Multiple victims in Michigan church shooting; church on fire, police say

[Integrityrespec]

Ok.

It doesn’t matter what you are cool with. You don’t get a day. The right to keep and bear arms, is a right. Not subject to your feelings.

Demonstrably false, as guns are less accessible today than they were just a few decades ago.

Lol

Gun access really isn't the problem. 83 million people legally own a gun, and millions more live in a house where there is a legal gun but they do not own it. The overwhelming majority have never committed a crime. The problem is criminals with guns. Illegal guns and criminals with any gun is a problem. The left can't seem to blame the real problem or the actual offenders. Bad people will use a gun, a knife, an automobile, they'll find a weapon. So the bad people need to be locked up when they commit crimes and make sure it's a meaningful penalty.

 

[trixare4kids]

Everything humans do is cultural / societal. It's not profound and it's not meaningful. Lmk when you have a solution for this "culture". Until them

If this was a suicide by cop, we need to do a better job of serving those who would do harm to themselves and take others with them. If this guy was a veteran and genuinely had PTSD, maybe we're not doing enough to address mental illness. Of course, in many of these cases, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it. Maybe he didn't know he was nuts? See something, say something? From what I read, he left a wife and a young son behind. Were there red flags, and if so, how come he still had a gun in a state that has laws that may have prevented this? So, sorry to disagree but prevention of gun tragedies does take a societal interest. https://legalclarity.org/michigans-red-flag-law-criteria-process-and-penalties/

I'm going to try to further minimize kids & parishoners being gunned down in cold blood.

How will you do that?

Lastly, it was reported in an earlier press conference, that he had PSTD and clearly demonstrated by his own acts he was mentally incompetent, so why was he able to keep a firearm?

 

[Ahlevah]

View attachment 67591664

That occurred the morning after leftists attacked the White House, injuring more than fifty Uniformed Secret Service officers, and set fire to the nursery of St. John’s Episcopal Church. More leftist hate. But, yeah, Trump should probably read The Holy Bible. It would undoubtedly be easier if he held it right side up.

 

[L88]

Spitballing here... Kirk killer is mormon... just saying.

Yeah could be. There was a lot of Mormon hate spread when Romney was running but that's been awhile. Lots a hate out there regardless.

 

[reflechissez]

Integrityrespec said:
Any way you look at it, the U.S.A. is the best place to live any where on this planet.

You have no standing to tell any American citizen what is or is not the best place to live.

Did you think critically about what you're saying? I don't think so.

 

[Phys251]

Jesus. Can't get through one week day without a mass shooting in America.

And we've likely got arson in this case, too.

 

[Ƶ∅𝒹i͎αꞓ]

We’re all sinners hopefully striving to be better human beings. I don’t do it because I’m hoping for anything in return. I do it because I want to do what is right, 90% of which is simply to follow the Golden Rule. But when it comes to the Final Judgement, there’s really only one opinion that matters.

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 7:36-50 - International Standard Version

Jesus Forgives a Sinful Woman - Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to eat with him. So he went to the Pharisee’s home and took his place at the table. There was a woman who was a notorious sinner in that city. When she learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s home, she took an...

www.biblegateway.com

I don't really know how else to love without it being non transactional. But I wasn't always like this. I'd do such actions to use my tears and hair and lips to clean someone's feet if it meant I received the gift of being able to do so to someone that honorable for nothing but respect for doing it.

Kind of the missing component. People demanding submission without respect for the trust in such actions in someone choosing that level of humility. We started expecting it without earning it in a lot of ways

 

[ajn678]

Another MAGA freak exercising his 2nd Amendment rights. This was a Mormon church so I doubt MAGA will even be disappointed at this.

 

[reflechissez]

Public message board. Don't like strong rebuttals, don't post juvenile ad hom nonsense.

 

[L88]

I would, too. I've been to Houston. On the Gulf of Mexico. If I want oil refineries, I'll move to Martinez. Or LA.

Monaco looks beautiful. I love F1. The Grand Prix would be exciting.

I wonder if it's possible for a upper middle class person to attend F1 at Monaco. I'd sure love to.

 

[Taylor]

Did you think critically about what you're saying? I don't think so.

Did you?

 

[L88]

Another MAGA freak exercising his 2nd Amendment rights. This was a Mormon church so I doubt MAGA will even be disappointed at this.

What the **** is wrong with you?

