More guns = More death?

[Glitch]

Daddy0 wrote: "In reality only areas with high numbers of leftists and guns seem to be the problem."

- then I supplied a list of states with high homicide rates - states, except for Delaware and Maryland, which are controlled by the GOP

For some reason, certain persons responding to my post are apparently unable or incapable of seeing the problem with DaddyO's words.





Are you claiming that there are "areas with high numbers of leftists and guns" in the GOP-controlled states?

Gun ownership in the states named in the earlier post

Mississippi -- 55.8% of adults have guns at home.
Louisiana -- 53.1%
Alabama -- 55.5%
Missouri -- 48.8%
Arkansas -- 57.2%
South Carolina -- 49.4%
Tennessee -- 51.6%
Maryland -- 30.2%

Homicide increase rate in parenthesis followed by gun ownership rate
Montana (+83.8) -- 66.3%
South Dakota (+80.6) -- 55.5%
Delaware (+62.3) -- 34.4%
Kentucky (+61.0) -- 54.6%

It is not really a good comparison unless you take population density into consideration. States like Montana and South Dakota, with very low population densities when compared to the other States are going to have a much more significant change in their statistics.

For example, Alaska had a murder ratio per 100,000 of 5.7 in 2021, and a murder ratio per 100,000 of 9.6 in 2022. That is because the number of murders in Alaska went from 42 in 2021 to 70 by 2022. The smaller the population a State has the bigger the fluctuation from year to year.

Therefore, it is fair to say that neither Montana nor South Dakota will have the same murder ratio next year. It could get worse, or it could get better, but it will certainly change by a significant amount. Whereas that will not be the case in Delaware or Kentucky with their much larger population density.

 

[CLAX1911]

Criminals have an easier time killing people due to the huge number of guns in our society.

The guns aren't going anywhere this country's been around for 250 years and they've never wanted to change that so maybe it's time to focus on the criminals if you even give a s*** about the criminals for you to simp for a police state.

So I guess the better question is why do you want to live in a police state?

 

[Daddyo]

What does that have to do with what I wrote? "Makes killing easier" is a beneficial attribute. Soldiers aren't the only ones who employ rifles now, so there's no way to extrapolate that to centuries and centuries ago.


This explains a lot of your arguments. You imagine.

A sword makes killing easier.

I would argue that when swords were used in combat they were far more effective. With firearms thousands even tens of thousands of rounds are fired for each kill. Vietnam it was 50,000 rounds fired for each kill. In sword combat the strike to death ratio is much lower.

Ease of killing is higher with many weapons. The biggest advantage of the firearm is that it allows one to project deadly force at distance.

 

[Daddyo]

And your explanation as to why soldiers are now given rifles instead of swords is…? And there is a saying - even a song - something like don’t “bring a knife to a gunfight.” Must indicate something.

Probably not. But I imagine cops would rather there were fewer guns around.

Why? Because firearms allow the soldiers to project deadly force. Weapons that are more deadly and way more efficient, like a broad sword, wouldn’t come into play because of that projection. Firearms are easy to operate but hard to use effectively as the 50,000 rounds per kill in Vietnam proves. Handguns, the most misused firearms in this country, are terribly ineffective. Over 80 percent of shooting victims survive. I highly doubt that 80 percent of victims hit by a broad sword would survive.

Bringing a knife to a gunfight. Because of that projection. At contact distances the knife is just as deadly.

 

[Daddyo]

This little Chinese lady scored a winning three pointer at the buzzer against David Hogg on that one:



In Texas they’d say she hogtied ‘im.

Awesome video. Joe Rogans reaction ridiculously funny. But she did bitch slap Hogg. It was a KO.

 

[Daddyo]

Huh? Both killing and murder are made easier with guns.

They are also made easier by knives and automobiles.

 

[Daddyo]

Not an unexpected claim being made by an American conservative. For some reason, research says otherwise

How does your response rebut what I posted?

 

[Daddyo]

Denying reality does seem to be a requirement for labeling oneself as "Conservative"

States with the highest homicide rates in 2020:

• Mississippi
• Louisiana
• Alabama
• Missouri
• Arkansas
• South Carolina
• Tennessee
• Maryland.

