Military tactics. (1 Viewer)

[teacher]

To GySgt, and all other Jarheads, Grunts, Zoomies and Squids. To all you hardlegs with recent on the ground operational experience.

For me the most important thing I learned in basic training was two man movement. You know, suppressing fire while your partner moves up, finds cover, then suppresses so you can move. Simple. The basics. Years after and out of the service I reiterated this knowledge bestowed upon me while drinking with a Nam vet. He was shocked that I understood such and asked how I came to know and more importantly understand this. I simply told him I was taught this on the two man movement course in basic, and more importantly that it was taught to me by a Nam vet. I took it VERY seriously. Sadly it seemed to pass over the heads of most of my compatriots.

Watching the Military channel recently I was answered a question in the back of my mind for a long time. The tactics of storming a room in an urban environment. First guy in goes near right (or left), clears and the second man clears the other near side. Third man (if going right) covers near right while first man clears far right. Forth man covers near left while second man clears far left. Do I have this correct? Question? When possible is any consideration made to have the first man going right be left handed and the first man going left be right handed. Follow me? If not am I mistaken or would this TACTIC be slightly better? Don't call myself teacher for nothing.

Another concern of mine is while watching a platoon march down a road they seemed spaced too close together. A yard or so apart. Again it seems a sloppy tactic. Also didn't notice all left handed men being on the right side of the road. Have I just grow too civilian soft or are these young men either not thinking or not been properly taught? Say it ain't so Gunny.

Watching some other show I saw a green platoon come under fire. They all hit the dirt, weapons down range. One guy I noticed ate dirt about one foot away from a six inch high by one foot wide rock. That rock may not seem like much but if that were me that rock would be my best friend and deserving a beer from me after action. To the bed wetters this may seem like nit picking but sound tactics are sound tactics. The only thing I can figure is that the Nam vets have retired and the newer guys that should be training others are still on the ground. Please Gunny tell me these simple things and others are matter of course in your platoon and what I witnessed were all anomaly's.

I have many other question like this and am interested to see how fast this thread goes away. My friends recently returned say I'm right and some want to go back just for these kind of reasons. To watch over the kids.

God bless you men.

Free the women. They will remember this.

 

[PatriotSon]

In response to your first question: I have a lot of experience with room clearing. I worked for a special operations unit, and have training in urban warfare and hostage rescue.

If you’re going to do room clearing, use a platoon. Do two man clears. None of this four man entry crap. It’s overkill. If you guys are doing it right, how you stack on the door is what determines who goes what way. Generally the 1 man goes with the flow of the door, the 2 man button hooks. As far as one guy being right handed vs. left, who cares. When you’re in the house you got about a thousand things you have to worry about. Least of which is trying to stack on the door with “handedness” as a consideration.

Now marching down the road I agree with you. It’s a simple fix. Just switch sides. It makes for a much easier time. Just remember, you got a lot more right handed people than left. So you’ll be limited.

As far as micro-terrain goes, I say use it. But, although it is taught to death in the Marines. You really don’t get a sense of how important it is until you’re taking fire. So I guess you’re right on there too.

 

[MSgt]

Room Clearing.

The basics are taught, however, in Iraq (like all places) there is a change. Most of the rooms I've had to clear were small. Too small to move a Fire Team (4) around. Unless you know what is on the otherside of the door, grenades are not an option. You have to be aware of that civillian that might be hiding out of plain fear. What I did was take two men in and leave the rest outside of the door facing outboard to cover either end of the hall way and other unopened doors. The first Marine would go in and scan with his rifle (or pistol) from immediate opposite corner of the door to far corner. The second Marine does the same with the opposite corners. This, of course, takes about a second to perform. If contact is made the Marines inside return fire and hit the deck, because Marines outside the door are coming in. You have to hit with extreme force. This is why I always went in first.

Maximum space between Marines is still enforced on patrols. In urban settings, children like to walk along with you at times. This is where many Marines get complacent and start to bunch up. The Patrol Leader just has to continually watch for this and correct it. Part of patrolling in these settings is winning the Hearts and Minds by walking among the people. It's hard to be friendly and at the same time scanning 360 degrees and waiting to hear that familiar "clack".

For right handers walking on the right side, they have to remain aware of their muzzles. They will be facing inboard, but they know where their responsibilities are. This isn't a problem. It takes only a second to react.

You always use your terrain, but we instill that it is VERY temporary. Marines are best in the offense. In case of ambush, you find cover immediately. Almost immediately after direction is discovered, we become the attackers. "Troops in the defense get picked off."

 

[teacher]

I've read that many IEDs are remote detonated by cell phones. Is a multi freq cellular jammer in the works for patrols?

 

[MSgt]

How interesting you brought that up.

