Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

[Somerville]

This will not end well

Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

The Bundy family of Nevada joined with hard-core militiamen Saturday to take over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 50 miles southeast of Burns for years.

The occupation came shortly after an estimated 300 marchers – militia and local citizens both – paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who are to report to prison on Monday.

 

[David_N]

THE REVOLUTION IS NOW! :lol:

 

[TurtleDude]

THE REVOLUTION IS NOW! :lol:

You see "Under Siege" one too many times.

 

[beerftw]

This will not end well

I can not tell if tru or not, the only sources I could find on google were the link you posted and another link linking to your link, but I can not find any msm news sources, and I know the msm would be all over it,

 

[Somerville]

I can not tell if tru or not, the only sources I could find on google were the link you posted and another link linking to your link, but I can not find any msm news sources, and I know the msm would be all over it,

The site I linked to is the website for the largest newspaper in the state of Oregon so I would call that a MSM news source.

Another link -- Militia occupies Malheur Wildlife Refuge building

ABC News -- Peaceful Protest Followed by Oregon Wildlife Refuge Action - ABC News

Fox 12 News -- for some reason it took some searching to find the story on their site :roll: Oregon ranching case sparks anti-government sentiment - KPTV - FOX 12

 

[beerftw]

The site I linked to is the website for the largest newspaper in the state of Oregon so I would call that a MSM news source.

Another link -- Militia occupies Malheur Wildlife Refuge building

ABC News -- Peaceful Protest Followed by Oregon Wildlife Refuge Action - ABC News

Fox 12 News -- for some reason it took some searching to find the story on their site :roll: Oregon ranching case sparks anti-government sentiment - KPTV - FOX 12

There we go all the links google did not want to find for me. I was kind of skeptical, being a rigth wing militia with bundy in it just sounded way too much like a hacksite hoax to be true at first glance.


But seeing other souces as well, I would say as long as the militia does not actually attack anyone, it will probably end peacefully. The police will block all entrances and exits from the area, to ensure they have no supplies, and force them to hunt and scavange to survive, which will only hold out as long as they have ammo. They would likely surrender before that.

Now if they took the offensive, it would definetaly not end well. It only takes a spark to start a revolution, And even though the police and swat can easily outgun them, the backlash could cause others to try the same stunts. For police they will most likely try to avoid violence and likely try not to instigate other people to join their cause.

 

[Somerville]

There we go all the links google did not want to find for me. I was kind of skeptical, being a rigth wing militia with bundy in it just sounded way too much like a hacksite hoax to be true at first glance.


But seeing other souces as well, I would say as long as the militia does not actually attack anyone, it will probably end peacefully. The police will block all entrances and exits from the area, to ensure they have no supplies, and force them to hunt and scavange to survive, which will only hold out as long as they have ammo. They would likely surrender before that.

Now if they took the offensive, it would definetaly not end well. It only takes a spark to start a revolution, And even though the police and swat can easily outgun them, the backlash could cause others to try the same stunts. For police they will most likely try to avoid violence and likely try not to instigate other people to join their cause.

Here's the story on Oregon Public Radio's site -- Who Wants A Burns, Oregon Standoff? Not The Sheriff, The Ranchers, Or Even Cliven Bundy . News | OPB

A few words from the local sheriff do not give me a lot of hope that this one will end peacefully

Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward said he received death threat emails from people in other states after he told militia organizers he would not create a safe haven for the Hammonds to stay in Harney County.

“I haven’t slept a full night in close to two months now. I have a lot of anxiety,” he said. But Sheriff Ward wants to protect his county.

“What we’ve been threatened with here is civil unrest and the insinuations of armed rebellion,” said Sheriff Ward.

