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Ministers and priests behaving badly.

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The Bible doesn't say anything about keeping your mitts off 15 year old girls. Neither does it say anything about shoving meth up your nose. So maybe this preacher just didn't know any better. You think that maybe it?
It brings reproach on Jehovah God, as well as other Christians...

"Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." Matthew 5:16

"Maintain your conduct fine among the nations, so that when they accuse you of being wrongdoers, they may be eyewitnesses of your fine works and, as a result, glorify God in the day of his inspection." 1 Peter 2:12

It is also disobedience to secular law...

"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God." Romans 13:1
 
It brings reproach on Jehovah God, as well as other Christians...

"Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens." Matthew 5:16

"Maintain your conduct fine among the nations, so that when they accuse you of being wrongdoers, they may be eyewitnesses of your fine works and, as a result, glorify God in the day of his inspection." 1 Peter 2:12

It is also disobedience to secular law...

"Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God." Romans 13:1
So in the case of this and other criminal preachers, belief in God has no practical benefits for society. Believing hogwash doesn't keep believers from behaving badly
 
So in the case of this and other criminal preachers, belief in God has no practical benefits for society. Believing hogwash doesn't keep believers from behaving badly
There are many Christians who live what they believe...those who don't are what Jesus called hypocrites...
 


Catholic Priests are less likely to be pedos than the general population. Its just that the Satanic neoliberal media reports every case making it seems as though there is some kind of problem. You could start a thread on every teacher that gets caught abusing kids and it would have more legs.
 


Catholic Priests are less likely to be pedos than the general population. Its just that the Satanic neoliberal media reports every case making it seems as though there is some kind of problem. You could start a thread on every teacher that gets caught abusing kids and it would have more legs.

It's the cover-up. And the Pope was in on it. I guarantee it
 
It's the cover-up. And the Pope was in on it. I guarantee it
Oh I knew you would say that.

Is the Catholic Church above the law? If parents of these children did not trust the accusations of their children enough to report them to the police then why would the church? Their own parents dont believe the kid.... Until some compensation is on offer. Then they come out of the woodwork dont they.....
 
But you just wanted to confine it to "clergy". So be it. I'm game. I still think I could bury you with studies, exposes and articles about just religious leaders. Let's find out, shall we.

No need to dodge it. I'm still waiting for your articles on the vast numbers of teachers who are ****ed up in the head about sex. I'm sorry I scared you away. Please rejoin the fray.
So, 76 million students in 2018. Studies reveal that 10% of that group of students will experience school employee sexual misconduct by the time they graduate high school. Extrapolating a 50-year impact of that 10% gets us to about 32 million victims (76M x .10 x 4.2(50 years / 12 year school cycle)) over that time period, assuming no significant change in the number of students or the percentage of school employees of the whole, who qualify as being ****ed up in the head about sex. Of course we can't know how many school employees create this pool of victims, as perpetrators may prey on one victim at a time, or they may prey on an entire classroom. BTW, I'm not that thrilled about these numbers. The education industry is made up of some very, very good people and I have several friends that are teachers. By and large, most teachers are wonderful folks, trying to do their best by these children and their families. Most spend lots of long hours at fairly low pay teaching my and your kids what we don't necessarily have time (or want) to do.

Misconduct ( which, in my opinion is fair (and tangible) proxy for ****ed up in the head about sex) for the above study includes;

*Any conduct that would amount to sexual harassment under Title IX
of the (U.S.) Education Amendments of 1972.

*Any conduct that would amount to sexual abuse of a minor person
under state criminal codes.

*Any sexual relationship by an educator with a student, regardless of
the student’s age; with a former student under 18; with a former
student (regardless of age) who suffers from a disability that would
prevent consent in a relationship. All students enrolled in the school
and in any organization in which the educator holds a position of
trust and responsibility are included.

