Wouldn't the unstoppable object simply bounce off the immovable object? By this occurring the immovable object wasn't moved and the unstoppable object never stopped.
Never thought of the unstoppable Object just bouncing of in a different direction. So it needn't stop and the unmoveable needn't move.
Hirnwixerei
All of this however won't happen in reality. Theres no such thing as an unstoppable or immovable object. For example, what would cause an unstoppable object to move to go hit an immovable object?
See, your getting somewhere. If the computer never existed to calculate "3.14", then the state of existence that we live in would never come.
This is because time is progressive, I demonstrated this by saying a digit is calculated a second, giving this progressiveness a value. Since without a beginning means an infinite amount of time, I picked pi. An infinite amount of digits should be calculated if the computer has always existed and calculated 1 digit of pi a second.
PREMISES:
1. time is constant
2. computer exists forever calculating 1 digit of pi a second
3. the computer would have calculated an infinite amount of digits by the time our state of existence has come
the computer would have never started pi by "3.14" or any other defined digit, the computer would have to start at a digit that is infinite because it is undefined. If the computer started at "3.14", then the computer would have a beginning. If the computer did not start at "3.14", then any calculation it makes won't effect our current state of existence. So is it even possible for a computer to exist forever?
If the universe did not begin, this is an actual infinite. Since time is progressive, it is potentially infinite, yet it will never reach an infinite value.
So in conclusion stating that matter existed forever is illogical.
If you say premise 2 or 3 is devoid of logic, then you must conclude that matter had a beginning.
The NeS paradox...
You still have the same contradiction. You are trying to say that the hypothetical computer has existed for an infinite amount of time and that it had a beginning.
That contradiction is what is leading to the paradox.
It is premise 2 that has the contradiction. That is where you are saying that the computer has existed forever and it has a beginning point. That contradiction is the flaw in your logic. That contradiction is what leads to your paradox.
2. Physics.
a. the direct effect that one kind of particle has on another, in particular, in inducing the emission or absorption of one particle by another.
preceding in order of the current present. Each event is the location and direction of every force, atom (and subatomic particles), and energies.
By digressing into the infinite past, there is never a "day one" for said computer to start calculating pi.
The only way for the computer to exist at all is to have always existed, per your "always existed" premise. This means that it would have the complete answer right now, but no matter how hard we tried we could never observe the answer.
The simple fact is that time is progressive, it is going to potential infinity. However, it will never reach actual infinity. Once you know time is progressive then you can conclude that the universe came in to existence at a point of time.
Finally someone understands!
You want us to believe that not only did you intentionally include a contradicting premise, but that because this premise invalidates your argument, this proves that some other unrelated body of scientific theory that you don't agree with is invalid?:rofl
The NeS paradox forever
1. time is constant.
2. The computer existed forever.
3. The computer calculated 1 digit of pi a second.
4. The computer would have calculated an infinite amount of digits by the time our state of existence.
The NeS paradox beginning
1. time is constant.
2. The computer came in to existence at a point of time.
3. The computer calculated 1 digit of pi a second.
4. The computer would have calculated a certain amount of digits by the time our state of existence.
The NeS paradox forever
1. time is constant.
2. The computer existed forever.
3. The computer calculated 1 digit of pi a second.
4. The computer would have calculated an infinite amount of digits by the time our state of existence.
It is not your paradox. It is merely a poorly stated Cosmological Argument.
When did the computer start calculating pi?
The only way for the computer to be calculating pi is for the calculation to have a starting point.
If you want to say that the computer has existed forever (2), and that it has been calculating pi for all of it's existence, then you basic premise falls down. In order to be calculating pi, there had to be a starting point. If there is a starting point, then the calculation has not been going on eternally.
That is the contradiction that leads to your supposed paradox. You are trying to say that the computer has existed forever but you are also trying to simultaneously give it a starting point.
Ok. Always up for a good thought experiment.The NeS paradox...
Step 1 - Assume time is constant.
Step 2 - Assume matter in this universe existed for an infinite amount of time.
Step 3 - Hypothetically assume that a computer that has always existed (and that this computer doesn't use power, change form, change shape, give off heat, never crashes, etc) calculated one more digit of pi every second.
Step 4 - Hypothetically assume today and we go check what the last digit of pi that the computer calculated.
Ohhh. Nope. Infinite means it can never be fully calculated. This is the definition of infinity. The computer will continue to calculate digits of pi forever.If the computer has existed forever, then pi would have been calculated since an infinite number of digits would be calculated.
