More on Israel (Worse than Hamas) use of AI for genocide

[Craig234]

Israel’s AI Targeting System Reflects the Inhumanity It Was Programmed With

The rise of AI belies the fantasy that we can escape moral culpability by assigning life-or-death decisions to a machine.

www.commondreams.org

 

[Bodi]

More on Israel (Worse than Hamas) use of AI for genocide​

LOL

 

[MamboDervish]

Nobody's hands are clean.

 

[Peacenik]

The AI killer program has been tasked to answer this question: "Where's Daddy?"

The programmers thought it was so 'cute' they named the program the same thing.

The one thing not programmed into the killer system?

Empathy for human life.

It has been deemed OK to kill 20 innocent people in the effort to kill the one person they consider a military target. And they don't even have an assurance they are actually getting the target. The strike proceeds as long as the probability is convincing enough. Sometimes the innocents are killed but the 'target' wasn't home. "Where's Daddy" didn't know the answer. But it killed blindly anyway.

The longer this goes on, the fewer people who can justify supporting Israel. It's reprehensible.

 

[MamboDervish]

The longer this goes on, the fewer people who can justify supporting Israel. It's reprehensible.

War is reprehensible ... but after our own actions in the 20 years following 9/11/01, we have no moral high ground from which to point a finger. None whatsoever.

The events of 9/11 killed 3,000 Americans civilians. The direct result of our invasion, occupation and "nation building" in Iraq has led to the deaths of 300,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, the maiming and disabling of twice that many more, the displacement of a million people, all of that allegedly in retribution for that one unprovoked attack - and it wasn't even Iraq that attacked us! In fact, they had nothing to do with it. Nor were there any stockpiles of WMD threatening the US, our allies, or our interests ... perhaps other than oil interests. The entire world, certainly the entire Arab world, knows this. And all of this doesn't even address the death and destruction that we're responsible for in Afghanistan. Our complete hypocrisy has been painted all across the history of the last 60 years.

After 9/11, nobody continued to attack Americans with rockets on our own soil. Nobody took more than 250 American hostages. In light of our own recent military history, who are we to presume we have the right to tell Israel how to respond to the attack on 10/7 ??

Nobody's hands are clean.

 

[Rumpel]

strange ….

 

[Peacenik]

War is reprehensible ... but after our own actions in the 20 years following 9/11/01, we have no moral high ground from which to point a finger. None whatsoever.

The events of 9/11 killed 3,000 Americans civilians. The direct result of our invasion, occupation and "nation building" in Iraq has led to the deaths of 300,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, the maiming and disabling of twice that many more, the displacement of a million people, all of that allegedly in retribution for that one unprovoked attack - and it wasn't even Iraq that attacked us! In fact, they had nothing to do with it. Nor were there any stockpiles of WMD threatening the US, our allies, or our interests ... perhaps other than oil interests. The entire world, certainly the entire Arab world, knows this. And all of this doesn't even address the death and destruction that we're responsible for in Afghanistan. Our complete hypocrisy has been painted all across the history of the last 60 years.

After 9/11, nobody continued to attack Americans with rockets on our own soil. Nobody took more than 250 American hostages. In light of our own recent military history, who are we to presume we have the right to tell Israel how to respond to the attack on 10/7 ??

Nobody's hands are clean.

Which is why we must strive to be better.

 

[Craig234]

It has been deemed OK to kill 20 innocent people in the effort to kill the one person they consider a military target. And they don't even have an assurance they are actually getting the target. The strike proceeds as long as the probability is convincing enough. Sometimes the innocents are killed but the 'target' wasn't home. "Where's Daddy" didn't know the answer. But it killed blindly anyway.

That's for a bottom level 'said the word Hamas at some point' (I'm being facetious) targets, for a higher level target I forget if it was 100 or 300 civilians killed. 'They don't intentionally target civilians' they lied over and over. I guess they meant it wasn't inetentional, the AI did it.

The longer this goes on, the fewer people who can justify supporting Israel. It's reprehensible.

No one has been able to justify it since it started.

 

[MamboDervish]

Which is why we must strive to be better.

It is among the many reasons.

