More shitty cops

[Bodi]

It

Never


****ing


Ends


.

 

[Gozaburo]

It

Never


****ing


Ends

What never ends?

 

[CLAX1911]

What never ends?

Cop looking for a fight. If it's Sergeant hadn't been there what would have happened? If somebody in this position tells a police officer to back off they need to back off.

There's no law against walking around wearing a mask and taking pictures.

 

[Gozaburo]

Cop looking for a fight. If it's Sergeant hadn't been there what would have happened? If somebody in this position tells a police officer to back off they need to back off.

There's no law against walking around wearing a mask and taking pictures.

Ah. I wasn't aware there was an epidemic of this, which isn't the same thing as understanding that some cops are pigheaded Rambo LARPers.

On a given day I'm far more likely to be accosted by vagrant disorder and urban decay than I am to be accosted by some cop with a power complex.

And I understand what people might say: cops, as function of the institution of policing, are obligated to serve, which is not the case for the average citizen population in a city.

And I think this kind of thinking is precisely the problem.

 

[CLAX1911]

Ah. I wasn't aware there was an epidemic of this,

There's plenty of videos on the internet of cops acting like idiots.

which isn't the same thing as understanding that some cops are pigheaded Rambo LARPers.

If you ever come across one and have the displeasure of interacting with one of these police you'll understand this very well and there doesn't have to be an epidemic of it one in a thousand is too many.

On a given day I'm far more likely to be accosted by vagrant disorder and urban decay than I am to be accosted by some cop with a power complex.

That's true.

And I understand what people might say: cops, as function of the institution of policing, are obligated to serve, which is not the case for the average citizen population in a city.

No I wouldn't really say that I've never held the position that you're more likely to have an unpleasant running with the cops than you are with any random person. I've interacted with plenty and I've never had this problem.

And I think this kind of thinking is precisely the problem.

Well cops like burkhart here erode public trust in police and that's a lot more important than public trust in your local vagrants. I would say this sort of thing is a much bigger problem. If you want to be a police officer you can't let yourself be provoked by this crap. Let them cuse let them flip you off let them call you a pig there's no law against pissing off the police.

 

[Gozaburo]

Well cops like burkhart here erode public trust in police and that's a lot more important than public trust in your local vagrants. I would say this sort of thing is a much bigger problem. If you want to be a police officer you can't let yourself be provoked by this crap. Let them cuse let them flip you off let them call you a pig there's no law against pissing off the police.

Here's my broader point: it's very vogue (if correct in a narrow sense) to call some cops power tripping pigs. Whether they erode public trust more than petty crime, violent crime, vagrancy, loiterers, etc. is a hotly contested debate that really only has one correct answer.

What isn't very vogue is being critical of a general classlessness and moral laze which infects all of society, but particularly the lower and middle classes. Wearing pajamas and a stained graphic T-shirt to Walmart isn't illegal, but it is uncultured and offensive to the soul.

There is a direct correlation between the popularity of bluntly critiquing order & the slow degeneration of the social fabric into a standard-less, disgusting consensus.

 

[CLAX1911]

Here's my broader point: it's very vogue (if correct in a narrow sense) to call some cops power tripping pigs.

Yeah and a lot of times it's overly dramatic. This case however it wasn't. People being unfair to certain police does not give other police the power to abuse the authority.

Whether they erode public trust more than petty crime, violent crime, vagrancy, loiterers, etc. is a hotly contested debate that really only has one correct answer.

The fact that there are criminals that need to be dealt with by the police is not an excuse for the police to act like this.

What isn't very vogue is being critical of a general classlessness and moral laze which infects all of society, but particularly the lower and middle classes. Wearing pajamas and a stained graphic T-shirt to Walmart isn't illegal, but it is uncultured and offensive to the soul.

I'm not defending anything here.

There is a direct correlation between the popularity of bluntly critiquing order & the slow degeneration of the social fabric into a standard-less, disgusting consensus.

I'm critiquing the degeneration. When you put on the uniform you are held to a higher standard.

 

[Gozaburo]

Yeah and a lot of times it's overly dramatic. This case however it wasn't. People being unfair to certain police does not give other police the power to abuse the authority.

I'm not making that argument.

