Mr Volodomyr Goes to Washington, Is He Gonna Behave This Time?

[gbg3]

So it includes what you said it did not.

Incorrect. I clearly said this - "It barely managed to cover what it should have stuck to, which is covering how many European leaders, and which ones will be in DC for the meeting tomorrow.", referring to the single important sentence from the WaPo piece, the one you quoted in comment 46.

 

[MAGAnificent]

.


The Duce will be in the White House come Monday. Again as a supplicant. Again as a Supremo with no cards. Same as back in February 28th, 2025 when he strut arrogantly into the Oval Office; and feeling very entitled, proceeded to insult President Trump and the American Republic. It took the combined efforts of Trump and Vance to throw him out of the White House. The lunch prepared for him and his entourage was handed to the journalists present. Still the Duce remained unrepentant and unapologetic. Querried on the matter, in an interview he granted to, I believe foxnews, the Green Goblin characterised his insults as speaking frankly. Adding that partners must speak frankly to each other. Basically telling the American public he would stick it to them again if need be.

Are we gonna see a more contrite Volodomyr this time? Is he gonna behave as befits a supplicant? Does he understand that it is the misfortune of any supplicant that a supplicant is never right?

The Duce's situation is not an easy one. He is at present in the grip of a bear, which bear threatens to devour him piece by piece. The only power on earth that can remotely pry him loose from the claws of this bear happens to be the United States; but thanks in part to the insolence and ingratitude of the Duce, this power is increasingly inclined to abandoning poor Zelensky to the tender mercies of the bear! It sucks!

But there is a glimmer of hope for the Duce if only he can bring himself to play the part of a supplicant like his life depended on it. He has to be contrite, repentant. He has to grovel. Shower the American President with accolades. Tell him he has earned the Nobel Prize like no other human before. Promise to lobby Europeans hard to award Trump a Nobel Prize for this year, next year, the year after, and for his last year in office. Show contritution for whatever he did, or failed to do in the run up to the 2016 elections which impacted negatively the election of Trump. Show contritution for whatever he did, of failed to do that may have fired up Russian hoax...

What other advice for poor Zelensky on this trip?



https://thehill.com/policy/internat...olodymyr-zelensky-meeting-after-putin-summit/

Perhaps he will wear a suit and tie this time in place of that worn turtleneck tee shirt.

 

[gbg3]

Zelenskyy has led his country for over 3 years of resistance against the invasion of a much larger, stronger neighbour. He has shown a degree of leadership that neither Trump nor Vance could even describe.
When Zelenskyy, Trump and Vance are in a room together, guess which of them has earned the respect of the others.

Ukrainians have been fighting valiantly. No disagreement from me about that.

 

[gbg3]

Perhaps he will wear a suit and tie this time in place of that worn turtleneck tee shirt.

I think that would be a good choice on his part. I expect that is how nearly every leader will be dressed, and it would be stupid and childish for him to choose to deliberately stand out as dressed more casually than the rest.

 

[MAGAnificent]

He behaved last time. Trump and Vance acted like assholes.

Referring to the Vice President as "JD" in a diplomatic setting is not good behavior. The reality is that up until Trump kicked him out of the White House that day, he was just roaming from leader to leader demanding more weapons. He even pissed off Dopey Joe Biden. I am cautiously optimistic that his behavior will be much improved on Monday.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I have a feeling this won't go well at all. Trump wants Zelenzky to give into Putin's demands and he isn't going to do that.

You do not even know what Putin's demands are or what Putin and Trump agreed to. I doubt that anyone in this forum is silly enough to think that Ukraine is going to regain all Russian occupied territory in a peace agreement unless NATO enters into the war, or that Ukraine will toss out the Russians in a continued war. Even Zelensky has reportedly come to that conclusion. His goals for now are ending the war with security guarantees with the hope of ultimately regaining territory diplomatically. The fact that Zelensky has talked with Trump since the Alaska summit and is coming to the White House tomorrow backs that up.

 

[CaughtInThe]

.


The Duce will be in the White House come Monday. Again as a supplicant. Again as a Supremo with no cards. Same as back in February 28th, 2025 when he strut arrogantly into the Oval Office; and feeling very entitled, proceeded to insult President Trump and the American Republic. It took the combined efforts of Trump and Vance to throw him out of the White House. The lunch prepared for him and his entourage was handed to the journalists present. Still the Duce remained unrepentant and unapologetic. Querried on the matter, in an interview he granted to, I believe foxnews, the Green Goblin characterised his insults as speaking frankly. Adding that partners must speak frankly to each other. Basically telling the American public he would stick it to them again if need be.

Are we gonna see a more contrite Volodomyr this time? Is he gonna behave as befits a supplicant? Does he understand that it is the misfortune of any supplicant that a supplicant is never right?

The Duce's situation is not an easy one. He is at present in the grip of a bear, which bear threatens to devour him piece by piece. The only power on earth that can remotely pry him loose from the claws of this bear happens to be the United States; but thanks in part to the insolence and ingratitude of the Duce, this power is increasingly inclined to abandoning poor Zelensky to the tender mercies of the bear! It sucks!