The IEDS are set off by cell phones, garage door openers (clackers"), and radio freqs. There has been reports where our own radio transmissions have set some off before it was intended. An IED blast will almost gaurantee to knock out troops in the forward and vehicle directly behind the target vehicle. Upon an IED explosion, immediate SOP is to look for a "daisy chain" construction. Then depending on where the explosion occurred, half of the convoy (or concious Marines) get on line and sweep through the surrounding areas looking for the clacker or would be ambushers.


There is a company out in Arizona that has developed an IED sweeper that can do "over achieving" things. It has been tested successfully and there are plans in the works to get them over to Iraq ASAP. I was just in a meeting about this (I was just taking notes for my absent Colonel) four weeks ago, so chances are they already have them. I shouldn't say anything more about this.

 

[teacher]

How interesting you brought that up.

It has been tested successfully and there are plans in the works to get them over to Iraq ASAP.

Is this coutry great or what?

I shouldn't say anything more about this.

Blame it on me. I brought it up. And my giant civilian brain came up with this on my own. I am teacher, hear me roar. No mom, I'm not on a porn site. OH God, did I type that out loud.....

 

[teacher]

Here is one to ponder.

I hear from news that many "insurgents" are foreign fighters from Syria and Iran. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think if we wanted to we could shut those borders down tighter than a virgin nun's...oh..I'm not in the basement. Yet we leave the borders open. Can you say lambs to the slaughter? Your thoughts?

 

[teacher]

Do they make Pez.....mmmmm...sweet, tasty Pez...dispensers in the form of Marines? Talk about a can't miss product......

 

[MSgt]

The insurgency is made up of Syrian and Iranian people mostly. There are Palistenian, Egyptian, and Afghani here and there. There are some Iraqi Sunni also that are pissed off that their protector (Saddam) isn't in charge anymore.

This is the problem with the Syrian border. There aren't enough Marines to block the border. When my unit (7th Marines Regiment) was there, our job was to sit in the Al-Anbar Province (aka, Wild West) and repel the insurgency coming from Syria and keep them from getting to Baghdad and other big city type places. We would receive intel from the locals about gatherings where the insurgency is holed up or taken control of small towns and we would go dig them out. The Regiment that replaced us has the same duty. Basically, that means approximately 8,000 Marines guarding an area the size of Utah. It's not impossible, but it is a daunting task. As Iraqi troops get trained (ASAP), they are joining us in the Al-Anbar Province and adding to security. This is why I always say that things will get better sooner than people know it - we just need time and the support of our own people to let us finish what we started. The Al-Anbar Province is the key to security.

I agree with the President about "no increase" in troops. The Iraqi Army needs to continue to believe that they are essentially the true guardians of their own country. We are very serious about their training. I have my own ideas about how to better and more quickly train them that I would like to see.

 

[teacher]

I have my own ideas about how to better and more quickly train them that I would like to see.

Would love to hear them. Word might get out thus circumventing the normal years long process of a good idea making it's way up to the brass and being implemented. After all this thread IS military tactics. Completely on topic.

Also no response to my "lambs to the slaughter question". Hmmmmm.

Keeping with the "I sometimes learn more by what is not said or said once and then quickly hushed theory"-

Meyers or Rummy when asked about the F-22, replied. "It is undergoing operational testing", which I take to mean it is being used on a limited and very careful basis. My question is, "have you seen any?"

Thrust vectoring, super cruise, stealth, can target 100 different objects at over 100 miles, like an Aegis of the sky. That is one bad aircraft. Glad it's ours.

Also, heard anything about a normal field of view, depth perception and color night vision device? That would really make us super masters of the night. As opposed to just plain masters of the night.

 

[MSgt]

Our recruit training is 3 months long. I believe we could use former Marine Corps Drill Instructors that are now combatting and put the Iraqi recruits through a similar training mentality - only cut out all of the admin things and focus on tactical, teamwork, and national pride. Break them down and make them feel like they have achieved something great upon graduation. It would make them stronger and more prideful for what they are fighting for. What we are doing now is similar to this, but without DRILL INSTRUCTORS.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that has submitted this through the proper channels, though.

I haven't seen an F-22. Helicopters and F-18s are what we rely on for close-air support. Once, we were able to get an Army A-10 in for some support.

As far as I know, NVGs are all we got. Your Depth perception is all screwed up and it makes it hell to drive at night, but it's something that you get used to. Special Forces may have something better, but I haven't heard.

 

[teacher]

Why is this?

In Vietnam our pilots had to ignore SAM sites and stick to targets personally approved by McNamara and Democrate LBJ. In Somalia we went into Mogadishu with Blackhawks and nary the Apache. Democrat Les Aspens personal decision. Gulf 1 Generals choose the plan. Gulf 2 Generals chose the plan. Under Republican Presidents. Note the difference in outcomes. Any wonder the majority of military personnel vote Republican?