The fact that there are criminals that need to be dealt with by the police is not an excuse for the police to act like s**

Who's arguing for the right of police to behave crudely or sadistically? Not I.

 

[CLAX1911]

I'm not making that argument.



Who's arguing for the right of police to behave crudely or sadistically? Not I.

Then what point are you making of course considering the video of the op?

 

[Gozaburo]

I'm critiquing the degeneration. When you put on the uniform you are held to a higher standard.

I suppose this is a relevant critique if you think that in the hierarchy of trends causing damage to the social fabric, a handful of cops acting like douchebags is anywhere near the top.

Then what point are you making of course considering the video of the op?

I thought it was pretty obvious. It's easy, even popular to be hyper critical of policing. It's less popular to talk about the general degeneration of the social order and why that might be a more serious issue than a handful of douchebags.

Maybe this is purely a regional issue and anecdotal for me, but has anyone's community become cleaner and more cohesive over the last 20 - 30 years? The entire American economy is basically built upon building fortresses to isolate yourself from the degenerating social fabric and criminality. This is not a phenomenon which has an exact parallel in other advanced nations.

Admittedly, this might be the wrong thread for what I'm describing since it has nothing to do with the video and more to do with the sentiment of the OP which seems to imply exhaustion for an issue which doesn't impact the average citizen in a country they don't even live in.

 

[CLAX1911]

I suppose this is a relevant critique if you think that in the hierarchy of trends causing damage to the social fabric, a handful of cops acting like douchebags is anywhere near the top.

They do more damage to the police in one incident like this than a thousand people screaming that they're pigs. This kind of thing means that sometimes they're right.

I view this as a pro police viewpoint.

I thought it was pretty obvious. It's easy, even popular to be hyper critical of policing.

Well I'm not being hypercritical of policing so I don't know why you're making this point.

It's less popular to talk about the general degeneration of the social order and why that might be a more serious issue than a handful of douchebags.

You can talk about both at the same time.

Maybe this is purely a regional issue and anecdotal for me, but has anyone's community become cleaner and more cohesive over the last 20 - 30 years? The entire American economy is basically built upon building fortresses to isolate yourself from the degenerating social fabric and criminality. This is not a phenomenon which has an exact parallel in other advanced nations.

So we shouldn't say anything when cops have the wrong attitude for the job because?

Admittedly, this might be the wrong thread for what I'm describing since it has nothing to do with the video and more to do with the sentiment of the OP which seems to imply exhaustion for an issue which doesn't impact the average citizen in a country they don't even live in.

A broken clock is right twice a day. You can't oppose the critique just because of the person making it. Base it on the behavior of the officer and you will be a lot more consistent.

 

[Gozaburo]

They do more damage to the police in one incident like this than a thousand people screaming that they're pigs. This kind of thing means that sometimes they're right.

I view this as a pro police viewpoint.

The social fabric isn't 'the police'.

Well I'm not being hypercritical of policing so I don't know why you're making this point.

You replied to me originally. I didn't call you out.

You can talk about both at the same time.

A novel concept!

So we shouldn't say anything when cops have the wrong attitude for the job because?

Strawman.

A broken clock is right twice a day. You can't oppose the critique just because of the person making it. Base it on the behavior of the officer and you will be a lot more consistent.

I supposed you'd have a point here if I haven't already conceded multiple times that the officer wasn't acting professionally. Sort of ironic that you'll say 'you can talk about both at the same time', but when I make a broader point about the discourse on this subject you insist on getting defensive.

 

[CLAX1911]

The social fabric isn't 'the police'.

The social fabric depends on the police

You replied to me originally. I didn't call you out.

With regard to the critique

A novel concept!

No just being able to think about multiple subjects

Strawman.

It was a question?

Should we not critique police when they are in the wrong?

I supposed you'd have a point here if I haven't already conceded multiple times that the officer wasn't acting professionally.

I don't engage in discussion to get people to concede or to win at some debate game. It's just to talk to people. To find someone who thinks about things differently than I do

Sort of ironic that you'll say 'you can talk about both at the same time', but when I make a broader point about the discourse on this subject you insist on getting defensive.