States with the biggest rate increase in 2020:

• Montana (+83.8)
• South Dakota (+80.6)
• Delaware (+62.3)
• Kentucky (+61.0)

And not knowing one’s ass from a hole in the ground seems to be the same for the leftist.

See they love to toss out the old look at those red states crime stats. As if there are zero democrats in those states. When we take a slightly closer look at those red states we see that, low and behold, areas filled with and run by leftists, aka todays democrats, are the areas responsible for the VAST majority of that violent crime.

Your comrades screwing up the numbers for the red state then the left programs you to use those numbers against that state lol. You need to research what you are being fed. Definitely stop talking crap about Fox while you remain so ignorant of reality.

 

[Daddyo]

I get it. Ex-cons have no trouble getting a gun do they?

It’s much easier outside of prison for sure. They might be able to fashion one from a bar of soap but it won’t work well.

And you seem to have missed the point. As usual. More than half of the violent crime being committed should never have happened. Bad guys getting an early second chance at innocent victims to the point that more than 60 percent of current violent crime is caused by them. Leftist policies feeding the crime those same leftists use to say guns are bad. It’s insanity.

 

[rahl]

Criminals have an easier time killing people due to the huge number of guns in our society.

The homicide rate is 40% lower than it was despite adding over 270 million firearms since we began tracking that data. Which was 1986.

 

[Mungo Jerry]

Apparently, you don't understand the difference between total numbers and statistics based on population numbers.

All I see here is you avoiding the fact most of the violent crime in red states comes from areas run by Democrats.

 

[iguanaman]

It’s much easier outside of prison for sure. They might be able to fashion one from a bar of soap but it won’t work well.

And you seem to have missed the point. As usual. More than half of the violent crime being committed should never have happened. Bad guys getting an early second chance at innocent victims to the point that more than 60 percent of current violent crime is caused by them. Leftist policies feeding the crime those same leftists use to say guns are bad. It’s insanity.

We have the highest imprisoned rate of any western nation AND the highest murder rate from guns. Clearly locking people up is not working. There must be a better way.

 

[Nickyjo]

Why? Because firearms allow the soldiers to project deadly force. Weapons that are more deadly and way more efficient, like a broad sword, wouldn’t come into play because of that projection. Firearms are easy to operate but hard to use effectively as the 50,000 rounds per kill in Vietnam proves. Handguns, the most misused firearms in this country, are terribly ineffective. Over 80 percent of shooting victims survive. I highly doubt that 80 percent of victims hit by a broad sword would survive.

Bringing a knife to a gunfight. Because of that projection. At contact distances the knife is just as deadly.

Ok, let’s meet at dawn. Bring your seconds. We’ll each take 10 paces, then turn and use our weapons. I will have a gun. You will have a knife.

 

[RF667799]

We have the highest imprisoned rate of any western nation AND the highest murder rate from guns. Clearly locking people up is not working. There must be a better way.

All those prisoners are imprisoned due to murdering people with guns?

Another way to look at this, is about 50% of murders go unresolved. An even higher rate of other crimes. Clearly something isn't working.

 

[Daddyo]

Why should criminals be able to get guns? Where do they come from?

This graph simply shows origin. I provide ATF with firearm trace info almost weekly. All of the above sources require background checks. No one with a disqualifying conviction OR even a disqualifying charge pending or any other disqualifier can acquire a firearm thru those methods.

So criminals are not getting them that way.

Pawnbrokers are FFL DEALERS.

Manufacturers must sell thru an FFL dealer.

Other is likely LE acquisitions.

Dealer is of course FFL dealers.

Criminals are getting them via straw purchase, private sales, theft, bad dealers, etc.

And every gun that gets transferred to a FFL dealer via a manufacturer or other dealer is tracked. Upon inspection the dealer must produce every gun or a 4473 for each gun that is missing. My last inspection took 9 days and sucked ass. We passed with flying colors AKA zero violations.

If a dealer was back door dealing it would be exposed very quickly and the dealer would be shut down or arrested.