 

[reflechissez]

And to you that's 'ad hom'.
America has become the kind of country where you can be fired for expressing social or political opinions that the President doesn't approve of. Where the President says he hates those who oppose him. America has become the kind of country where armed military patrol the streets and squads of armed, masked agents go into schools to arrest kids. America is the kind of country where, I've been told, people have to be armed to protect themselves from each other.
And you think it's the best place in the world to live? Well, I disagree.
And yes, I have the right to disagree, even though you, from your American point of view, say I haven't.

Magats are always telling people what opinions they're allowed to have.

 

[reflechissez]

You think that because you don't know what 'ad hom' means

She frequently misuses it.

 

[JMB1911A1]

You're asserting guns were more easily available in the eighties?

When did background checks become required?

Let me give you a clue. Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. Effective 1994.

So, in the eighties, no background checks and guns were more easily available. Until 1986, you could by a brand new machine gun over the counter.

You shouldn't have been so disingenuous in your personalizing this, as I could now do the same in response to your error; but I'll politely refrain.

 

[Parker_Chess]

I blame Trump for all of this

 

[SCrider]

This more your style, Chomsky?

Yes, both are true.

 

[reflechissez]

So no real specifics? You said: “Tell that to everyone that brings up the fact that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican”
Whom is this you speak of whom brought up Abraham was a Republican? Post number would be helpful.

https://www.wm.edu/as/wcc/newresources/handouts/who-vs-whom.pdf

You'll thank me later.

 

[stevecanuck]

Magats are always telling people what opinions they're allowed to have.

Really? Try standing next to a leftist and referring to a transgendered 'woman' as "he".

 

[trixare4kids]

Did you think critically about what you're saying? I don't think so.

Oh, good grief. He's an anonymous poster on the internet. Neither his post nor yours make a difference in the world.

 

[weaver2]

Obama years IRS targeted conservatives
Biden silencing conservatives/covid/freedom of speech
both of them along with Democrats spewing hate towards conservatives for years - and Hillary and many others.

Hillary's comment about a "basket of deplorables" doesn't even begin to come close to what anti-abortion organizations and people were saying publicly about women or the ugly racist things Rush Limbaugh said about Obama and Democrats or Fox News commentators like Ann Coulter is saying about liberals or independent speakers like Kirk said about minorities.

The Obama years did not target conservatives. The IRS started warning all 501(c)(3) organizations (liberal and conservative) that if they did not comply with the rules they could lose their tax exempt status. There were conservative organizations that refused to obey the rules. They claimed that their actions were educational and therefor not subject to the rules. Some took the IRS to court and lost. Liberal organizations that were out of compliance changed their their status to political organizations and were in compliance. Why do you think the out of compliance liberal organization had to follow the regulations bu conservative organization didn't ?


The Biden administration did not prohibit conservatives from speaking out against the covid regulations and no conservatives lost their right to freedom of speech. The wearing of masks was not a state or federal regulation except for health providers and health related corporations and institutions. Most of the compulsory mask regulations came from commercial corporations like the airlines, chain stores and hotels and work sites
However, Rush Limbaugh was and Fox News still is constantly reporting that the government unfairly targets conservatives and takes away their freedoms.

 

[RF667799]

I doubt we're going to resolve our difference in understanding by simply eliciting our anecdotal personal experience.

In the eighties, our handguns were banned! We had to get them grandfathered-in, subject to annual renewals. If you missed a renewal, you gun was now contraband and subject to confiscation.

Prior to '68 there was next to no federal regulations. Back then, if you didn't have a store near you, you sent your money to Sears - they sent you your gun. It was that simple.

No FFL's, no background checks, nothing. From the warehouse to you, cash on the barrel. Total freedom.

In '68, everything changed. And it got worse year by year, 'till the very recent decades, with Heller & McDonald finally opening-up the floodgates, but still falling shy of the pre '68 unregulated era.

That's my personal take on it, for better or worse.

Handguns were banned in the 80s? Perhaps you're referring to a local ordinance.

Criminal background checks were required starting in 1994.

 

[trixare4kids]

I agree with Grand Mal here. And since I am an American, that legitimizes everything he has said.

Your point is moot unless you're ALL Americans.

 

[RF667799]

I figured that pic was AI. How was the truck not burned up?

But it being a Chevy Silverado tracks.

Tracks with what?

 

[RF667799]

If you were not living back then, you really don't have much for a frame of reference.
So you can run around bleating IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT all you like, and sound ignorant all you like.
I was alive, I purchased my first gun at age nineteen, I LEARNED to shoot when I was fourteen.
I was taught lessons about guns back then that you would have no comprehension of unless you lived back then.

IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT IRRELEVANT keep barking.

Da hell?

What exactly are you disagreeing with that has you so worked up?