You're trying to tell me that correct spelling being a waste of time isn't synonymous with "doesn't matter."I never said spelling doesn't matter, I said using up all that time on spelling is a waste of time. Kids can learn to spell rather quickly while reading and writing. You can see if a child can spell by reading their papers. You don't need weekly spelling drills, they don't work well at teaching a child to spell. That's been studied for years.
You'll probably hate the way I approach a child's curriculum.
I homeschooled, and my kids all spell better than me. We never had a spelling lesson, not one. Instead my kids wrote stories in clubs through the internet. They made sure they had a story that was well written because it was a reflection of them. They learned whatever they wanted. I wasn't giving weekly tests, or checking there work for errors. They checked it.
My daughter now has a 4.2 gpa and has every year through her university life. She'll graduate with honors in a year as an Engineer. They taught themselves what they needed to know, and with technology that was an easy thing to do. My older daughter is a graphic artists, because she loves art. Spent most of her time perfecting it from a young age. She's landed a great job at a game company in Sweden where her fiancé lives.
One size doesn't fit all. Each student is different, and even my kids differed in their own unique way. The Nordic Countries have a saying, "What ever it takes" and will do whatever they need for each student. Have smaller classrooms, and the same teacher for years. Allow them space and time to learn.
America's "one size fits all approach" is lacking in my opinion. Computers are a must in every classroom because they're apart of daily life now, but if a child doesn't like learning on a computer, then they can try another way. But, to say computers don't catch a homonym is very narrow minded to me. There are a thousand ways to learn grammar. My kids learned it so they wouldn't embarrass themselves in their creative writing clubs, and role playing adventures because they loved it. The computer was just a useful tool to watch instruction. It was efficient.
Cursive writing was never an interest of my children, they never learned it. They've never needed it. If a child wants to learn it, then they will. I don't think it should be required, I think that would be a waste of time. My son has a special interest, pen pals all over the world. He likes traditional mail, so that's what he does. I think it all depends what interests the child has. Then they have the will.
I hope we learn to trust children more, and stop testing them to death. All that's done is take the joy out of learning all these wonderful things and I do hope we stop teaching like we're herding cattle in this country.
My approach isn't for everyone. Whatever works.
You are mistaken if you think that computers not catching homonym areas is unimportant. I've always earned part of my living editing for publication, and this is because a computer will not catch all the errors.
You're probably right about the burgeoning impact of AI, but I'm not worried yet about human beings being entirely displaced. But I will say this, that I worked for an AI research facility whose contracts were strictly military, and it was back then in the early 90's that I decided that where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.Yet. AI will get so good, that when matched to an individual human author, it will know what the author meant to say.
At what point we accept that humans will have supportive AI throughout their careers, or alternatively ban individually supportive AI's in education and in careers, I expect will will always expect kids to pass final exams without any AI assistance. Otherwise, it becomes a contest of AI's and pretty much a contest of money available to the student.
That’s giving way too much creditability to AII obviously don't agree.
We're getting to the point where teachers can no longer tell who wrote a paper and who had an AI write it. Schools need to progress with the times, businesses aren't going to wait on our lack of modern education, they'll just hire from other countries.
I think it's doing a disservice to American kids. Already 51% of jobs are highly susceptible to automation. Why send your child to school for that many years for nothing?
We need more automation design and technology taught at a young age and less unless skills. A lot of foreign countries are ahead of us in this. How long will we wait?
School should be a living progressing experience. Kids get to college and freak out because they don't know anything useful. We should fix that.
Eeeeek! Computers won't catch a homonym error! And you can't trust spell/grammar-checks either; you have to KNOW!
I won't lie; I truly grieve for the many, many hours I spent in the stacks in grad school...all the paper I ripped out of the typewriter and wadded up into balls...and I LOVE the Internet. I look stuff up continually, and what a miracle to just Google and to have electronic library sharing and etc. Word-processing and the ability to just cut-and-paste!
But when you say that spelling doesn't matter, you're veering into philistine territory. Spelling matters. Cursive writing matters too.
Apparently you are in the same boat as the person I responded to previously. You dont understand the reason for the necessity of being able to do things manually and learning to do that before doing it digitally. It is the fundamental foundation and understanding that underlies everything else. Knowing the fundamentals provides the ability to operate outside the digital sphere. This can be important because the power does go out and you may need to do something manually. How many people cant make change? Or add and subtract without a calculator? Quite a few these days.
