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Most conservative males keep reposting nonsense they know is not true about abortion.

That's no longer the world we live in. Besides that, such problems were still be resolved by "at fault" divorce. Also, men such as neighbors and male relatives protected women. But hey, it's the way you like it now. Just don't complain when men go "Jimmy Buffett" on you. Why sacrifice for a nagging woman, when a man can just chill by the beach and work part time?

I guarantee at that time the women were not protected as a rule. A male neighbor harboring a female neighbor for protection? Seriously? And it is a bit more complicated than that - there were likely kids to worry about. Women at the time were just as likely to take the abuse and excuse it away if she thought the kids were not his focus.
 
So who says all human life is has a right to life? Who says the unborn have a right to life? What authority? We already know that our laws and Const do not support that.

We kill legally with justification all the time: self-defense, war, death penalty, pulling the plug, assisted suicide, etc. And abortion is also justifiable. Does everyone beliefs that killing in war, the DP, assisted suicide, are 'right?' Nope, but we have laws that recognize those justifications and people's rights and that overrides their personal beliefs.

And still you cannot refute a single thing I've argued :doh

And you think I should be embarrassed? Jeebus you've been wringing your hands all over this sub-forum with nary an argument to be supported. Just "your feelings" and emotional manipulation about babies. :roll:
Thats your tactic then?

Like I said...whatever helps you rationalize your embrace of the grotesque and inhuman.....
 
I would think that if my posts were irrelevant you would stop replying to them.
You still miss the point. They are irrelevant to the conversation. But since you apparently lack the capacity to understand why........


as you wish.
 
"Harboring" isn't how it was done. A man would do something like grab the wife beater by the collar and take him up the stairs or on a roof and say "tell me why I shouldn't throw you off this roof/stairs". That often took care of it.

I guarantee at that time the women were not protected as a rule. A male neighbor harboring a female neighbor for protection? Seriously? And it is a bit more complicated than that - there were likely kids to worry about. Women at the time were just as likely to take the abuse and excuse it away if she thought the kids were not his focus.
 
"Harboring" isn't how it was done. A man would do something like grab the wife beater by the collar and take him up the stairs or on a roof and say "tell me why I shouldn't throw you off this roof/stairs". That often took care of it.

Or it would just escalate things and the police would call it a "family matter".
 
I'm not a victim at least in the household. I mitigated every risk and didn't get hit. Some luck was involved too.

You certainly come across as one...and project that onto all other men.

And still you avoid answering a direct question and just defend yourself.

Please, try again:

Being the breadwinner should be in and of itself be worthy of serious consideration. The specific thing that ended it for men is "No fault" divorce. Men in MGTOW say don't try it at all. I say it can work if a man is willing to consider extreme measures and know that the wolf is always at the door. In today's world women are not expected to earn respect, their idea is to get it for free.

And so should caring for a household and children. Just as important, right?

And the rest of your ideas are just butthurt resentment. A supposedly adult male asserting he is entitled to respect...playing the victim. :roll:
 
Thats your tactic then?

Like I said...whatever helps you rationalize your embrace of the grotesque and inhuman.....

Having a solid argument that you cannot in any way refute? It's not a tactic...it's apparently reality.

Again, you have been completely incapable of actually arguing...anything...just emoting all over the place and attempting to judge me. Which is laughable.
 
Having a solid argument that you cannot in any way refute? It's not a tactic...it's apparently reality.

Again, you have been completely incapable of actually arguing...anything...just emoting all over the place and attempting to judge me. Which is laughable.
refute that

Most conservative males keep reposting nonsense they know is not true about abortion.

It doesnt matter when you kill the baby...you still advocate for the slaughter of 8090,000 unborn babies in the US alone every year. That grotesque reality necessitates dehumanizing unborn babies. I only hope it actually works for you.
 
refute that

Most conservative males keep reposting nonsense they know is not true about abortion.

It doesnt matter when you kill the baby...you still advocate for the slaughter of 8090,000 unborn babies in the US alone every year. That grotesque reality necessitates dehumanizing unborn babies. I only hope it actually works for you.