As it would be had it existed forever.If the computer has not existed forever, then it would still be calculating pi.
Infinity divided by infinity undefined. If you add every odd number together, and then divide that by every other even, that's dividing infinity by infinity. Neither has a limit, thus anyone who has taken calculus 101 knows there is no answer.Pick what you logically think is correct then answer below.
At what time would the computer stop calculating pi?
Neither.Would it be a finite or infinite number of years ago?
Correct. What is with all your premises above where you said exactly the opposite?Conclusion: If the computer has calculated pi an infinite number of years ago, then it could calculate pi an infinite number of times. Which isn't possible since pi is infinitely long.
Now we're back to the point that you cannot fully calculate it.Pi would first have to be fully calculated before pi can be calculated again.
Sure we could. In fact at whatever point in time we exist in we could see the current digit if your computer existed.The main point being that we could never see what digit of pi the computer is on because the current state of time we go do that would never come.
This is a non-sequitur. Even if I grant you your mind bafflingly silly premises your conclusion doesn't logically follow.Now apply this concept to matter in the universe existing for an infinite amount of time without being created. A computer that existed for an infinite amount of time calculating pi shows us that this isn't possible.
Ok. Always up for a good thought experiment.
Ohhh. Nope. Infinite means it can never be fully calculated. This is the definition of infinity. The computer will continue to calculate digits of pi forever.
As it would be had it existed forever.
Infinity divided by infinity undefined. If you add every odd number together, and then divide that by every other even, that's dividing infinity by infinity. Neither has a limit, thus anyone who has taken calculus 101 knows there is no answer.
Neither.
This is a non-sequitur. Even if I grant you your mind bafflingly silly premises your conclusion doesn't logically follow.
Ohhh. Nope. Infinite means it can never be fully calculated. This is the definition of infinity. The computer will continue to calculate digits of pi forever.
Thus x = 0.9999...
10x = 9.9999...
10x - x = 9.9999... - 0.9999...
9x = 9
x = 1
So if a computer can't do any thing or exist without a starting point, why do you insist matter can do something without a starting point?
You say a computer can't calculate pi without a starting point,
yet how can matter interact forever without a starting point?
Non-sequitur again. You have no logical reason to believe this.Then if it continued to calculate digits of pi forever our state of existence would never come.
Good point...Looks like god can't exist seeings how god is the ultimate infinity.I'm just going to reply with this again and again. If the computer never calculated "3.14", then it never even started to calculate pi. How could the computer be calculating pi if it has never even started calculating it?
Well that's because you've chosen an infinite series with a more or less arbitrary starting point. I could do the same with every number after 57. Looks like you've figured out why your thought experiment fails huh?The computer never calculated an infinite digits of pi actually. The computer did not calculate "3.141" and "3.1415" and so on. If it calculated "3.141" then you would know the computer started 4 seconds earlier. If it calculated "3.1415" then you would know the computer started 5 seconds earlier and so on.
Again, you've defined it this way. It doesn't fail if you choose a series integers - positive or negative.This means that any number that spits out of the computer is based on a finite amount of digits and thus has had a creation point.
Pi isn't a calculated value. It's just a relation between two lengths. The digits have always been there and will always be there. Your confused in thinking the computer is calculating something that in reality is already there. The computer is doing nothing but telling us about how things already are.Since each number relies on what digit of pi is being calculated, we can now conclude that if the digit that the computer is calculating is undefined, then the product calculated from the digit is also undefined.
All of this matters since of course, matter today at present interacts. If matter existed forever then, it would have to interact forever. If has interacted at any defined time period, then there is a cause for its spontaneous interaction and or creation. If matter today interacts from the cause of matter interacting forever, then the interaction of matter today would be undefined, just as the digit being calculated for pi would be undefined. Its not possible.
Every digit must have a finite amount of digits? What does that even mean?Every new digit that the computer calculates from pi must have a finite amount of digits. You can't calculate from an undefined number of digits.
I'm not saying that it can't exist without a starting point. I'm saying that if it is calculating pi, that calculation has to have a starting point.
If you are saying that the computer has been calculating pi for all of it's existence, then you are saying that the computer had to have a beginning because it is doing something that requires a starting point.
Exactly, the calculation of pi requires a starting point.
I have no logical problem with the eternal computer.
Nobody says that it doesn't.