*Any activity directed toward establishing a sexual relationship such
as sending intimate letters; engaging in sexualized dialogue in
person, via the Internet, in writing or by phone; making suggestive
comments; dating a student.



 
The RCC has shuffled abusive priests around for centuries. They still stonewall legal investigations because of their status as an independent country. Many churches hide behind religious immunity/freedom to prevent their dirty deeds from ever coming to light. How many religious groups are beneficiaries of taxpayer dollars despite the separation of church and state?

The religious bias of the current SCOTUS is very obvious.
I don't know how many religious groups are the beneficiaries of taxpayer dollars. Do you? If so, how many? And for exactly what?

I can't help but notice that you've singled out the RCC again because of your personal animus.
 
I don't know how many religious groups are the beneficiaries of taxpayer dollars. Do you? If so, how many? And for exactly what?

I can't help but notice that you've singled out the RCC again because of your personal animus.
All religions are beneficiaries of taxpayer dollars because of the tax cuts. Those benefits cost money to other taxpayers. James Madison opposed that idea in Memorial and Remonstance. The Catholic church also receives tax dollars from school vouchers and other programs, such as administering the adoption system in many states.

I was raised Roman Catholic in the Cleveland diocese. I know very well how that church works the system.
 

This is just one of many sites devoted to female teacher pedophiles.

Now wait for the excuses....
 

This is just one of many sites devoted to female teacher pedophiles.

Now wait for the excuses....
There are no excuses. Indict, hold a trial, and punish the guilty.

Who did you think would make excuses for them?
 
All religions are beneficiaries of taxpayer dollars because of the tax cuts. Those benefits cost money to other taxpayers. James Madison opposed that idea in Memorial and Remonstance. The Catholic church also receives tax dollars from school vouchers and other programs, such as administering the adoption system in many states.

I was raised Roman Catholic in the Cleveland diocese. I know very well how that church works the system.
My point was that again you're singling it out when the fact is that all churches/synagogues/temples have pastoral disciplinary problems. Always have and always will because this too is part of the "human condition." Where there is opportunity, sadly, there will be opportunists, sexual predators who prey on children. My understanding is that across denominations, about 4% of clergy are sexual abusers.

Christian and Other Faiths’ Sexual Predators

The nation’s three largest insurance carriers reported in 2018 that they “typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under eighteen being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers, or congregation members.”

The major denominations in the U.S. involve and covering up sexual predators include:

My point is that abuse and other clergy misconduct is not endemic to any denomination; it's a human nature problem. There are deviants among us--as we know, even in the Boy Scouts--who are going to prey on children. I just don't like seeing one denomination singled out or a pretense being made that the sexual abuse of children is anything new.
 
There are no excuses. Indict, hold a trial, and punish the guilty.

Who did you think would make excuses for them?
Teacher unions.
 
My point was that again you're singling it out when the fact is that all churches/synagogues/temples have pastoral disciplinary problems. Always have and always will because this too is part of the "human condition." Where there is opportunity, sadly, there will be opportunists, sexual predators who prey on children. My understanding is that across denominations, about 4% of clergy are sexual abusers.

Christian and Other Faiths’ Sexual Predators

The nation’s three largest insurance carriers reported in 2018 that they “typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under eighteen being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers, or congregation members.”

The major denominations in the U.S. involve and covering up sexual predators include:

My point is that abuse and other clergy misconduct is not endemic to any denomination; it's a human nature problem. There are deviants among us--as we know, even in the Boy Scouts--who are going to prey on children. I just don't like seeing one denomination singled out or a pretense being made that the sexual abuse of children is anything new.
The Catholic church is the most obvious because of the claim by the Vatican that they are a separate country so they claim diplomatic immunity to hide their priest's misdeeds and as well as their financials from independent oversight. They are certainly not the only ones but they are among the very worst.