If the Feds do nothing - then the President is a coward, too weak to run this country. If they do go in and take down these nuts - then the President is a dictator, slaughtering "American Patriots"

 

[beerftw]

Here's the story on Oregon Public Radio's site -- Who Wants A Burns, Oregon Standoff? Not The Sheriff, The Ranchers, Or Even Cliven Bundy . News | OPB

A few words from the local sheriff do not give me a lot of hope that this one will end peacefully



If the Feds do nothing - then the President is a coward, too weak to run this country. If they do go in and take down these nuts - then the President is a dictator, slaughtering "American Patriots"

It is a delicate situation, but mere death threats are not enough justification for an assault on the whole group, the backlash will be too great. Heck even during the civil war the union stayed fairly quiet until fort sumter was attacked, and the south attacked because they feared imminent attack from the north stationing troops and supplies, and the north stationed supplies and troops due to fear of imminent attack.


Sometimes it is better to play it out rather than try to intimidate yourself through a situation, I can imagine in many past situations had govt shown some restraint the scenario could have ended with less bloodshed.

 

[Phys251]

I hope these assholes are caught alive and spend a LONG time in prison. So sick of the Bundy troublemakers.

 

[Mason66]

It is a delicate situation, but mere death threats are not enough justification for an assault on the whole group, the backlash will be too great. Heck even during the civil war the union stayed fairly quiet until fort sumter was attacked, and the south attacked because they feared imminent attack from the north stationing troops and supplies, and the north stationed supplies and troops due to fear of imminent attack.


Sometimes it is better to play it out rather than try to intimidate yourself through a situation, I can imagine in many past situations had govt shown some restraint the scenario could have ended with less bloodshed.

That is funny.

The feds had a lot less than that in Waco when they killed everybody.

 

[beerftw]

That is funny.

The feds had a lot less than that in Waco when they killed everybody.

That is quite true but it did not end well for the feds. Janet reno had to call bs on the whole siege, since the only evidence they struck first was audio thatt sounded altered, and all other evidence magically dissapeered and the site was leveled days after, not even long enough for a proper report. It did badly for the reputation of the feds janet reno and the local authorities in waco.

The feds can do the same, but given all the anti cop rhetoric going around about them executing people to pissing off conservative groups, I doubt in this situation they would want to try to start violence. And fyi a militia can get much better support than a cult can like in waco, furthering the cost of assault.

 

[SMTA]

That is funny.

The feds had a lot less than that in Waco when they killed everybody.

Or women and children, as in Ruby Ridge.

 

[Serenity]

They armed themselves, then entered and unlawfully occupied a federal facility and these people are still standing?

How and why are the first two questions that come to mind.

 

[Fiddytree]

Solution: Hippy folk music festival right next door.

 

[calamity]

This will not end well

Two ways to look at this.

1. It's a "peaceful" protest.

2. It's an act of terrorism

 

[Anthony60]

This will not end well

Pretty much the same as "Occupy Wall Street", right? I'm sure the media will champion the cause post haste.

 

[calamity]

Pretty much the same as "Occupy Wall Street", right? I'm sure the media will champion the cause post haste.

It is my understanding that they have not killed anyone yet or fired any shots at cops. So, IMO, we have us here a simple case of civil disobedience, even if they are armed.

Popcorn time.

 

[Somerville]

Pretty much the same as "Occupy Wall Street", right? I'm sure the media will champion the cause post haste.

I fail to see any similarity between an unarmed group of economic protesters and a bunch of radicals who boast about the firepower they possess.

 

[Somerville]

It is my understanding that they have not killed anyone yet or fired any shots at cops. So, IMO, we have us here a simple case of civil disobedience, even if they are armed.

Popcorn time.

Funny when it was a group of armed African Americans, that 'great' icon of American conservatism, Ronald Reagan pushed thru a bill outlawing carrying firearms in public places but today we have 'real' Americans standing up for ----- something.

 

[Phys251]

They armed themselves, then entered and unlawfully occupied a federal facility and these people are still standing?

How and why are the first two questions that come to mind.

Two words: They're white.

Two ways to look at this.

1. It's a "peaceful" protest.

2. It's an act of terrorism

If they're armed, then as far as I'm concerned, they're terrorists.

 

[Lutherf]

They armed themselves, then entered and unlawfully occupied a federal facility and these people are still standing?

How and why are the first two questions that come to mind.