And yet you acknowledge that "Doing things manually really makes the basics sink in and become a natural part of your thinking so that even when you use technology you will be aware of any glitches that may occur." I find hilarious your arrogant dismissal of the value of cursive handwriting as "ducationally superficial when you clearly haven't read up.:Cursive writing doesn’t matter. It has no intellectual impact. It is strictly for looks and educationally superficial.
You're trying to tell me that correct spelling being a waste of time isn't synonymous with "doesn't matter."
If you home-schooled, I think that's great. Results are what matter, and your children seem to have profited greatly from it.
I agree. Which is why I think the old weekly spelling cram doesn't work. Words should mean more at the time they're taught. That's all I'm saying. I should have been clearer in my explanation. I don't think teaching spelling separate from writing is efficient, or beneficial. When I see that "list" of spelling words for the week I cringe.That may work for spelling (and it did for me) but to learn what words MEAN requires something more than just reading the same word in context, over and over.
Consider the widely-misused word "exponential." If the first half dozen times you hear it you think from the context it just means "increasing alarmingly" then you're either confused or uninterested when you later read it in a scientific or mathematical context.
Another word that bothers me but not as much, is "existential." Even in the sense "a threat to the existence of" it is often used hyperbolically. When someone says "a an existential threat to Western culture" I can't take them seriously
My business is academia, so perhaps my opinion doesn't matter. But I don't regard cursive handwriting as quaint or inefficient either--depends on the task. Of course, both you and I have the tremendous advantage of being able to both word-process and write by hand, and it is the loss of stimulation to critical parts of the brain that concerns me. Ideally, we want students' brains to be stimulated in every way possible, but most students can't read cursive either. So what happens to teachers' or profs' comments on written work?The Information Age will be the same. We already rely heavily on computers, and the internet. Phones aren't just for talking anymore. You can do everything you can do on a computer on your phone, Efficiency is what people are attracted to. We communicate now more than we ever have, and that has become the new norm. When you hold that back from children, you are holding back their ability to fit into this century. They won't learn the necessary social skills of their time, and how to avoid the dangers.
Can you cheat using your smart phone? Yes, but you could cheat before you used your smart phone. It's not the devise that makes you a cheater.
Cursive writing is an amazing writing style. If you want to learn cursive writing, you can. Some will make a living using cursive writing, just like making things by hand. It's unique. I don't think it should be mandatory, it should be a choice. It's no longer useful on a large scale. We have script for that, and you can turn anything you write into cursive in a second with one click. Again, efficient.
Robots are the next wave of efficiency. They will replace the need for humans in many areas. I think it's only wise to prepare our children. We should also start preparing for how we will live as a society when jobs are lost, and replaced with robotics. We can't stop it, nor do I believe we should. We need to adapt. Trying to stop it only delays our response and leaves us unprepared.
I understand the love of what's familiar, and what we thought was important. Things change so fast now, it's not that long ago that a book bag was necessary but today a computer bag has taken over. It's lighter, and all the knowledge from those books can be found in this device. What if it breaks? You fix it. You reload your stored data and continue on with your life. That's todays reality.
In the near future you won't need any bag to carry to school. You might not be needing to go anywhere. I'll probably be guarded and taken care of largely by a robot when I'm old. My kids will talk to me through a large screen or home device. I might have a robot dog. lol
My son has a passion for hobbies involving old craftmanship. He also likes the slower pace of doing things by hand, learning by book, he loves the feel and smell of paper. So he does. If that's what you like then just do what you like. He makes things out of wood, and cloth. He loves to sew and cross stitch. He gardens. He's an old soul. Just because the majority of people are moving forward and love the efficiency technology brings doesn't mean you have to. It just means you have more options. My sons now making a living off his crafts and he enjoys his peaceful life.
Most of our businesses will pick what's efficient, it's increases profit. We can't stop that train, never could. We might as well be prepared so the impact is minimum.