The fact that they claim that their god is perfect, loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing while they are effectively running NAMBLA groups at the diocesan level makes me sick. If that is what is moral then we would all be much better off without organized religion. if someone needs a plagiarized book and church managed by sex abusers to tell them what is morally right and wrong because they are unable to make that determination themselves then those people need 24-7 oversight because they are sociopaths.


Teacher unions.
When has that happened, or do you just not like unions?
 
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So, 76 million students in 2018. Studies reveal that 10% of that group of students will experience school employee sexual misconduct by the time they graduate high school.
Good job! I see that in your 2nd link.
Extrapolating a 50-year impact of that 10% gets us to about 32 million victims (76M x .10 x 4.2(50 years / 12 year school cycle)) over that time period,
But here your numbers go completely off the rails. You don't want me extrapolating the 50 year impact of every possible clergyman. There are far more than you can imagine. Keep in mind, most of the people on this list would qualify under that definition.
assuming no significant change in the number of students or the percentage of school employees of the whole, who qualify as being ****ed up in the head about sex. Of course we can't know how many school employees create this pool of victims, as perpetrators may prey on one victim at a time, or they may prey on an entire classroom.
A point well made. In fact I think you'll find that sexual crimes suffer much higher recidivism than other crimes, even after conviction and release from prison. But this admission entirely undermines your contention. Having data alone on the number of school victims of sexual abuse says nothing about the number of perpetrators. And that is the only relevant data in this argument.

So, for the sake of getting real, in the first 6 months of 2022 there were 181 sexual assault charges across the country. That's all. Not so much, eh? No, not much at all. We can round that up to 200, and double it for an annual total. That's 400 "educators" - including teachers, principles, etc. in the K-12 bracket. It barely makes the radar screen. It doesn't even begin to approach just the number of Catholic priests who've molested children - 3,000 - let alone other types of sexual abuse from various clergy.
BTW, I'm not that thrilled about these numbers.
Then you shouldn't be making them up. Please explain where the 50-year impact factor in your equation comes from. Or don't bother. It pertains to victims - not perpetrators.
The education industry is made up of some very, very good people and I have several friends that are teachers. By and large, most teachers are wonderful folks, trying to do their best by these children and their families. Most spend lots of long hours at fairly low pay teaching my and your kids what we don't necessarily have time (or want) to do.

*Any conduct that would amount to sexual harassment under Title IX
of the (U.S.) Education Amendments of 1972.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ->
*Any activity directed toward establishing a sexual relationship such
as sending intimate letters; engaging in sexualized dialogue in
person, via the Internet, in writing or by phone; making suggestive
comments; dating a student.
This is a problem. For the sake of the argument, I'm tempted to accede to your definitions, as they would closely mesh with my own feelings in this issue. BUT ... I'm not aware of any studies of religious sexual abuse that breaks those numbers down - or for which there would even be a record. If my numbers represent, just as an example, priests molesting alter boys, can that really be compared to any harassment under Title IX. ?? Or sending someone a suggestive letter? Obviously not. We've run into comparing apples to beach balls, which may be an irreconcilable impediment to settling our dispute.**
Good choices.
Nevertheless, I think you're in denial about the breadth and depth of what we're really talking about. Your numbers don't even approach the number of Jewish Mohels across the country who perform genital mutilation on a regular basis!

No .... as I suspected, the numbers are not even close. And I don't see any way around the apples and beach balls problem from above. Just nailing down our definitions would take more posts than I have time for in my day.
 
For today's addition.

Charles Andrews, a 66-year-old minister living in Florida, has been arrested for allegedly having over 500 child porn pictures on his computer, including images of kids being sexually assaulted. Andrews was arrested Tuesday after the Sarasota County Sheriff’s Office was notified that he had downloaded nearly 70 pictures using the same IP address. Andrews, who was convicted of second-degree sexual abuse in Alabama in 2006, is already a registered sex offender. He is being held without bond on counts of child porn possession and failing to meet registration requirements for sex offenders.
 
Just by paying attention.