But there is a glimmer of hope for the Duce if only he can bring himself to play the part of a supplicant like his life depended on it. He has to be contrite, repentant. He has to grovel. Shower the American President with accolades. Tell him he has earned the Nobel Prize like no other human before. Promise to lobby Europeans hard to award Trump a Nobel Prize for this year, next year, the year after, and for his last year in office. Show contritution for whatever he did, or failed to do in the run up to the 2016 elections which impacted negatively the election of Trump. Show contritution for whatever he did, of failed to do that may have fired up Russian hoax...

What other advice for poor Zelensky on this trip?



https://thehill.com/policy/internat...olodymyr-zelensky-meeting-after-putin-summit/

Here's some of the things that your boy has done on purpose...

 

[Callen]

I think that would be a good choice on his part. I expect that is how nearly every leader will be dressed, and it would be stupid and childish for him to choose to deliberately stand out as dressed more casually than the rest.

My Lord!!! it isn't about dressing casually! He is a leader at war in a country devastated by that war. He has worn these clothes since the onset and he won't change until it is over. Zelenskyy is anything but stupid or childish! It will be childish of Trump to even give a thought to what he is wearing much less say something.

 

[gbg3]

Referring to the Vice President as "JD" in a diplomatic setting is not good behavior. The reality is that up until Trump kicked him out of the White House that day, he was just roaming from leader to leader demanding more weapons. He even pissed off Dopey Joe Biden. I am cautiously optimistic that his behavior will be much improved on Monday.

I'm hopeful that European leaders have had some kind but frank talks with Z about what they will/can or won't/can't provide to Ukraine, going forth. Just as everyone has pointed out from the beginning, a potential agreement ultimately comes down to - if an agreement can be reached between Z and Putin. Trump can do his best to mediate should the 2 men at war want that (and I think both might want that) and Europe can give provide Z with support, advice and encouragement. Europe can also choose to mediate and facilitate if they'd like to try or if they think they will have success in that role. But it's the two countries at war who will finally reach a deal if there is a deal to be reached.

Again, I'm hopeful Europe has been very frank with Z about what their contributions to a potential continuation of war or to a peace deal, would be. It is important Z is very clear as to what cards he does or doesn't have beyond the equipment, strength, and money he has access to within his country and within his control. Others that he may rely on or call upon for help need to be honest and frank with Z - about both what they will and won't be willing to provide and for how long. For Z to have his best chance at success, he needs to be armed with the information he needs to face Putin with eyes wide open in terms of his options.

 

[gbg3]

You do not even know what Putin's demands are or what Putin and Trump agreed to. I doubt that anyone in this forum is silly enough to think that Ukraine is going to regain all Russian occupied territory in a peace agreement unless NATO enters into the war, or that Ukraine will toss out the Russians in a continued war. Even Zelensky has reportedly come to that conclusion. His goals for now are ending the war with security guarantees with the hope of ultimately regaining territory diplomatically. The fact that Zelensky has talked with Trump since the Alaska summit and is coming to the White House tomorrow backs that up.

I absolutely agree with the sentence you typed, and I bolded. It is totally silly at this point to think any agreement will be reached if Ukraine includes regaining all Russian occupied territory as a stipulation. I think they should try to negotiate a counter proposal to what Russia wants in terms of land, but there is no chance they will regain all the Russian occupied territory in a peace deal.

I agree that Z very likely understands that. So does Europe, IMO.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I'm hopeful that European leaders have had some kind but frank talks with Z about what they will/can or won't/can't provide to Ukraine, going forth. Just as everyone has pointed out from the beginning, a potential agreement ultimately comes down to - if an agreement can be reached between Z and Putin. Trump can do his best to mediate should the 2 men at war want that (and I think both might want that) and Europe can give provide Z with support, advice and encouragement. Europe can also choose to mediate and facilitate if they'd like to try or if they think they will have success in that role. But it's the two countries at war who will finally reach a deal if there is a deal to be reached.

Again, I'm hopeful Europe has been very frank with Z about what their contributions to a potential continuation of war or to a peace deal, would be. It is important Z is very clear as to what cards he does or doesn't have beyond the equipment, strength, and money he has access to within his country and within his control. Others that he may rely on or call upon for help need to be honest and frank with Z - about both what they will and won't be willing to provide and for how long. For Z to have his best chance at success, he needs to be armed with the information he needs to face Putin with eyes wide open in terms of his options.

Agreed. I do not see any winners in this war. Putin lose because the world now knows that the Russian bear is not as tough militarily as everyone including the US thought they were. And he now has two more NATO nations on his borders. His dreams of a reconstituted USSR are dead. And Ukraine is not going to regain all of its territory unless NATO enters the battle. It's time to end it with security guarantees that there will be no further encroachment of Ukraine territory and leave the rest to world pressure and diplomacy.

 

[BabaVoss]

He behaved last time. Trump and Vance acted like assholes.