And still...you just post emotional drivel and cant even articulate an argument. :doh

And still you cannot refute a single thing I've argued :doh

And you think I should be embarrassed? Jeebus you've been wringing your hands all over this sub-forum with nary an argument to be supported. Just "your feelings" and emotional manipulation about babies. :roll:

Again, you have been completely incapable of actually arguing...anything...just emoting all over the place and attempting to judge me. Which is laughable.
Instead of trying to bludgeon us with your feelings and emotional manipulation, the discussion requires...discussion. Can you defend your feelings with facts, legal support, any articulation at all?

The opinion and value you place on those scientific and biological realities arent what matter, except to you. Science and biology apply no value, value is subjective. Who says those things mean pregnancy can be morally forced on women? Not the law, not the Constitution, not morality in general.

Born and unborn cannot be treated equally under the law. If you see a way that they can, please explain (using a legal foundation).

I value the unborn, but I value all born people more. To prioritize the bodily sovereignty and self-determination of the unborn over women's is unconscionable IMO. Why is the unborn more deserving of that bodily sovereignty and self-determination than women?
You still have articulated no argument beyond your feelings. You demonstrate nowhere why I'm even morally wrong. No one ever said that people that want a baby dont value their unborn. Or grieve for it when it's lost. You obviously dont even grasp the issue :roll:. So let's just stick with this:

I'm here to discuss...my questions are in blue. Any reason you dont have answers?
 
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Why do conservative males, when talking about abortion, continue to post stuff that simply isn't true, quote known liars, perpetrate old wives nonsense about women and refuse to believe any of the legal, scientific facts or studies about women and abortion?

What is it about the topic of abortion to causes intelligent males to become mental and moral midgets?

If it takes longer than what can fit on a bumper-sticker or as a tag-line or headline....then no one on the right will take the time to understand the underlying issues and facts. Compound that with an active desire to be willfully ignorant on the subject and there you go.

Look, when you feel threatened by facts and cogent debate, the best remedy is to enclose yourself in an echo-chamber and wallow in ignorance. The very last thing a conservative male can handle is when they know the facts are right and their beliefs are wrong. They just can't do it.

It reminds me of the final portion of the debate between Hamm and the Bill Nye....the question was, if there is evidence that proves you wrong will you accept it. Nye's response was, that as a scientist, he would have to acknowledge the new data, test it and if it proves his theories wrong, well, then his theories have to change to reflect the new data. Hamm said no. That the Bible tells him all he needs to know...proving that not only would he not change...but that he wouldn't even consider the data.

When it comes to abortion, that is what you are dealing with. Men who only want to hear what they believe and are willfully ignorant...and proud of it.
 
That's no longer the world we live in. Besides that, such problems were still be resolved by "at fault" divorce. Also, men such as neighbors and male relatives protected women. But hey, it's the way you like it now. Just don't complain when men go "Jimmy Buffett" on you. Why sacrifice for a nagging woman, when a man can just chill by the beach and work part time?

Well it's generally not put that bluntly and candidly.
 
refute that

Most conservative males keep reposting nonsense they know is not true about abortion.

It doesnt matter when you kill the baby...you still advocate for the slaughter of 8090,000 unborn babies in the US alone every year. That grotesque reality necessitates dehumanizing unborn babies. I only hope it actually works for you.

You have a answer looking for someone's question.This thread is seeking an answer to why conservative anti-abrotion males, repost outright lies about abortion that they have been told many times are lies, yet they don't stop posting them. Why do you do that???
 
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And why do you get to decide what a woman does or doesn't do with her pregnancy on the basis of your whim of your anti-abortion belief?
Because I do not hold that the unborn are just property, but are entitled to certain inalienable rights, among those are life.
Anybody that doesn't understand the difference between a born human being that's been enslaved and a fetus doesn't have the right to comment on either slavery or abortion.
If you know the difference, then tell me. Thing is......I don't think you truly know, because you've been told you're entire life that the reason slavery is wrong is because it's the current year. I do know there is an argument you could use to get out of this logical impasse, but I want to see if you're smart enough to use it.
 
It's not a person with rights, that we do know. So yes, she gets to decide.

And various courts have indeed examined and decided that. It's also examined and specified in the RvW decision.