 

[teacher]

I do low voltage wok. A recent job has made me firmly decide I will always try to make a customer buy a mic with outside CCTV. For military the remote mic is highly under used. Don't bother questioning this until you've spent several nights in a neat situation and you learn your area by sound. I had CCTV and outside motions. But the mic made me feel comfortable. Increase your perimeter by turning up the volume. Thebestthing in guardduty sincesleep.

 

[MSgt]

I do low voltage wok. A recent job has made me firmly decide I will always try to make a customer buy a mic with outside CCTV. For military the remote mic is highly under used. Don't bother questioning this until you've spent several nights in a neat situation and you learn your area by sound. I had CCTV and outside motions. But the mic made me feel comfortable. Increase your perimeter by turning up the volume. Thebestthing in guardduty sincesleep.

What is CCTV and what do you mean by "mic?"

 

[cherokee]

Why is this?

In Vietnam our pilots had to ignore SAM sites and stick to targets personally approved by McNamara and Democrate LBJ. In Somalia we went into Mogadishu with Blackhawks and nary the Apache. Democrat Les Aspens personal decision. Gulf 1 Generals choose the plan. Gulf 2 Generals chose the plan. Under Republican Presidents. Note the difference in outcomes. Any wonder the majority of military personnel vote Republican?

You couldn’t touch a SAM site as it was being built because you would have killed the Russians building it.

As far as the plans look at the men. In G1 you had Schwarzkopf need I say more? He fought tooth and nail to get everything he thought he needed.

 

[cherokee]

I do low voltage wok. A recent job has made me firmly decide I will always try to make a customer buy a mic with outside CCTV. For military the remote mic is highly under used. Don't bother questioning this until you've spent several nights in a neat situation and you learn your area by sound. I had CCTV and outside motions. But the mic made me feel comfortable. Increase your perimeter by turning up the volume. Thebestthing in guardduty sincesleep.

hmm I wouldnt want a mic at home but I can see where it would help in the military but would it also give you away? And if you wear a head set are you not deaf to others who may not be near your mic?
I guees it would work in some areas and not in others

 

[cherokee]

What is CCTV and what do you mean by "mic?"

I'm guessing.......

Closed circuit TV and a listen device like the ones used on the mex borders

 

[MSgt]

hmm I wouldnt want a mic at home but I can see where it would help in the military but would it also give you away? And if you wear a head set are you not deaf to others who may not be near your mic?
I guees it would work in some areas and not in others

Oh I see. I agree. A mic with a headset would be deafening to the entire area. The purpose of an LP (Listening Post) is to sit in the dark and remain focused on a 360 degree perimeter through hearing.

An argument of a directed focus MIC would also hinder the operation. It would train the listener to eventually disregard his conventional hearing and encourage single focus.

 

[cherokee]

Oh I see. I agree. A mic with a headset would be deafening to the entire area. The purpose of an LP (Listening Post) is to sit in the dark and remain focused on a 360 degree perimeter through hearing.

An argument of a directed focus MIC would also hinder the operation. It would train the listener to eventually disregard his conventional hearing and encourage single focus.

In or near a roadway setting I don’t see a use but in remote areas I would see a use for them, maybe help close the gaps in the border areas but then again it could be used against you in order to set up an ambush or trap for the patrol sent out investigate the reason it was set off.
The best would be CCTV or wireless, mic’s and motion detectors along with sniper teams or armed drones. But the old stand by still works too…….Landmines.

 

[teacher]

Just a mic near you and volume boost. Not just at listening posts, all the time, earphones, just walkman stuff I'm saying. It's takes a few days to learn. I swear. It's lke being naked without it. You have to do something about this. I didn't post to debate. Try it. Get some teams to try. Very annoying at first. Soon you're hooked. Then talk.

Like this. No snipe would get near me and I would be cooking chili while hearing him.

 

[teacher]

Oh I see. I agree. A mic with a headset would be deafening to the entire area. The purpose of an LP (Listening Post) is to sit in the dark and remain focused on a 360 degree perimeter through hearing.

An argument of a directed focus MIC would also hinder the operation. It would train the listener to eventually disregard his conventional hearing and encourage single focus.

Nope. It makes you more aware of sound. It's the same sounds any way.


This should put its o you morons can visualize how great this is.

One of het reasons I used to take my shepard growing up with me with my buds when we hit the woods to bake. No one was sneaking up on us cause she heard good. Now you hear like her.


Put yourself in a situation.Three nights in a row hearing all the time. Annoying at first. I'm hooked.