^^^THIS^^^

 

[ElChupacabra]

Srsly mate if it wasn't for the woke dei rainbow inclusivity initiative mandating me to have on a forum I participate in at least one 'person self-identifying as suit of armour' you would so be on Ignore with your posts of toxic muddle-headed frippery.
'

 

[ElChupacabra]

You do not even know what Putin's demands are or what Putin and Trump agreed to. I doubt that anyone in this forum is silly enough to think that Ukraine is going to regain all Russian occupied territory in a peace agreement unless NATO enters into the war, or that Ukraine will toss out the Russians in a continued war. Even Zelensky has reportedly come to that conclusion.

Did they agree to anything regarding the conflict? It would be odd if they did and didn't announce it during the press conference, since it would have spared them the negative press. It's not clear what Zelenskyy will do regarding territory since their Constitution prevents that, so this would have to be done legislatively first before an agreement is reached. Of course Russia's taking the piss by asking for areas they don't even control in Donetsk.

His goals for now are ending the war with security guarantees with the hope of ultimately regaining territory diplomatically. The fact that Zelensky has talked with Trump since the Alaska summit and is coming to the White House tomorrow backs that up.

Defining this will be critical because any guarantees with nothing to back them up are worthless given Putin's track record.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Defining this will be critical because any guarantees with nothing to back them up are worthless given Putin's track record.

Let's wait and see what the security guarantees will be comprised of before making judgements. Keep in mind that European representation will be at the meeting as well.

 

[gbg3]

I think this Face the Nation interview with Rubio is worth a listen. What Rubio has to say is very reasonable, logical and unemotional. He didn't waste time with any attempted gotcha diversions and instead just painted a realistic picture of the current situation.

Rubio says "both sides are going to have to make concessions" to end war in Ukraine

Secretary of State Marco Rubio said "both sides are going to have to make concessions" to end Russia's war in Ukraine.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[MAGAnificent]

I think this Face the Nation interview with Rubio is worth a listen. What Rubio has to say is very reasonable, logical and unemotional. He didn't waste time with any attempted gotcha diversions and instead just painted a realistic picture of the current situation.

Rubio says "both sides are going to have to make concessions" to end war in Ukraine

Secretary of State Marco Rubio said "both sides are going to have to make concessions" to end Russia's war in Ukraine.

www.cbsnews.com

I did not care for the younger GWB era version of Rubio; however, I think he is now well seasoned in world affairs and makes an excellent secretary of state.

 

[Callen]

I think this Face the Nation interview with Rubio is worth a listen. What Rubio has to say is very reasonable, logical and unemotional. He didn't waste time with any attempted gotcha diversions and instead just painted a realistic picture of the current situation.

Rubio says "both sides are going to have to make concessions" to end war in Ukraine

Secretary of State Marco Rubio said "both sides are going to have to make concessions" to end Russia's war in Ukraine.

www.cbsnews.com

He sure has come full circle on his feelings about Putin. Oh well, I guess ambition trumps conscience... no pun intended.

 

[ElChupacabra]

He sure has come full circle on his feelings about Putin. Oh well, I guess ambition trumps conscience... no pun intended.

The interesting thing is Putin's been a constant, everyone else not so much. Rubio seems more like Trump in his flexibility on what the US position is now and what will be as it relates to Russia. If Russia gets to keep the current borders, then it has won the war of attrition, and this will be the template for future exercises in expansion of influence.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Perhaps he will wear a suit and tie this time in place of that worn turtleneck tee shirt.

That anyone cares about sartorial choices in this kind of scenario is pretty laughable, especially given Trump's poor showing in how to wear a tie properly. Zelenskyy looked sharper in his outfit than Trump did with his absurdly long tie if that's the focus.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Let's wait and see what the security guarantees will be comprised of before making judgements. Keep in mind that European representation will be at the meeting as well.

Sure, but we can predict some thing based on current actions and rhetoric from this administration, no?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Sure, but we can predict some thing based on current actions and rhetoric from this administration, no?

Thats your problem. You are far too obsessed with Trump to make an objective argument. The Alaska summit was just to see if an agreement was possible. Zelensky will have to whatever is proposed or offer a counter proposal. Europe and the US will be at the meeting to cover security guarantees that Zelensky will demand.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I think that would be a good choice on his part. I expect that is how nearly every leader will be dressed, and it would be stupid and childish for him to choose to deliberately stand out as dressed more casually than the rest.

President Zelenskyy is a wartime president.

Trump and Vance need a visual reminder.

 

[MAGAnificent]

President Zelenskyy is a wartime president.

Trump and Vance need a visual reminder.

They actually get a reasonably good view through satellite intelligence. That's why they want the war to end.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Thats your problem. You are far too obsessed with Trump to make an objective argument. The Alaska summit was just to see if an agreement was possible. Zelensky will have to whatever is proposed or offer a counter proposal. Europe and the US will be at the meeting to cover security guarantees that Zelensky will demand.

Had this administration chosen to bow out of this situation entirely, your post would make sense. However, since it is involved in this conflict and recently set up a summit with just the Russian leader and the US president, then not so much. Whether or not a summit was warranted is open to debate, since it was called with Russia not being asked to bring anything new to the table.