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Mirror Images? Ukraine vs Veneezuela.

Evilroddy

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Why is it wrong for Putin's Russia to interfere in the US political process (and it is) but it's fine for the US to interfere with the Venezuelan political process since 1922? There are between 7 and 9 million committed Chavistas in Venezuela and a significant number of them will not go down without a fight. So the US is setting Venezuela up for what may be a bloody and protracted civil war, much like Russia has done in the very corrupted and now divided Ukraine. If it's wrong for Russia to sunder Ukraine (and it is) then why is it acceptable for the US to do exactly the same thing in Venezuela? If Putin and the senior Russian leadership are allegedly war criminals in the eyes of Washington then are Mr. Trump and the senior US leadership not also war criminals if a military intervention by US forces or special forces occurs in Venezuela?

Should the FBI and the Congress have investigations into the two decades long campaign of political interference which the US Government has waged against Venezuela since 1998? After all, some in the US have said that what Mr. Putin's Russia did in 2015-2016 was a crime and possibly an act of war, so don't the same standards apply to US interference in the Venezuelan elections and the many US-sponsored coup attempts against both Chavez and Maduro?

Something we should all think about before President Trump, VP Pense, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, Elliott Abrams and the other usual suspects push this potential humanitarian disaster to a new level and past the point of no-return.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 

jnug

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I for one do not support our never ending efforts at regime change. That said, I am very concerned about Russia making inroads in Venezuela.

I would actually be OK with the US standing up for the Venezuelan people and their frustration with Madura. However, I just do not see us competently making our way in Venezuela under the leadership of Donald Trump and his merry band of idiots. Lets look at the situation on the ground in Venezuela:
- The US, immediately recognized Guaido (dead giveaway that we were on the ground in Venezuela working that ole' US regime change magic)
- However who the heck in US Intelligence missed the fact that Maduro still had and has the support of the military?
- What else have we miscalculating about the situation on the ground in Venezuela even while being there at least covertly supporting Guaido?

Unless you are prepared to invade, if the regime you oppose still has control of the military, you are going nowhere in a hurry. Maduro still has control of the Military, still has control of the government. He still has control of taxation and can arrest anybody he darned well pleases. Seems to me that at the very least, coming out to recognize Guaido as early as we did was a blunder. What else is new. Welcome to Trumpian geopolitics. We can't even seem to get it right in our own backyard.

Maduro is well within his rights to tell US diplomats to leave as he still has control of the government no matter who we decide to recognize. We have surely set up the false narrative that our diplomats are at risk if we do not go in. But how is rescuing our diplomats even if they are at risk and even if we decide to do that justification for doing more than that?

The mistake appears to be in having recognized Guaido as early as we have without accurately judging the situation on the ground in Venezuela. Seems to me we had ample time to prepare the ground for deposing Maduro at the right moment and just flat blew it. Now if we go in militarily, we will be going in with our pants down around our ankles and our butts hung out in the breeze. Looks more like the usual Trumpian incompetence to me.
 

Evilroddy

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Apologies for the typo in the thread title. Must proof read more carefully.

Cheers.
The illiterate Evilroddy.
 

jnug

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So now we have shot off our "big gun", recognizing Guaido and what do we have to show for it?

Pompeo is blathering uselessly at the UN: "Now its time for all nations to choose sides". Why is that Mike, because your boss tripped over his yoo-yoo on the way to the microphone and blurted out recognition for Guaido prematurely? What the frigg are we doing down there?

Either we:
- had no earthly idea what the situation on the ground was in Venezuela because we were not engaged covertly in any way though now we are trying to act like we had a clue.

If not that, we:
- actually were engaged on the ground covertly and are simply so numbingly hopeless and incompetent under Donald Trump that we have completely frigged it up!

I actually am more concerned that it is the latter and not the former though just barely!
 
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