I'm not sure why you're so upset, but I apologize if my post made you feel like your profession doesn't matter. My father was a professor, and my mother was a teacher, I understand and respect what you do. Of course your opinion matters to me or I wouldn't be having a conversation from you. I was under the impression we were sharing our opinions.My business is academia, so perhaps my opinion doesn't matter. But I don't regard cursive handwriting as quaint or inefficient either--depends on the task. Of course, both you and I have the tremendous advantage of being able to both word-process and write by hand, and it is the loss of stimulation to critical parts of the brain that concerns me. Ideally, we want students' brains to be stimulated in every way possible, but most students can't read cursive either. So what happens to teachers' or profs' comments on written work?
Note: I began teaching online in 1999, and all of my grading was, of course, electronic. So very helpful for profs willing to take the time to mark errors and explain them (but even more time-consuming than marking by hand). The second LED overheads were placed in the classroom, I was able to employ both old-school and new-school techniques and toggle back and forth from screen to white board ("chalk" as in "chalk and talk"). What I want is strengthening and versatility of brain use. Don't try to paint it as being "old-fashioned" or a preference for a slower pace.
Yeah, we're not quite to that point with input, but eventually we will be. The computer is only as good as it's programer. lolI am in full agreement. I am glad that I went to school in the age of manual learning being widespread. But all is not lost. When I retired from my accounting job my replacement that I trained told me that in his college accounting courses he had to do everything on paper and written in pen. Doing things manually really makes the basics sink in and become a natural part of your thinking so that even when you use technology you will be aware of any glitches that may occur. Computers are not perfect. I remember having a calculator that went bad in the early days of their use. Computer programs can be poorly written and give bad results that must be found and corrections made to the software. This happened to me in my job with fixed asset software incorrectly calculating depreciation. When I manually calculated it I found it. The problem is that people look at computers as a replacement for their brains, and not as a tool to aid their brains, just like a slide rule was once used. My father used a slide rule in his job and I learned from him how to use it. The basics really need to be in our brains, not just in our machines.
I'm not at all upset.I'm not sure why you're so upset, but I apologize if my post made you feel like your profession doesn't matter. My father was a professor, and my mother was a teacher, I understand and respect what you do. Of course your opinion matters to me or I wouldn't be having a conversation from you. I was under the impression we were sharing our opinions.
By saying my son appreciated old fashion methods doesn't mean I think your methods are old fashion. I was just trying to show you my youngest, surrounded by all this technology still found appreciation for older methods of learning, and art. Just because we don't teach it actively doesn't mean people will forget it, and never use it or appreciate it. I just don't think it's required by all, there are choices and that's great. I think children work well when they take control of their learning journey. That's just my opinion.
If you like to mix old with new then good for you. If it's successful, even better. I don't think you should eliminate technology for the sake of past methods. That's all. No harm meant, we can both have different outlooks on education and still want the best outcome for students. That we share.
It was nice hearing about you methods. "Chalk and talk" sounds awesome.
And yet you acknowledge that "Doing things manually really makes the basics sink in and become a natural part of your thinking so that even when you use technology you will be aware of any glitches that may occur." I find hilarious your arrogant dismissal of the value of cursive handwriting as "ducationally superficial when you clearly haven't read up.:
The effects of handwriting experience on functional brain development in pre-literate children
In an age of increasing technology, the possibility that typing on a keyboard will replace handwriting raises questions about the future usefulness of…www.sciencedirect.com
2. Importance of Cursive Handwriting in Education In the early stages of child learning and development, handwriting provides a direct connection or pathway between the brain and the hand for developing literacy. The complex motor processes needed for handwriting, spelling, and compositional writing requires an integration that reinforces language skills in the developing brain. Research has shown that spelling, reading, and writing are reinforced when handwriting is involved (Edwards, 2003; Graham et al., 2000; Jones & Christensen, 1999; Maeland & Karlsdottir, 1991). According to Berninger and Amtmann (2003), “handwriting is more than just a motor act…handwriting is ‘language by hand’” (p. 346). However, if handwriting is not learned properly, the interference of poor handwriting acquisition can have an inhibitory effect on compositional writing (Edwards, 2003). There are few motor tasks that link the body and the brain so intimately as handwriting. The fine motor skill required for handwriting in combination with short-term and long-term memory and language acquisition has benefits for the developing brain that few other activities can replicate. It has been found that a multi-sensory