It's also law:

An argument from legality does not satisfy an argument from philosophy. I realize there is such a thing as RvW. I know. I never argued otherwise. From a point of a morality, from a point of philosophy, your statement of the current status quo(which is all it is) does nothing to justify the status quo, much less justify your belief. You won at the courts. I get it. You can settle down now, or address my post directly, at the very least.
 
There are currently over 100,000 kids available for adoption in the US (not foster care, that # is 400,000). And you think it's a good idea to encourage women to have more unwanted, unplanned kids? For each new baby added to that enormous pool, it means another child goes without a family. It's actually cruel to those waiting, hoping, aware.

and death is less cruel?

I realize there are problems with our adoption system. I know MANY families who can't have children and they adopt outside the US, because state standards are impossibly strict. I do not see this as a reason to abort a child in the womb. Rather, it means we have to go through the hard work of updating our adoption laws, and provide welfare to both families and children. Liberals always say conservatives don't care about children after they're born, yet, why is it me that proposes far more money and reform to our foster care, and not you? I have never seen a democrat candidate propose sweeping legislation on our obviously broken adoption laws(as any family who has gone through it will tell you), and yet, it's me, a pro-life conservative, that doesn't care about children?

Then again, maybe you don't think such a thing, yet the memes persist.
 
So who says all human life is has a right to life? Who says the unborn have a right to life? What authority? We already know that our laws and Const do not support that.

We kill legally with justification all the time: self-defense, war, death penalty, pulling the plug, assisted suicide, etc. And abortion is also justifiable. Does everyone beliefs that killing in war, the DP, assisted suicide, are 'right?' Nope, but we have laws that recognize those justifications and people's rights and that overrides their personal beliefs.

And still you cannot refute a single thing I've argued :doh

And you think I should be embarrassed? Jeebus you've been wringing your hands all over this sub-forum with nary an argument to be supported. Just "your feelings" and emotional manipulation about babies. :roll:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the fact that you think someone should have to justify their existence before their life is considered worthy. Sorry, not the way it works. If you're advocating for someone to be killed it's on you to make the argument that they're not worthy of human life, not on us to argue that they are.

It's innocent until proven guilty.
 
Most people who are pro-choice do consider to be the owners of their pregnancy. It's a woman's property and you don't get to tell her that even though she has determined she cannot be an adequate mother she has to carry the pregnancy to term.
So the difference between being property, and not being property, is a couple of months, and a few inches of (painful, granted) movement?

I say that doesn't hold. If an unborn child can be considered a woman's property, then what reason is there that a 1 year old born child isn't considered merely a woman's property?
Until you get pregnant and experience what 9 months of pregnancy, birthing and 4 to 12 months of lactation does physically and mentally to you, you don't get to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term just to satisfy your beliefs.
I would never force a woman to consent to becoming pregnant.
 
Why do conservative males, when talking about abortion, continue to post stuff that simply isn't true, quote known liars, perpetrate old wives nonsense about women and refuse to believe any of the legal, scientific facts or studies about women and abortion?

What is it about the topic of abortion to causes intelligent males to become mental and moral midgets?

From the deluded mind of the abortionist supporter: 'Unborn babies are not human. Unborn babies have no rights. Unborn babies do not feel pain. Showing images of aborted babies is a crime and should result in imprisonment. Abortionists do not sell baby parts. Unborn babies are an unlimited valuable source of possible medical value.' And so forth.
 
From the deluded mind of the abortionist supporter: 'Unborn babies are not human. Unborn babies have no rights. Unborn babies do not feel pain. Showing images of aborted babies is a crime and should result in imprisonment. Abortionists do not sell baby parts. Unborn babies are an unlimited valuable source of possible medical value.' And so forth.

LOL If you're trying to make a case that pro-choice advocates repost lies you've failed. Almost all of the things you are calling lies are not. Two items I've never seen posted before from either a pro-choice or anti-abortion poster.
 
So the difference between being property, and not being property, is a couple of months, and a few inches of (painful, granted) movement?

I say that doesn't hold. If an unborn child can be considered a woman's property, then what reason is there that a 1 year old born child isn't considered merely a woman's property?

I would never force a woman to consent to becoming pregnant.