And "In response to an explosive investigation, top Southern Baptists have released a previously secret list of hundreds of pastors and other church-affiliated personnel accused of sexual abuse. (emphasis mine)




You said:

Clergy tend to be disproportionately twisted in their sexual expression. They are not the same as any other demographic cross section of the population.


@Lisa

Unless everyone - not only the clergy - gives you a blow-by-blow of their so-called, "sexual expressions," you can't possibly judge that someone's sexual expression is DISPROPORTIONATELY twisted as compared to others.
That's a fact. And, simple common sense.

You're not just talking about sex, either. You are referring to TWISTED sex.
FYI, that means DEVIANT sexual behaviours.

Like, I can tell you that gang-rape/murder of a young woman in a running public bus in India was quite shocking to me.
And yet, dare I conclude that sick sexual act (which seems to be prevalent in India) is........... "disproportionately twisted as compared to any other demographic cross section of the population?" I can't.
What about those who gets a kick out of ...........................bestiality? Or, snuff-sex?
Who knows what other sick "sexual expressions" are out there.


What we see is...................... the prevalence of evil in this world.
The Scriptures didn't say this world is Satan's kingdom, for nothing. 🤷
 
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The Boy Scots are a Christian organization and many troops are organized by churches.


The fact that many churches will not self-clean from these pedophiles makes it quite obvious that child sexual abuse is an integral part of Christian belief.

This is just the month of July and the RCC.

Congo, Africa https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/15/congo-catholic-priest-sex-abuse/

New Mexico, USA https://www.alamogordonews.com/stor...ed-july-2022-due-scheduling-error/4513577001/

NY State, https://nypost.com/2022/07/07/albany-ny-catholic-church-settles-child-victims-act-suit/

Louisana, USA. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-06-29/fbi-investigation-clergy-sex-abuse-new-orleans

The Vatican is virtually NAMBLA.

GOD and Christianity is as much a victim to this.
How many have lost faith in God over this?
How many have blamed God for this?


Abuse is about power. Thus we see a lot of predators in a position of power. Teachers. Coaches. Politicians. etc..,

What could be more powerful than to be seen by the religious folks as a representative of God?
Imagine the trust and faith of the congregation towards a "man of God."


It isn't surprising to see predators seeking to be in places where they'll have easy access to their prey.
Like - how many pedophiles work in a retirement or nursing home? :)
Thus, it isn't surprising to see many predators wearing frocks.
The Catholic Church is the biggest denomination - therefore, obviously, many predators would prefer to be in it for the simple reason of math: it has the biggest herd of would-be victims!
And they attract predators more because of how they handle abuse. Predators overwhelmingly seem to be protected!
That is my point.



Indeed, I have to agree with you that the Catholic Church had been infiltrated by a cabal of pederasts/pedophiles.
That has been exposed decades ago by an investigative research.


What is abhorrent to me is the seeming complicity of those who had the power to do something, but didn't.
Either they were in on it, as an actual part of the cabal. Or, they were simply complicit.
 
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GOD and Christianity is as much a victim to this.
How many have lost faith in God over this?
How many have blamed God for this?


Abuse is about power. Thus we see a lot of predators in a position of power. Teachers. Coaches. Politicians. etc..,

What could be more powerful than to be seen by the religious folks as a representative of God?
Imagine the trust and faith of the congregation towards a "man of God."


It isn't surprising to see predators seeking to be in places where they'll have easy access to their prey.
Like - how many pedophiles work in a retirement or nursing home? :)
Thus, it isn't surprising to see many predators wearing frocks.
The Catholic Church is the biggest denomination - therefore, obviously, many predators would prefer to be in it for the simple reason of math: it has the biggest herd of would-be victims!
And they attract predators more because of how they handle abuse. Predators overwhelmingly seem to be protected!
That is my point.



Indeed, I have to agree with you that the Catholic Church had been infiltrated by a cabal of pederasts/pedophiles.
That has been exposed decades ago by an investigative research.


