemp Seed Oil needs to be looked at for its own merits, not labeled and shoved into a category as the same as all of these others as "plant based." Judge it on it's own merits look for yourself and stop the stereotyping of a plant. (OMG, I do sound like a tree hugger.) :doh

Heres some other tree hugging Hippy "evidence": (Can't beat them, Join 'em.)

"Biodiesel maybe the liquid fuel of the future. Hemp is a high yield C-4 photosynthesis plant. Hemp can boast a higher oilseed yield than any of today's oilseed crops (soy, canola or safflower)."


"The following formula for making Hemp Diesel Fuel will work nicely to make small quantities of fuel to run the sound stage at your Hemp Rally this summer. A 4 kilowatt diesel generator uses around one liter an hour .Imagine walking to the microphone and saying, "The sound of my voice is coming to you with the power of Hemp Fuel !". Seeing is believing. I'll drive you around the state capital, Senator, In my Hemp Fuelled Vehicle!"

Heres a recipe for Bio Diesel at home.
http://www.geocities.com/profemery/entertainment/bio-diesel.html

This has happened, the hemp car in my above posts, a converted Mercedes Benz totaly converted to run off this fuel was just in my area while on its 100,000 mile long tour of the United States and Canda. I bet it was in your local area as well, did you hear it on your local news report? It has been done for not alot of money, and is still being done today.

http://www.hempcar.org/indexOLD.html



HEMP IS AN EXCELLENT BIO DIESEL FUEL! USA Oil Barons got it outlawed to protect oil derived synthetics in the 30's. But THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES SHOULD LEGALIZE HEMP for their own advantage

http://belize1.com/BzLibrary/trust512.html

Too tired to type in a search yourself? I did one for your convenience.

Yahoo search

KMS
 
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CaliNorml,

I'm certainly not against Hemp. It's a valuable plant that has been much maligned. And no, my research has not extended specifically to the energy possibilities presented by hemp. I will research it as you suggest, and I must admit that it is possible that hemp could make up for the shortfalls we will be experiencing. I'll let you know what I find.
 
I sure do appreciate the fair trial.

Thanks,

Hemp Hugger KMS
 
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