or kinesthetic approach to learning benefits both disabled and non-learning disabled children (Stempel-Mathey & Wolf, 1999; Laszlo & Broderick, 1991). Handwriting is a multi-sensory activity that helps with fine motor coordination, memory, and cognitive development. Adams (as cited in Stempel-Mathey & Wolf, 1999) states that handwriting “may contribute valuably toward the development of those fine motor skills that determine the willingness as well as the ability to write” (p. 258). Researchers have found that without proper handwriting instruction, children can have difficulty in reading and writing specifically in tasks such as retrieving letters from memory, reproducing letters on paper, accurate spelling, and extracting meaning from text (Berninger, 2012; Case-Smith, 2012; Peverly, 2012). Neurological studies on how the brain responds to different tasks involving text showed that there was significantly more brain activation when children wrote letters than when they typed or traced letters (James, 2012). https://www.researchgate.net/profil...national-Campaign-for-Cursive-Handwriting.pdf
Well, never mind the fact that mastery of a task or skill does strengthen cognitive development. If you will take the time to read my posts in this thread, you'll see that what I have specifically addressed is the role of cursive writing in stimulating parts of the brain that word-processing does not.Manually can mean hand printing or using a typewriter or even yes, manually typing into a document that resides in a computer. I don’t see the art of cursive as being critical to communicating ideas. It is the putting together of sentences and paragraphs in a coherent way that matters, and cursive is a valid way but not essential to this task. All of these ways are physical and do the same thing. The ability to write cursive and spell correctly are not essential to cognitive development.
Well, never mind the fact that mastery of a task or skill does strengthen cognitive development. If you will take the time to read my posts in this thread, you'll see that what I have specifically addressed is the role of cursive writing in stimulating parts of the brain that word-processing does not.
Chat GPT is in the classrooms already. I had students prepare notes for a chapter. One student handed in a nicely written 3 paragraph essay that didn't include one section of the text chapter.It's about time we switch how we teach children. The Industrial Age classroom just won't work for kids growing up in the digital age.
I'm onboard with that!Chat GPT is in the classrooms already. I had students prepare notes for a chapter. One student handed in a nicely written 3 paragraph essay that didn't include one section of the text chapter.
The giveaway...perfect spelling and grammar. My point however, is that the horse is out of the barn. Time to move away from creating cogs in the machine. My vision is that we go to real computer learning, the kind of learning that can adjust to individual needs in an instant. Teachers? They'll be in the classroom helping individual students as the need arises.
Individualized education is almost absent in todays classrooms. We all learn differently.I'm onboard with that!
Customizable and efficient. Heck, kids might get a shorter work week. That approach also coincides with what most of the world is doing right now.
I'm onboard with that!
Customizable and efficient. Heck, kids might get a shorter work week. That approach also coincides with what most of the world is doing right now.
Individualized education is almost absent in todays classrooms. We all learn differently.
I don't disagree. There are however, a number of classes where all work could be completed with a google searchWhile I sympathize with this, I still think it is important to have in our brains the understanding that technology is not the source of information, just a different way of storing information. We still need to be able to critically assess all information, not matter where it comes from. The problem with technology is how it s often trusted too much and how it offloads much of the mental exercise that brains need to be able to gather and assess information.
Yet another reason to support homeschooling.Individualized education is almost absent in todays classrooms. We all learn differently.
So that way your student can avoid socialization and qualified teachers?Yet another reason to support homeschooling.
I understand having the feeling. Luckily there are other activities and hobbies like music, gaming, reading that stretch the mind so you can connect those nerves. lolWhile I sympathize with this, I still think it is important to have in our brains the understanding that technology is not the source of information, just a different way of storing information. We still need to be able to critically assess all information, not matter where it comes from. The problem with technology is how it s often trusted too much and how it offloads much of the mental exercise that brains need to be able to gather and assess information.
As I have posted MANY times, homeschoolers have plenty of opportunities for "socialization." And if you mean by "qualified" you mean parents who have earned a teaching certificate or who hold a Bachelor's, I can only laugh. Most of the curricula need only facilitators. I know both parents who are professionals and hold multiple degrees and those who completed only high school whose children have been very successfully homeschooled (including one of my students who was only 15 and enrolled in engineering at a major university known for its engineering programs on a full-ride plus $50K in scholarships).So that way your student can avoid socialization and qualified teachers?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?