All the matter in the current state of the unverse had a starting point in the Big Bang.
There's your starting interaction point.
To apply your analogy, that is when the computer started calculating pi.
Well that's because you've chosen an infinite series with a more or less arbitrary starting point. I could do the same with every number after 57. Looks like you've figured out why your thought experiment fails huh?
Every digit must have a finite amount of digits? What does that even mean?
No. You're wrong. You're confused about what infinity is. By the way,Actually your wrong, since the computer would have calculated an infinite amount of digits. Pi would have been calculated.
Math Forum: Ask Dr. Math FAQ: 0.9999... = 1
This makes no sense. What math have you taken?Let each digit of pi be represented by a digit of "9" added after the decimal point.
Let each digit calculated by the computer be represented by a digit of "9" added after the decimal point.
computer calculating digits = 0.9999... (infinite amount of 9's.)
pi = 0.9999...(infinite amount of 9's.)
No, the pi you defined to be 1 equals one. The real pi does not. This is idiotic.Both equal 1, which means the computer has calculated pi.
I'm just going to reply with this again and again. If the computer never calculated "3.14", then it never even started to calculate pi. How could the computer be calculating pi if it has never even started calculating it?
The computer never calculated an infinite digits of pi actually. The computer did not calculate "3.141" and "3.1415" and so on. If it calculated "3.141" then you would know the computer started 4 seconds earlier. If it calculated "3.1415" then you would know the computer started 5 seconds earlier and so on.
Time behaves quite differently 1) when you approach the speed of light, and 2)Near the boarders of the time-space continuum.And what caused the big bang? An interaction? How can your state of existence come when time is progressive? Time is just like pi, it can be represented by a series and set of numbers.
Then apply this with the interworkings of a "God" who starts the interactions.How about this -- If interaction had no beginning, then interaction never started. Interaction today would be based off of undefined interaction.
See my reply above.Now think about my thought experiment.
If you thought carefully, the computer never even started to calculate digits of pi. Yet it completed an infinite amount of digits. And the computer never calculated a digit. If it calculated a digit, it would be a finite amount of digits away from "3.14" and would have a beginning. Since all natural numbers are finite.
If you're talking to me, I saw it.I must've edited the post while you were replying.
No. You're wrong. You're confused about what infinity is. By the way,
lim x->0 (x+1)^(1/x) = 1^infinity=e
Limits cause things to do screwy things.
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This makes no sense. What math have you taken?
No, the pi you defined to be 1 equals one. The real pi does not. This is idiotic.
So you've taken pi, and made it not pi, and then expect me to believe that now you've proven pi=1. I'm getting dumber having this conversation.No, I made pi and the amount of digits the computer calculated represent another digit of "9' after the decimal point!
0.999... (an infinite amount of 9's) = 1, do you agree?
So, if i made the amount of digits that the computer has calculated represent - 0.999...
And made the amount of digits that pi represents - 0.999....
0.999... = 0.999...
LEARN TO SPELL YOU'RE.1=1
0=0
both are equal so your wrong
Time is nothing besides a set of relations between events. You cannot have events without time, and cannot have time without events.Such as time, time has no limit yet there will never be a time when there is an undefined amount of years from any event.
That you have no idea what you're talking about? Way ahead of you.Rofl, Lets just assume...
Yes, I can define variables as well. Now we're not talking about pi or a computer, we're talking about letters placed together as a variable. Your ramblings are getting asinine.pi = 3.141...<-------THIS PI
Let [0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8] = 9
pi = 9.999...<------Does NOT equal this pi except that the combination of the letters p and i are being used as a variable which you are now defining.
Now lets shift that decimal 1 over
pi = 0.999...
Lets assume that for every digit that the computer would supposedly calculate as another 9 added after the decimal
computer = 0.999...
pi = 0.999...
0.999... = 1
1=1
pi = computer
And what caused the big bang?
An interaction? How can your state of existence come when time is progressive? Time is just like pi, it can be represented by a series and set of numbers.
I don't know. Nobody does. It's very possible that we never will. It may not be possible for us to ever know about anything prior to the Big Bang.
However, that really has nothing to do with your restatement of the Cosmological Argument.
There's your contradiction again.
You are trying to say that time cannot be eternal because you are trying to define it to have a begining.
You are saying that it is just like pi. Pi has a begining. Therefore, you are defining time to have a begining.
Then you try to use that premise to prove itself.
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