More progressive news from the Islamic world

[Wiggen]

While we wait the hundred lashes and the execution of the woman in Sudan for marrying a Christian and refusing to renounce her faith, we have this uplifting story from Pakistan:

Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

I await the usual stories from the defenders of radical Islam pointing out the Christians that have been sentenced to death for marrying a non-Christian or the examples of pregnant women in the west stoned to death for marrying somebody Daddy didn't like.

 

[Grand Mal]

While we wait the hundred lashes and the execution of the woman in Sudan for marrying a Christian and refusing to renounce her faith, we have this uplifting story from Pakistan:

Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

I await the usual stories from the defenders of radical Islam pointing out the Christians that have been sentenced to death for marrying a non-Christian or the examples of pregnant women in the west stoned to death for marrying somebody Daddy didn't like.

Did you pack a lunch and bring something to read?

 

[Wiggen]

Did you pack a lunch and bring something to read?

That might be dangerous if somebody was to do it in Sudan. Or Pakistan. Can't have any of that subversive literature regarding freedom and justice floating around where the mullahs might see it. I suppose I would be OK if I brought my copy of Sharia Law to brush up on.

 

[TheNextEra]

While we wait the hundred lashes and the execution of the woman in Sudan for marrying a Christian and refusing to renounce her faith, we have this uplifting story from Pakistan:

Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by family

I await the usual stories from the defenders of radical Islam pointing out the Christians that have been sentenced to death for marrying a non-Christian or the examples of pregnant women in the west stoned to death for marrying somebody Daddy didn't like.

Noone here defednds RADICAL Islam, only the idiotic notion that the religion is to blame for the violence. The radicals are to blame for the violence.

 

[Wiggen]

Noone here defednds RADICAL Islam, only the idiotic notion that the religion is to blame for the violence. The radicals are to blame for the violence.

Except in this case the religion is specifically to blame for at least the case of the woman in Sudan. It is a country governed by Sharia Law. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Except in this case the religion is specifically to blame for at least the case of the woman in Sudan. It is a country governed by Sharia Law. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand?

Sharia Law is an extreme faction of Islam, and is anathema to regular Muslims. Just as extreme views of extreme right so called Christian's views (using the Old Testament as their rule book) are anathema to most Christians that follow Christ's teachings.

Sharia Law and Islamist beliefs are not a religion, but a cult type bastardization of a peaceful religion, just as those of Westboro Baptist Church are to the Christian religion.

We can read any of the books that the major religious are based upon and find horrific things professed that could fall within your description in OP.

All that said, this is genocide, justified by religious fanatics, and should be opposed and fought if our country is to stand for anything in this world.

 

[Paschendale]

Noone here defednds RADICAL Islam, only the idiotic notion that the religion is to blame for the violence. The radicals are to blame for the violence.

That's complete nonsense. Of course the religion is to blame. This murder was over religious differences and nothing else. Religious terrorists kill because they think that there's a god who actually wants them to do that. Religious extremists, of every religion, brutalize women because they think that their gods made women their slaves. Religious extremists in this country murder gays because they think that their's a god who wants them to do that. If adhering to the fundamentals of your religion means violence and brutality, then there is something wrong with the fundamentals of your religion. And wouldn't you know, the fundamentals of every religion drive people to violence and brutality. The fundamental ideas of religion are to blame.

 

[shavingcollywob]

Noone here defednds RADICAL Islam, only the idiotic notion that the religion is to blame for the violence. The radicals are to blame for the violence.

Is there actually non-radical Islam though?

Personally I think they should be able to live their lives anyway they choose without having to worry about if the Western World agrees with them but these stories are so widespread and often times state sanctioned that I think it's fair to acknowledge that this actually is how they want to live their lives. Even Bill Mayer often cites surveys about "radicalism" among British Muslims and those are Westernized people. It seems to me those who condemn this sort of behavior are the outliers among Islam.

 

[shavingcollywob]

Sharia Law is an extreme faction of Islam, and is anathema to regular Muslims. Just as extreme views of extreme right so called Christian's views (using the Old Testament as their rule book) are anathema to most Christians that follow Christ's teachings.