This stems from a situation where a ranch owner and his son lease land from the federal government. They had requested permission to burn off certain invasive grass as a fire break. That permission either never came or was denied but they did the burn anyway. For that crime they were prosecuted and sentenced to prison. One of them did a year and the other did three months. After they were released a panel of appeals judges vacated their previous sentences and resentenced them to 5 year terms.

There are several issues with all of this:
1. Should the preventative burns have been authorized? They live in an area prone to wildfire and maintaining the forest and grassland is very important to the preservation of property.
2. The judge who initially sentenced them ordered incarceration for less than the federal minimum. His reason was that to give these guys five years was a violation of the 8th Amendment.
3. The bottom line here is that this is the result of an ongoing dispute between activist environmentalists and ranchers, loggers and farmers.

I'm not up to speed enough on all the background to offer anything but a brief overview but this is FAR more than a simple case of some "crazy militia" taking over a wildlife refuge.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

There we go all the links google did not want to find for me. I was kind of skeptical, being a rigth wing militia with bundy in it just sounded way too much like a hacksite hoax to be true at first glance.


But seeing other souces as well, I would say as long as the militia does not actually attack anyone, it will probably end peacefully. The police will block all entrances and exits from the area, to ensure they have no supplies, and force them to hunt and scavange to survive, which will only hold out as long as they have ammo. They would likely surrender before that.

Now if they took the offensive, it would definetaly not end well. It only takes a spark to start a revolution, And even though the police and swat can easily outgun them, the backlash could cause others to try the same stunts. For police they will most likely try to avoid violence and likely try not to instigate other people to join their cause.

lol a spark that is comical. No matter what happens the Bundy's are not starting a revolution. They may think they are, just like the occupiers thought they were starting a revolution. But real Americans actually dont want to destroy America.

 

[Chomsky]

This will not end well

So, a couple things jump out:

"Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison."

So, it seems the defendants have no desire nor intention of defying the courts.

"Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined."

And the locals don't want to be involved either.

"We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many different people," he said. "They were not strong enough to make the stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope they will grab onto this and realize that it's been happening."

Ah, now we're getting somewhere! Outsiders with an agenda are swooping in!

"Among those joining Bundy in the occupation are Ryan Payne, U.S. Army veteran, and Blaine Cooper. Payne has claimed to have helped organize militia snipers to target federal agents in a standoff last year in Nevada. He told one news organization the federal agents would have been killed had they made the wrong move."

Wha???

No wonder the principles & locals don't want these guys!

I think it's time the feds addressed the Bundy's, their cause, and their associates. Yes, when you take arms to take-over government facilities talking about killing federal agents, you are terrorists, albeit domestic.

The Bundys and their crowd got away with it once, and rather than learned a lesson they seem to have become more empowered & emboldened. They need to be dealt with.

 

[Fiddytree]

They need to be dealt with.

70% off assorted Duck Dynasty memorabilia.

 

[GPS_Flex]

So, a couple things jump out:

"Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison."

So, it seems the defendants have no desire nor intention of defying the courts.

"Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined."

And the locals don't want to be involved either.

"We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many different people," he said. "They were not strong enough to make the stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope they will grab onto this and realize that it's been happening."

Ah, now we're getting somewhere! Outsiders with an agenda are swooping in!

"Among those joining Bundy in the occupation are Ryan Payne, U.S. Army veteran, and Blaine Cooper. Payne has claimed to have helped organize militia snipers to target federal agents in a standoff last year in Nevada. He told one news organization the federal agents would have been killed had they made the wrong move."

Wha???

No wonder the principles & locals don't want these guys!

I think it's time the feds addressed the Bundy's, their cause, and their associates. Yes, when you take arms to take-over government facilities talking about killing federal agents, you are terrorists, albeit domestic.

The Bundys and their crowd got away with it once, and rather than learned a lesson they seem to have become more empowered & emboldened. They need to be dealt with.

Calling them terrorists is noting but a steaming pile of political hacktivism. All of them will be, and should be, in some serious legal hot water at the end of this but calling them terrorists is really rather moronic.