 

[Glitch]

It’s much easier outside of prison for sure. They might be able to fashion one from a bar of soap but it won’t work well.

And you seem to have missed the point. As usual. More than half of the violent crime being committed should never have happened. Bad guys getting an early second chance at innocent victims to the point that more than 60 percent of current violent crime is caused by them. Leftist policies feeding the crime those same leftists use to say guns are bad. It’s insanity.

Which is why I have always supported "Truth in Sentencing." If someone is sentenced to serve five years in prison, then they serve the full five years to the day in prison. Completely abolish parole and the time-off-for-good-behavior nonsense. If they didn't want to serve the time they should have been on their good behavior before committing the crime. A life sentence should actually mean life. Not a mere seven years and then let out on parole to commit even more crimes.

Prison is about punishment, not about reform. If they didn't want to suffer the punishment, they shouldn't have committed the crime.

 

[Daddyo]

LOL What is a crime motor vehicle? We register cars to owners unlike guns.

Guns aren’t registered but the ATF seems to magically be able to trace them back to the original owner lol.

 

[Daddyo]

But why deny that guns are a factor in the number of gun deaths, even if only one of several?

You have to have a gun to have a gun death. That’s the only “factor”.

 

[Glitch]

Guns aren’t registered but the ATF seems to magically be able to trace them back to the original owner lol.

The BATFE has been violating the law and maintaining a firearm database since the unconstitutional Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 was enacted into law.

BATFE Now Has Data On Over One Billion Firearms Transactions BUT We Must Trust They Are Not Building a National Gun Registry To Use Against Us

One of the main fears of gun owners for decades has been the required registration of our weapons with the federal government. This from redstate.com. The fear is not unfound that such a registry could be used

defconnews.com

 

[Daddyo]

Daddy0 wrote: "In reality only areas with high numbers of leftists and guns seem to be the problem."

To which I replied:



Of the states listed, which ones are controlled by the GOP?

Daddyo also wrote that if you looked at the areas producing the vast majority of violent crime within that red republican controlled state you will find that those areas are filled with and run by democrats.

You don’t get to have your comrades cause the high stats and then use those stats against republicans. You can try but you will be told the error in your facts. Plenty of blue within those red states and ironically that’s where the crime comes from.

 

[Nickyjo]

You have to have a gun to have a gun death. That’s the only “factor”.

Right. More guns in circulation - legally or not - means more gun deaths, just as more drugs in circulation, more people ignoring speed limits or other safety regs, means more deaths.

 

[RF667799]

Right. More guns in circulation - legally or not - means more gun deaths, just as more drugs in circulation, more people ignoring speed limits or other safety regs, means more deaths.

You're conflating illegal actions with mere ownership. The data tends to prove you wrong in the case of guns, though. There are more guns "in circulation" now, than at any point in the history of the nation. Is the rate of murders at its highest point in history?

 

[Nickyjo]

You're conflating illegal actions with mere ownership. The data tends to prove you wrong in the case of guns, though. There are more guns "in circulation" now, than at any point in the history of the nation. Is the rate of murders at its highest point in history?

The murder rate will fluctuate, but will generally still be higher than in countries with fewer guns. So obviously (I am guessing here) that a state like Wyoming with a higher rate of gun ownership might have a lower murder rate than Louisiana or New York City, where the rate is lower but has more murders. My concern is the belief expressed here at times that the number of guns in circulation is unrelated to homicide rates.

 

[RF667799]

The murder rate will fluctuate, but will generally still be higher than in countries with fewer guns. So obviously (I am guessing here) that a state like Wyoming with a higher rate of gun ownership might have a lower murder rate than Louisiana or New York City, where the rate is lower but has more murders. My concern is the belief expressed here at times that the number of guns in circulation is unrelated to homicide rates.

So with your more broad, general statement refuted; it's back to the "let's cherry pick some countries" argument.

If your belief is that the number of guns in circulation is related to homicide rates, then you should be able to support it in a more robust manner than the poor effort generally on display.

 

[CLAX1911]

You know El Salvador has the highest murder rate in the world and they cracked down on gangsters and reduced it to one of the lowest. I'm not sure they changed gun laws.