 

[Craig234]

I wish I could remember where I saw it, but I was recently reading some history about how Nazis took large groups they were targeting, and forced them to lie down, and soldiers were ordered to shoot each person the back of the head, one at a time.

This had a couple problems. One was the 'efficiency' of the method and the other was that it caused serious 'morale problems' for the soldiers doing it, up close murdering civilians like that.

That is what largely led to the changes to new methods - the use of poisonous gas, and the 'industrialization' of the killing in the death camps.

The parallels are pretty obvious to the use of AI to target thousands of locations across all of Gaza, knowingly killing civilians, having a person doing all that targeting. Having an AI do the targeting has parallels to the industrialization of the Holocaust, no one has to personally do that targeting, just do things like drop impersonal bombs from high up.

I've seen bomber pilots discuss how they felt little awareness of the destruction of the bombs they dropped. Millions of Vietnamese were killed, but how many by pilots who did it from planes? And of course, the Israel (Worse than Hamas) media reportedly has almost no coverage of the destruction and suffering they're causing, much as the Nazis kept the death camps quiet.

 

[Peacenik]

That's for a bottom level 'said the word Hamas at some point' (I'm being facetious) targets, for a higher level target I forget if it was 100 or 300 civilians killed. 'They don't intentionally target civilians' they lied over and over. I guess they meant it wasn't inetentional, the AI did it.



No one has been able to justify it since it started.

Unfortunately Israel does have support, which is problematic.

 

[Phys251]

War is reprehensible ... but after our own actions in the 20 years following 9/11/01, we have no moral high ground from which to point a finger. None whatsoever.

Bullshit. We have every right to point fingers at any government who kills innocent civilians. Whether that be ours or Israel's.

 

[MamboDervish]

Bullshit. We have every right to point fingers at any government who kills innocent civilians. Whether that be ours or Israel's.

Point away - as if it will do any good. We have a very long history of propping up governments that kill their own innocent civilians, including with weapons, military training and logistical support.

Ever hear of the School of the Americas? Most Americans are completely ignorant of exactly why there are so many South and Central American refugees seeking asylum at our southern border. Our foreign policy has cultivated them by the thousands for decades, under every pretext from fighting communism to fighting drug traffic, and everything in between. But we look the other way when their corrupt governments turn their sights on their own peasants.

Before we invaded them for the second time, we were the biggest weapons supplier in Iraq, including chemical WMD "to be used in their war against Iran". They were provided more than enough to use on their own population, too. How many innocent Shia and Kurds were slaughtered by Saddam's Baathists before we took him down? Any idea? Roughly 200,000 innocent Shia and over 180,000 innocent Kurds, while we looked the other way and ca$hed in on arms sale$.

You can tell yourself that Palestinians in Gaza is something different, but it certainly isn't. American foreign policy has left hundreds-of-thousands of corpses around the globe during every administration in my lifetime, Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference. When it comes to selling arms, there are no good guys or bad guys in this world - only customers.

 

[venice_ca]

Point away - as if it will do any good. We have a very long history of propping up governments that kill their own innocent civilians, including with weapons, military training and logistical support.

Ever hear of the School of the Americas? Most Americans are completely ignorant of exactly why there are so many South and Central American refugees seeking asylum at our southern border. Our foreign policy has cultivated them by the thousands for decades, under every pretext from fighting communism to fighting drug traffic, and everything in between. But we look the other way when their corrupt governments turn their sights on their own peasants.

Not in Los Angeles — we’re well aware of how and why so many Central American refugees are here. (We have the largest Salvadoran and Guatemalan populations outside of those countries.)

Guatemala’s war against its indigenous population was wrong, and there was much criticism at the time of US support for the repressive death squad government there. El Salvador’s war on campesinos was also wrong, and so was U.S. support for another death squad government.

I feel that it’s my duty to criticize and protest each US blunder in respecting human rights and humanitarian law. If disregard of rights was wrong under Reagan, Bush, etc, it’s still wrong under Biden.

 

[Craig234]

Guatemala’s war against its indigenous population was wrong, and there was much criticism at the time of US support for the repressive death squad government there. El Salvador’s war on campesinos was also wrong, and so was U.S. support for another death squad government.