Sharia Law and Islamist beliefs are not a religion, but a cult type bastardization of a peaceful religion, just as those of Westboro Baptist Church are to the Christian religion.

We can read any of the books that the major religious are based upon and find horrific things professed that could fall within your description in OP.

All that said, this is genocide, justified by religious fanatics, and should be opposed and fought if our country is to stand for anything in this world.

I don't know how good of a comparison that really is.

Virtually everyone, including virtually all Christians, hates the Westboro Baptist Church. I've honestly never heard anyone agree with them and their practices. Sharia Law is so accepted that it's actual law in many areas and there seems to be fairly large support for it to be law in areas where it's not official law.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I don't know how good of a comparison that really is.

Virtually everyone, including virtually all Christians, hates the Westboro Baptist Church. I've honestly never heard anyone agree with them and their practices. Sharia Law is so accepted that it's actual law in many areas and there seems to be fairly large support for it to be law in areas where it's not official law.

I agree that it wasn't a good analogy. Yet, the philosophical reasoning behind my point is still valid.

To me, it's an exercise in defining extremes or lack of variations. For the extremists of any religion, there are no variations, just strict interpretation, without debate or discussion. This is true for any religion that holds to evangelical or what some would call orthodox or theocratical views, exclusively.

 

[shavingcollywob]

I agree that it wasn't a good analogy. Yet, the philosophical reasoning behind my point is still valid.

To me, it's an exercise in defining extremes or lack of variations. For the extremists of any religion, there are no variations, just strict interpretation, without debate or discussion. This is true for any religion that holds to evangelical or what some would call orthodox or theocratical views, exclusively.

I'm not sure how it's even remotely valid.

The deviant behavior found in the Westboro Baptist group is very far from any acceptable Christian practices whereas Sharia Law is widely accepted. Stonings, bombings, etc. aren't part of an "extremist" branch of Islam. It's pretty much just Islam.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I'm not sure how it's even remotely valid.

The deviant behavior found in the Westboro Baptist group is very far from any acceptable Christian practices whereas Sharia Law is widely accepted. Stonings, bombings, etc. aren't part of an "extremist" branch of Islam. It's pretty much just Islam.

That's why I was referring to the Muslim Religion, and not Islam which is the extremist view. Two distinctively different things. As for extreme right Christian believers, they may not stone people, even though it's in the Bible, they do use their beliefs to deny others equal rights and to protest against those they don't like. I see it in my very own church almost every week. And, that IS what can be called an "acceptable Christian practice" especially when it comes to gay people.

Look, I've served in many a theater where Islam was the norm. I've also made friends in those areas with Muslims that are not Islamist. True, Islam has taken hold in many areas of the world, and is a real threat to world peace.

I was only making a point that extremism is bad no matter where it originates. (I've already conceded my using the WBC was a bad example)

 

[ecofarm]

Of course the religion is to blame.

Blaming inanimate objects is patented nonsense.

 

[shavingcollywob]

That's why I was referring to the Muslim Religion, and not Islam which is the extremist view. Two distinctively different things. As for extreme right Christian believers, they may not stone people, even though it's in the Bible, they do use their beliefs to deny others equal rights and to protest against those they don't like. I see it in my very own church almost every week. And, that IS what can be called an "acceptable Christian practice" especially when it comes to gay people.

Look, I've served in many a theater where Islam was the norm. I've also made friends in those areas with Muslims that are not Islamist. True, Islam has taken hold in many areas of the world, and is a real threat to world peace.

I was only making a point that extremism is bad no matter where it originates. (I've already conceded my using the WBC was a bad example)

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. A Muslim is someone who practices Islam.

Extremism could be bad but in this case we're not talking about "extreme" Muslims. We're just talking about Muslims.

 

[Paschendale]

Blaming inanimate objects is patented nonsense.

Seriously? Ideas aren't to blame for people acting on those ideas? Naziism is fine. It's just those specific Nazis who did bad things. The Aztec beliefs, totally cool. It was just those few bad eggs who cut all those hearts out. Racism is a perfectly legitimate idea. We should celebrate it because people sincerely believe it. Centuries of violence and brutality are just an aberration.

