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Minority Rights

DebateChallenge said:
There's more to it than that, you obviously haven't had much training with guns, if any at all. Come back when you've got such training and then we can talk.
That is very obvious. But I did note that he didn't come off as an insulting know it all smart ass, so big KUDOS for that in my book. Also he didn't run off and hide.(y)
 
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.chi...krishnamoorthi-0326-story.html?outputType=amp

The topic of deterrence often comes up in debates about the function of punishment in jail, rehabilitation, recidivism and the death penalty. Added jail time for possession of a weapon in a crime might discourage the likes of armed robbery, intimidation or assault. But a limitation with cool-down periods on gun purchases and higher jail sentences is that they could still be insufficient in dissuading highly motivated criminals. It takes more determination and intentionality to carry out a murder than a robbery. A killing requires more will power to deal with the risks of retaliation or arrest and long-term sentences. So if a criminal is already prepared and incensed enough to plan on killing someone, then in my view the best countermeasure is to ensure they’re disarmed altogether rather than additional punitive deterrents. Trying to prevent recidivism is unfortunately too late for the first victim.
 
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-waiting-period-guns-weapons-sale-homicides-raja-krishnamoorthi-0326-story.html?outputType=amp

The topic of deterrence often comes up in debates about the function of punishment in jail, rehabilitation, recidivism and the death penalty. Added jail time for possession of a weapon in a crime might discourage the likes of armed robbery, intimidation or assault. But a limitation with cool-down periods on gun purchases and higher jail sentences is that they could still be insufficient in dissuading highly motivated criminals. It takes more determination and intentionality to carry out a murder than a robbery. A killing requires more will power to deal with the risks of retaliation or arrest and long-term sentences. So if a criminal is already prepared and incensed enough to plan on killing someone, then in my view the best countermeasure is to ensure they’re disarmed altogether rather than additional punitive deterrents. Trying to prevent recidivism is unfortunately too late for the first victim.
"So if a criminal is already prepared and incensed enough to plan on killing someone, then in my view the best countermeasure is to ensure they’re disarmed altogether rather than additional punitive deterrents. "

How do you do this?
 
If there’s democratic consent, then just copy the airport system and use metal detectors and body scanners. Where there’s a will there’s a way!
You're not aware of just how many people are in the US, are you?
 
You're not aware of just how many people are in the US, are you?
Yes it’s more difficult to monitor larger populations. Yet Europe as a whole is comparable to America in terms of size.

Al Capone was convicted for tax evasion. So if some criminals evade gun control, there might be a consolation where we can convict a gangster for having a weapon even if they didn’t leave evidence for other crimes.
 
Yes it’s more difficult to monitor larger populations. Yet Europe as a whole is comparable to America in terms of size.

Al Capone was convicted for tax evasion. So if some criminals evade gun control, there might be a consolation where we can convict a gangster for having a weapon even if they didn’t leave evidence for other crimes.
We have that already.
 
A registered gun club doesn’t have to be state-owned and can be run privately or cooperatively. Therefore storing your weapons at a gun club doesn’t impinge on the rights of private citizens.
 
A registered gun club doesn’t have to be state-owned and can be run privately or cooperatively. Therefore storing your weapons at a gun club doesn’t impinge on the rights of private citizens.
Mandatory storage would, however.
 
A registered gun club doesn’t have to be state-owned and can be run privately or cooperatively. Therefore storing your weapons at a gun club doesn’t impinge on the rights of private citizens.
Yes it does, mandating people to keep their property in a specific place, whether its state owned or not, is an infringement and a violation of the 4th Amendment. It might be all fine and dandy in your country of Ireland but here in the USA we have the Bill Of Rights.
 
Added jail time for possession of a weapon in a crime might discourage the likes of armed robbery, intimidation or assault. But a limitation with cool-down periods on gun purchases and higher jail sentences is that they could still be insufficient in dissuading highly motivated criminals.
True, the way to stop those highly motivated criminals is by having good armed citizens.

So if a criminal is already prepared and incensed enough to plan on killing someone, then in my view the best countermeasure is to ensure they’re disarmed altogether rather than additional punitive deterrents.
I agree on disarming criminals, and we can do that by putting them away. Disarming law abiding citizens does nothing towards disarming criminals.
 
The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States. Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and Regulate them Well!
"So if a criminal is already prepared and incensed enough to plan on killing someone, then in my view the best countermeasure is to ensure they’re disarmed altogether rather than additional punitive deterrents. "

How do you do this?
The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States. Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and Regulate them Well!
 
Yes it does, mandating people to keep their property in a specific place, whether its state owned or not, is an infringement and a violation of the 4th Amendment. It might be all fine and dandy in your country of Ireland but here in the USA we have the Bill Of Rights.
He apparently does not understand that criminals normally cannot be members of gun clubs and are not likely to obey such laws anyway
 
This is a State's sovereign right:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States. Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and Regulate them Well until we have no more security problems!
 
Disarming law abiding citizens does nothing towards disarming criminals.
Criminals were law abiding citizens up until the time of their first offence. Even without guns many of those convicted of murder or rape might not have had any criminal record beforehand.
 
Your point?
Arming teachers and employing armed security at schools have often been suggested in response to school shootings. Yet we can’t arm young teenage students with guns in case of accidental or negligent use. The problem is that some evil people have no personal limits on the amount of harm they inflict. So it’s not just schools but also isolated incidents of an armed adult assaulting a juvenile. Even without guns there’s an imbalance of physical strength between different ages. With guns a sinister person has an undefeatable advantage against an unarmed juvenile. How can we protect unarmed young people in general? Moreover there’s cases of youths in criminal gangs being armed by others. So young people are vulnerable to both armed adult and teenage criminals. There’s no way to stop an adult who’s already armed giving juvenile criminals their guns.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/toronto...wcm/5d1db41c-96fb-4ca3-a208-84000c9b40e2/amp/
 
I did mention how a knife fight will be more random than a fist fight. Yet I’m not implying that it’s a 50-50 chance. Increased strength still means you’ve more stability and accuracy. So guns won’t be an equaliser or a panacea in defending vulnerable people. Guns can be an equaliser in the sense that unorganised guerrilla groups can deter and ambush larger armies which wouldn’t work in pre-gun times against a phalanx of ancient Greek worriers. That doesn’t trickle down to individual citizens.

“A world without guns, therefore, is one in which the advantages of youth, size, strength, aggression and sheer numbers are almost always decisive.”
https://samharris.org/the-riddle-of-the-gun/
 
Arming teachers and employing armed security at schools have often been suggested in response to school shootings.
Exactly.
Yet we can’t arm young teenage students with guns in case of accidental or negligent use.
But we're talking about arming teachers and security, not students.
The problem is that some evil people have no personal limits on the amount of harm they inflict.
All the more reason for good people to be armed.
 
He apparently does not understand that criminals normally cannot be members of gun clubs and are not likely to obey such laws anyway
The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
All the more reason for good people to be armed.
Alternatively we could enlist more reserve police to expedite police response times. So there’s gun club members, the police, military police, reserve police and soldiers who can all come to our aid against an armed criminal. In major cultural sites like the Eiffel Tower they’ve always soldiers on guard without there being martial law or curfews.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.the...elle-soldiers-patrolling-streets-france-safer
 
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