I'm not sure what your broader point has to do with this subject? The police do get a lot of criticism I agree with that a lot of the times it's unwarranted.

 

[Gozaburo]

The social fabric depends on the police

The social fabric depends on people. If people behave inline with the cultural consensus, the police have no job to do.

It was a question?

Should we not critique police when they are in the wrong?

It was a strawman because I never made this claim:

So we shouldn't say anything when cops have the wrong attitude for the job

I don't engage in discussion to get people to concede or to win at some debate game. It's just to talk to people. To find someone who thinks about things differently than I do

If this is the case and you agree that we can simultaneously have a critique of the police while also addressing a more general degeneration of quality and texture of life, then I don't see where the disagreement is.

I'm not sure what your broader point has to do with this subject? The police do get a lot of criticism I agree with that a lot of the times it's unwarranted.

I'm calling the OPs sentiment trite. It's not a serious or novel take. It's uninteresting. I'm interested in opinions which challenge the assumed zeitgeist, not noise commentary about conclusions everyone else has already made.

 

[CLAX1911]

The social fabric depends on people. If people behave inline with the cultural consensus, the police have no job to do.

True but I would say it's their presence mostly that keeps most people behaving at least in an acceptable way.

It was a strawman because I never made this claim:

I didn't see you made a claim I asked you a question.

The way I see it I'm not arguing with you. So I have no reason to make a straw man.

If this is the case and you agree that we can simultaneously have a critique of the police while also addressing a more general degeneration of quality and texture of life, then I don't see where the disagreement is.

I didn't respond to disagree.

I'm calling the OPs sentiment trite.

I would say it's hyperbolic.

It's not a serious or novel take. It's uninteresting. I'm interested in opinions which challenge the assumed zeitgeist, not noise commentary about conclusions everyone else has already made.

Why don't you start at that thread I would be interested in reading it and responding. This thread is a critique on police I'll be at a hyperbolic one.

 

[Rogue Valley]

There is an arrest in the US every 2.5 seconds. Let that sink in.

 

[Allan]

There is an arrest in the US every 2.5 seconds. Let that sink in.

1 in 3 American adults have a criminal record. Let that sink in.

 

[aociswundumho]

On a given day I'm far more likely to be accosted by vagrant disorder and urban decay than I am to be accosted by some cop with a power complex.

The difference is in most states you can defend yourself against criminals, however nowhere can you legally defend yourself against some low IQ douche bag wearing a blue costume.

And I understand what people might say: cops, as function of the institution of policing, are obligated to serve, which is not the case for the average citizen population in a city.

Nobody believes that. The supremes have held repeatedly that cops have no obligation to protect you or your property. When you're on the road, nobody feels safer when they are being followed by some dumb pig.

And I think this kind of thinking is precisely the problem.

 

[Maidenrules29]

Bodi, how many different anti-cop threads have you created? LOL. Do you have one for "Here are some good cops"?

 

[Helix]

This person is being stupid. Provoked cops are sharks, and you're chum. Make it a goal to never have to interact with an on duty cop unless absolutely necessary ever again. Stay in the middle of the school, and don't attract attention. Use that strategy with other drivers, as well.

 

[Gozaburo]

The difference is in most states you can defend yourself against criminals, however nowhere can you legally defend yourself against some low IQ douche bag wearing a blue costume.

I don't really subscribe to the idea that the only way society is negatively influenced is if someone physically accosts you.

Nobody believes that. The supremes have held repeatedly that cops have no obligation to protect you or your property. When you're on the road, nobody feels safer when they are being followed by some dumb pig.

I'm more irritated by the Nissan Altima's driving 105 in the left lane than I am about some fat dude eating donuts speed checking people.

 

[aociswundumho]

I don't really subscribe to the idea that the only way society is negatively influenced is if someone physically accosts you.

Again, it's not the attack, it's the fact that it is illegal to fight back, and the attacker knows this and uses it to his advantage.

I'm more irritated by the Nissan Altima's driving 105 in the left lane than I am about some fat dude eating donuts speed checking people.

One of the highest obesity rates for any profession. Average salary is about 70k per year, and it takes virtually no intellectual ability and not much in the way of physical capability. That should tell you something about the job.