Is this really the point you're trying to make? That is completely insane.

 

[ecofarm]

Seriously?

Seriously. If not religion, something else would be used. Blaming inanimate objects is nonsense; it's dehumanizing.

 

[Paschendale]

Seriously. If not religion, something else would be used. Blaming inanimate objects is nonsense; it's dehumanizing.

So violence, misery, and suffering are inevitable and we shouldn't try to rise above them as a species, but rather just stay how we are. By that same notion, good ideas don't matter either because "something else will be used" to make the world better. Ideas are not inanimate objects. They're opinions held by people. You can't exonerate the idea and just blame the people.

I have no idea why you jump through so many hoops to be an apologist for religion. But that is all you're doing. Also, when did you start not answering the actual content of people's posts? How is religion blameless and Naziism not?

 

[ecofarm]

So violence, misery, and suffering are inevitable and we shouldn't try to rise above them as a species, but rather just stay how we are.

More nonsense, and nothing to do with your blaming inanimate objects.

How is religion blameless and Naziism not?

Naziism is not to blame, Nazis are to blame. Naziism cannot actually do anything, it's an inanimate object.

You've spent your life blaming inanimate objects? No wonder you hate religion so much.

 

[TheNextEra]

Except in this case the religion is specifically to blame for at least the case of the woman in Sudan. It is a country governed by Sharia Law. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand?

No the religion is not to blame, the radicals that misinterpret the Koran are to blame. Much like when Radical Christians have used the bible to say interracial marriage was against the bible.

 

[TheNextEra]

Is there actually non-radical Islam though?

Yes there is. I have neighbors that are followers of Islam. Nice people that live their daily lives like anyone else that don't agree with the so called Jihads declared or honor killings.

It's sad that you lump everyone into radical Islam and shows your ignorance.

 

[Sababa]

Except in this case the religion is specifically to blame for at least the case of the woman in Sudan. It is a country governed by Sharia Law. Why is that so hard for some folks to understand?

Please point out where in Sharia law this is proscribed. Honor killings are not a part of Islam. Pre-Islamic culture had honor killings. Best to say people are using religion to cover their evil

 

[shavingcollywob]

Yes there is. I have neighbors that are followers of Islam. Nice people that live their daily lives like anyone else that don't agree with the so called Jihads declared or honor killings.

It's sad that you lump everyone into radical Islam and shows your ignorance.

I don't lump everyone together but it seems to me that your neighbors are the exception when you look at the general Islamic world.

 

[TheNextEra]

I don't lump everyone together but it seems to me that your neighbors are the exception when you look at the general Islamic world.

The point being that if it were the religion EVERYONE would be a radical. I don't doubt there are a high number of radicals, but that is because of the misinterpretation of the Koran, not the religion. Just like many Christians in the past have done violent things because they misinterpreted the bible doesn't mean it is because of the religion.

 

[shavingcollywob]

The point being that if it were the religion EVERYONE would be a radical. I don't doubt there are a high number of radicals, but that is because of the misinterpretation of the Koran, not the religion. Just like many Christians in the past have done violent things because they misinterpreted the bible doesn't mean it is because of the religion.

I don't understand why EVERYONE needs to be strapping bombs to their chests and flying planes into buildings to acknowledge these are very accepted practices in Islam. These people aren't extremists. They're just Muslims. That's just the Muslim community and it's going to be the Muslim community well into the future.

 

[TheNextEra]

I don't understand why EVERYONE needs to be strapping bombs to their chests and flying planes into buildings to acknowledge these are very accepted practices in Islam. These people aren't extremists. They're just Muslims. That's just the Muslim community and it's going to be the Muslim community well into the future.

Again, if it were the religion EVERY Muslim would think those practices are acceptable. The fact is not every Muslim thinks so, therefore it is not the religion, it is the radicals. Not a hard concept here. Sorry, the fact is not every Muslim is the evil radical you want them to be.