What is abhorrent to me is the seeming complicity of those who had the power to do something, but didn't.
Either they were in on it, as an actual part of the cabal. Or, they were simply complicit.
As if Evangelicals aren't guilty of the very same thing you are now throwing stones at the RCC about regarding sexual abuse and a long term history of cover-ups involving sexual abuse against innocent little children within their own Evangelical glass houses. --- Pot --- Meet Mr. Kettle:rolleyes:
 
GOD and Christianity is as much a victim to this.
How many have lost faith in God over this?
How many have blamed God for this?


Abuse is about power. Thus we see a lot of predators in a position of power. Teachers. Coaches. Politicians. etc..,

What could be more powerful than to be seen by the religious folks as a representative of God?
Imagine the trust and faith of the congregation towards a "man of God."


It isn't surprising to see predators seeking to be in places where they'll have easy access to their prey.
Like - how many pedophiles work in a retirement or nursing home? :)
Thus, it isn't surprising to see many predators wearing frocks.
The Catholic Church is the biggest denomination - therefore, obviously, many predators would prefer to be in it for the simple reason of math: it has the biggest herd of would-be victims!
And they attract predators more because of how they handle abuse. Predators overwhelmingly seem to be protected!
That is my point.



Indeed, I have to agree with you that the Catholic Church had been infiltrated by a cabal of pederasts/pedophiles.
That has been exposed decades ago by an investigative research.


What is abhorrent to me is the seeming complicity of those who had the power to do something, but didn't.
Either they were in on it, as an actual part of the cabal. Or, they were simply complicit.
How can god be a victim when he is both omniscient and omnipotent? He knowingly made the priest this way. He knew that they were abusing kids and didn't stop them, even when he could. Your god is no different than Charles Mason.
 
How can god be a victim when he is both omniscient and omnipotent?

One can be a victim in so many ways.
Like I said, how many had lost faith and turned from Him?
How did this hurt Christianity?

Look at all the critics of the Christian faith!
Isn't this issue being used to bash the religion itself?
Some are directly attributing this to Christianity - not to human frailty.




He knowingly made the priest this way. He knew that they were abusing kids and didn't stop them, even when he could.

No, He knows everything.............................but He did not make them this way. :)

Lol - look around you. What's the difference between kids getting abused and kids dying of cancer?
You all say the same thing anyway. GOD LETS IT HAPPEN.
Never mind raising the "kid card." Like as if, humans aren't all equal, and that they don't feel the same pain - regardless of age!

Why don't you just say - God doesn't stop suffering even when He could.


He has His own reasons. But don't think for a minute that He isn't just.


Do your own thing if you ever become God.....or be in the shoes of God.
But right now - you can huff and puff all you want - you can be outraged til you break out in rash.
Or, be humble before your Creator.
That's all a mere creation can do. 🤷




Your god is no different than Charles Mason.



.....and, that rhetoric is no different than many gazillions stupid rhetoric that comes from ignorance.

Lol - that's actually amusing coming from the anti-Gods.
Non-believers like you think they know what God should do, or not do.......and yet, you guys can't even be creative enough to think and give responses other than repeating or rehashing what ignorance you've read somewhere else. :)


What can I say? You're just one among the many who keeps repeating the same ignorant statement. 🤷
 
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The Bible doesn't say anything about keeping your mitts off 15 year old girls. Neither does it say anything about shoving meth up your nose. So maybe this preacher just didn't know any better. You think that maybe it?


Unless the preacher is a complete moronthat he doesn't understand what part of "hurting others," and "our body being the temple of God," does he not understand. 🤷

Lol - everything has be given to him - word for word! "Thou shalt not shove meth up your nose."
Lol- if he's that stupid - he might not understand what "keeping your mitts off 15 year old girls" would actually mean.
He'll think that as long as he's not wearing any mitts - it's okay!
 
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