 

[Gozaburo]

Again, it's not the attack, it's the fact that it is illegal to fight back, and the attacker knows this and uses it to his advantage.

Sure and it's gross but I don't really see this as being an epidemic. It's maybe a problem in low income neighborhoods and for your occasional pretentious bystander, but heinous offenses seem pretty rare to me.

One of the highest obesity rates for any profession. Average salary is about 70k per year, and it takes virtually no intellectual ability and not much in the way of physical capability. That should tell you something about the job.

In their defense, I worked in the service industry as a teenager. If I had to be responsible for 'handling' the disorderly public instead of just calling the handlers, I'd think I deserve a bit more money than some service 'worker' too.

It's actually a good parallel. Like I said: there are shitty cops - no doubt - but if you've worked in the service industry before you sometimes question whether or not a police state would just be better.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

It

Never


****ing


Ends


.

While not excusing this officer’s behavior, as someone whose actually performed this service for his community for 25 years in a densely populated urban city I politely request you do the same before feeling so free to comment.

EVERYONE can have a bad day. LEO’s too. Then you add folks who are, mind you purposefully for what they pretend is for civil compliance issues but how do we know that is the case, actively seeking to get directly in the face of law enforcers and push buttons.

How well would you tolerate it on any given day? You can guess but you can’t actually say, you’ve never been tested. I have. I learned early on that some of these people have agendas that aren’t always on the up and up. They are trolling. I also learned the best way to handle it is not to give them what they want, so I. “Yes Sir and No Sir and Thank You Sir.” (it’s never women) until a line I can document satisfactorily is crossed that is a legitimate violation of the law (and they are dealing with an enforcer well versed in the law in my case) and then it’s a desk appearance ticket and a day in court for them, and I’ve never lost one of these (not that I had that many). If that line doesn’t get crossed, then I bid them a good day. They have a right to a certain amount of civilian oversight. Just please don’t make me unsafe or violate obstruction of justice law in the doing of it.

I carried a mini-cassette recorder then a digital one and a tiny lavaliere microphone clipped to my shirt long before body cams were the thing. I frequently recorded my interactions with the public to protect my six. I like people, proud of the fact that after 25 years of doing law enforcement I still like folks, but I don’t trust them. So any time the situation was it might be my word against someone else’s I had it all recorded. [it is my good fortune that I practiced my profession in a one party consent state.]

So you do it for as long as you might (there is a reason one out of three folks quit this job even with today’s pay and benefits within the first five years), see if you get to a pension, lose some body functionality because of it and not get around so well, then not get paid what you were promised because the state says they can’t afford to honor their contractual word to you and suspends the promised COLA for 14 years and counting.

You wanna talk about it never f###ing ends? I get shafted the first of every month.

I’m not saying there are no bad cops, of course there are. I’d bet though its no worse then the percentage of bad actors in general and even that it’s probably, by percentage, a bit better than the general population average.

I’m saying practice a little Golden Rule Ethical Thinking and cut the average Joe just trying to do his job the same slack you’d ask for yourself under like circumstances. I did with folks when I was doing this for a living, and it’s all I ever asked of anyone in return (not that I expected it though).

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I suppose this is a relevant critique if you think that in the hierarchy of trends causing damage to the social fabric, a handful of cops acting like douchebags is anywhere near the top.



I thought it was pretty obvious. It's easy, even popular to be hyper critical of policing. It's less popular to talk about the general degeneration of the social order and why that might be a more serious issue than a handful of douchebags.

Maybe this is purely a regional issue and anecdotal for me, but has anyone's community become cleaner and more cohesive over the last 20 - 30 years? The entire American economy is basically built upon building fortresses to isolate yourself from the degenerating social fabric and criminality. This is not a phenomenon which has an exact parallel in other advanced nations.

Admittedly, this might be the wrong thread for what I'm describing since it has nothing to do with the video and more to do with the sentiment of the OP which seems to imply exhaustion for an issue which doesn't impact the average citizen in a country they don't even live in.

I’ve been staring for ages that we are exhibiting trends from our past history; political, economic and SOCIAL/CULTURAL that led us to some bad places 100 years ago.

The foolishness of this is we do it expecting different results than the last time around.

Comes under the heading of . “Stupid human tricks.”