Can I suggest the following link to enrich the history.

June 27, 1954: Elected Guatemalan Leader Overthrown in CIA-Backed Coup

Democratically elected Guatemalan president Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán was deposed in a CIA-sponsored coup.

www.zinnedproject.org

I feel that it’s my duty to criticize and protest each US blunder in respecting human rights and humanitarian law. If disregard of rights was wrong under Reagan, Bush, etc, it’s still wrong under Biden.

You're right, it is.

This is a challenge for human rights, how to get powerful countries to care about them, both the governments and the citizens. We can make rules but we see how much that can matter in Gaza.

 

[MamboDervish]

Not in Los Angeles — we’re well aware of how and why so many Central American refugees are here. (We have the largest Salvadoran and Guatemalan populations outside of those countries.)

Guatemala’s war against its indigenous population was wrong, and there was much criticism at the time of US support for the repressive death squad government there. El Salvador’s war on campesinos was also wrong, and so was U.S. support for another death squad government.

I feel that it’s my duty to criticize and protest each US blunder in respecting human rights and humanitarian law. If disregard of rights was wrong under Reagan, Bush, etc, it’s still wrong under Biden.

If criticism and protest against "disregard of rights" under Reagan, Bush, etc. had zero effect on US foreign policy - and we certainly all know that it did - then it will have zero effect under Biden. That's my point. It isn't Biden's fault. The problem is systemic.

Just as Washington DC is beset by relentless pressure from the fossil fuel industries, the pharmaceutical industries, etc., it is also under constant pressure from the military industrial complex - or MIC. That MIC empowers and reinforces itself, not only through lobbying and campaign finance efforts, but by placing some element of it's production in every possible state, and every possible district. As such, almost every elected representative in both the House and Senate, is beholden to the MIC for jobs and votes. And that's to say nothing of the actual military bases that also occupy their states. They are under constant pressure to keep the gears of the war machine moving and profitable, and we do that by selling arms abroad to as many nations as possible - no matter how horrific or genocidal their internal politics might be.

We can bitch and moan about which foreign nations get arms contracts with the USA, but unless and until we take the perverse financial incentives out of our politics, it won't have any effect on the outcome.

 

[venice_ca]

If criticism and protest against "disregard of rights" under Reagan, Bush, etc. had zero effect on US foreign policy - and we certainly all know that it did - then it will have zero effect under Biden. That's my point. It isn't Biden's fault. The problem is systemic.

Just as Washington DC is beset by relentless pressure from the fossil fuel industries, the pharmaceutical industries, etc., it is also under constant pressure from the military industrial complex - or MIC. That MIC empowers and reinforces itself, not only through lobbying and campaign finance efforts, but by placing some element of it's production in every possible state, and every possible district. As such, almost every elected representative in both the House and Senate, is beholden to the MIC for jobs and votes. And that's to say nothing of the actual military bases that also occupy their states. They are under constant pressure to keep the gears of the war machine moving and profitable, and we do that by selling arms abroad to as many nations as possible - no matter how horrific or genocidal their internal politics might be.

We can bitch and moan about which foreign nations get arms contracts with the USA, but unless and until we take the perverse financial incentives out of our politics, it won't have any effect on the outcome.

The Boland Amendment blocked funding for the Nicaraguan contras, so there can be political will (on occasion) to stop U.S. military interference in foreign countries. Reagan’s Iran-Contra scandal discredited far right interventionists - if only temporarily.

The Citizens United decision is a curse, and dark money is pernicious in politics. But I still believe that to be silent is to be complicit. Many voices together can influence outcomes, especially locally.

 

[MamboDervish]

The Boland Amendment blocked funding for the Nicaraguan contras, so there can be political will (on occasion) to stop U.S. military interference in foreign countries. Reagan’s Iran-Contra scandal discredited far right interventionists - if only temporarily.

Great example. We all know how easily that was circumvented.

The Citizens United decision is a curse, and dark money is pernicious in politics. But I still believe that to be silent is to be complicit. Many voices together can influence outcomes, especially locally.

Knock yourself out.