If you are working to get the government to pass laws banning abortion or overturning Roe v Wade you are working for forced pregnancy.
 
If you are working to get the government to pass laws banning abortion or overturning Roe v Wade you are working for forced pregnancy.

That does not follow, for many reasons. The most consequential being that I never argued that a woman should go and have sex. That's how one gets pregnant. If you don't have sex, then regulations on abortions do not affect you in any sense.

Overturning RvW does NOT ban abortion. All that does is return the decision to the states, where, I believe, it belongs. How does that FORCE pregnancy? Even some pro-choicers have argued overturning, or at least rewritting, the Roe decision; one of those people being Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I'm sure you've heard of her? is she forcing women to be pregnant to do so?

And who is arguing to ban abortion outright? The most strictest evangelist I've ever seen, the kind to raise fire and brimstone in speeches, Jerry Falwell, has argued that even in abortion, there are understandable exceptions. Abortion, like any other regulation, has exceptions for extreme cases. I do not think it's necessary, for example, to FORCE pregnancy on a woman who is bound to die from it. Even in the western world, birthing mortality rates are still a thing. So while you COULD argue that, by banning abortion, I want to force pregnancy(which is still wrong for other reasons), I'm not arguing to ban abortion. I want it regulated, in the same way the UK, or Poland, regulates it, and who will call them pro-life countries?

The main question for you, then, is why haven't you answered my question and why propose such an inane argument? Abortions, like nearly every controversial topic, includes a lot of gray. It's not entirely black and white, and yet, it's a I, a self-proclaimed pro-lifer, who has to remind you of this. It is you, and not I, who takes the position that just because someone disagrees with Roe, that doesn't mean they want to "force a pregnancy", as if they're some rapist, nor does that mean much for their actual position on abortion, for which there is a wide range of opinion.
 
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That does not follow, for many reasons. The most consequential being that I never argued that a woman should go and have sex. That's how one gets pregnant. If you don't have sex, then regulations on abortions do not affect you in any sense.

Overturning RvW does NOT ban abortion. All that does is return the decision to the states, where, I believe, it belongs. How does that FORCE pregnancy? Even some pro-choicers have argued overturning, or at least rewritting, the Roe decision; one of those people being Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I'm sure you've heard of her? is she forcing women to be pregnant to do so?

And who is arguing to ban abortion outright? The most strictest evangelist I've ever seen, the kind to raise fire and brimstone in speeches, Jerry Falwell, has argued that even in abortion, there are understandable exceptions. Abortion, like any other regulation, has exceptions for extreme cases. I do not think it's necessary, for example, to FORCE pregnancy on a woman who is bound to die from it. Even in the western world, birthing mortality rates are still a thing. So while you COULD argue that, by banning abortion, I want to force pregnancy(which is still wrong for other reasons), I'm not arguing to ban abortion. I want it regulated, in the same way the UK, or Poland, regulates it, and who will call them pro-life countries?

The main question for you, then, is why haven't you answered my question and why propose such an inane argument? Abortions, like nearly every controversial topic, includes a lot of gray. It's not entirely black and white, and yet, it's a I, a self-proclaimed pro-lifer, who has to remind you of this. It is you, and not I, who takes the position that just because someone disagrees with Roe, that doesn't mean they want to "force a pregnancy", as if they're some rapist, nor does that mean much for their actual position on abortion, for which there is a wide range of opinion.

Ah, another well reasoned argument. :roll:

"If people didn't have sex...."

:doh
 
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the fact that you think someone should have to justify their existence before their life is considered worthy. Sorry, not the way it works. If you're advocating for someone to be killed it's on you to make the argument that they're not worthy of human life, not on us to argue that they are.

It's innocent until proven guilty.

Someone should at least be born before their rights supersede those of a born person. No?


Ah, I get it. It's just a woman.
 
I reckon you arent surprised because you are still laboring under the delusion that your comments were in any way relevant. they werent. Sad part is, you dont appear to be able to understand how or why.

I "reckon" an unborn thing is more important to some people than an actual woman. I get that.
 
Ah, another well reasoned argument. :roll:

"If people didn't have sex...."

:doh

you're going to have to have a better rebuttal. How does a woman who's never had sex, get an abortion?
 
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