'Military is the Lowest of the Low' says teacher. Should he be Fired Now?

[camlok]

The bombs, V1 and V2 rockets that came in my direction from the Germans wee not 'propaganda' but real live munitions that went off with considerable force.

Of course if you prefer Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan to the Brit and US democracies that is your right.

Nice dodge. The Germans and the Japanese were doing what the Brits and the US kleptocracies had been doing for a long long time. I didn't say it was right but this holier than thou attitude is pure crap. The US and the Brits were right in there stealing poor people's wealth and slaughtering, raping and abusing them.

 

[Fishking]

yes, but not because of his opinion. He should be fired because he is a bully that berates and attacks students.

Yeah...I was trying to figure out exactly how I felt about it. On one hand he's a giant douche and ignorant POS for saying such things about my bothers and sisters in uniform but I also don't like the military being used as a bludgeon to attack one group or another. I came down with "yes" for firing but not because he attacked the military but because he obviously cannot control his own extreme ideology from spilling out of his mouth in influencing impressionable children in such a manner.

 

[Tangmo]

I regard the military as a necessary evil...It represents the worst of the human condition and threatens to annihilate us all.

So, no, in my opinion he should not be fired...Students should be exposed to the reality of the world they live in, not sheltered from those realities...Leave it to the students to accept the teacher's perspective or not.

Only since the weaponizing of nuclear energy and power. Until 1945 civilization was not threatened by the military annihilating us all. While nuclear war would not necessarily disappear all humans and other living things it would level civilization. As to the poll question, the teacher should have been fired long ago for the gross and endlessly repeated violations of the profession.

Excuse me, but military engagement has been killing people and destroying civilizations since day one. Remember Hiroshima? Did you live through the cold war years, under threat of nuclear annihilation...I did..and we still do. Ask the people on Hawaii how they felt a couple weeks ago.

We need to recognize the separation of Day One and Day Two. Kindly see below thx. Yes we remember Hiroshima. Yes the Boomers were the generation that got under its classroom desks with our bums turned toward the windows to save our asses. My first memory of it wuz in second grade. No one needs to travel to Hawaii to ask anyone there although I'd cheerfully take the assignment on the tab of a sponsor.

The military is the right arm of governments...one and the same.

The third quote finally begins to hone in on it a bit. That is, there are several models of the military and society. By society we can also mean government (although the two are not necessarily one).

Throughout history the emperor/king was military commander. It was the long era of Sun Tzu. That is, the only rules were how to do it. "It" was to conquer and rule over yet more land and peoples -- resources.

Since the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648, then Washington, and then again Clausewitz, the ruler and the military commander have increasingly become separate and distinct. In the modern state we have the civilian commander in chief over the military commanders. Or a monarchy such as Britain where the sovereign has set it up in that way. The central point is that war became recognized as civilian state diplomacy by other means. The major powers adopted this civilian control, to include the Russian USSR and PRC. The notion of "just war" is as old as the hills but universal recognition of what just war is didn't occur until WW II. The war destroyed military dictatorship in its most virulent forms. Military dictatorship continues to include coup d'etat but not remotely in any such virulence or global reach.

Under the modern state model civilians decide when to use their armed forces. These civilian rulers are accountable to their populations. The how to do it is established, applied and enforced by civilians. Civilian control and direction of the military includes radical and previously inconceivable notions throughout history of how not to do it. Cursing the military per se not only is cursing the darkness, it is cursing one's self. Me thinks the notion and reality of just war did not culminate or terminate in 1945. At least you'd better hope it did not end then. Moreover, what you may not know is that military commanders nearly everywhere detest nuclear weapons. The obvious reason beyond the moral is practical, i.e., nuclear weapons limit conventional force options that may otherwise succeed. Which drive us in turn closer to having to use nuclear weapons -- like it or not, deliberately or otherwise. The bottom line is that either way civilian rulers will decide or just fumble their way into it.

 

[LadyMoonlight]

BS, shutting down dialog is the totalitarian thing to do. Liberalism is all about openness, learning and the sharing of ideas. Education, healthcare. Science versus dogma...

Conservatives:

Talk of gun control NOT ALLOWED. Gays are sinners not worthy of a wedding cake. End of story. Creationism and or Intelligent design rather than science...END of Story...dogma..

I don't vote for Republicans and conservatives because they tend to think dogmatically. A large part of their voting block is represented by religious fundamentalist thinking...dogma...the Bible is perfect...the founding fathers and their writing -- perfect...to be followed to the letter no matter what. And judges appointed who will make damned sure of it.

(1) I am conservative but follow no religion.

(2) "Sharing of ideas?"....seriously? Try that at an American college or Australian university and see how far you get! Have a different idea to the accepted leftist dogma and they will want you removed from the university. Try teaching something that is not politically correct and see how long one holds their position. Sharing ideas sends lefties to safe spaces, dummies in, tears running.

(3) If a person holds a different idea and does not want to be a hypocrite and go against their ideas so they will not bake a cake for a homosexual couple when that couple can simply say get stuffed and take their business elsewhere, then they are totally destroyed...their reputation, their income, their lives, all because they dared to disagree with what is currently accepted by some to be what one must think and do.

(4) Gun control....we don't have that as an issue here.

(5) Creationism/Intelligent Design: I agree should not to be taught in schools. But if parents want to teach those ideas to their children in their home then not a problem, that's their opinion and belief, but lefties would like even that prevented.

It seems that the right to think and say what you think and believe...free speech...is fine, until one dares to exercise that freedom. You have free speech as long as you don't speak against the accepted politically correct dogma currently in fashion.

I don't know if you know this and I am always surprised at the reaction of Americans when they find out. In Australian schools, Scripture (used to be called Religious Instructions when I went to school so many, many moons ago) is compulsory. Any student who does not want to attend the Scripture classes once a fortnight, can have their parents write a letter to request that their son or daughter not attend and the student is usually sent to the library for the lesson (at least they are in the school I teach at)...this is a state public high school. Scripture is a normal lesson, with report cards during the year. As far as I know, Seniors do not have to attend Scripture classes. At morning Roll Call, Scripture notices are read out along with all the other notices for the day. There is a Scripture Club for students to attend and meeting are advertised around the school. Nobody makes a big deal about it. Every year, people come to the school to issue free bibles to Year 7. Don't want one, don't take one. As I said this is for state run government public schools. When I listen to Americans carry on like 2 bob watches about this, I just figure that us aussies are somewhat more mature concerning the whole thing. Tis just not a big deal. I can almost hear you screaming blue murder about this as I type. I am not a Christian and this just does not bother me, or anyone else in the school. As I said, I am a conservative (very conservative actually) and I am surrounded by lefties as most teachers are lefties and none of this bothers them either. We are simply more grown up about it.

I eagerly await your response and please, don't yell at me. I didn't put the system in place, it was there long before I was born and I am almost 65.

 

[blackjack50]

The bombs, V1 and V2 rockets that came in my direction from the Germans wee not 'propaganda' but real live munitions that went off with considerable force.

Of course if you prefer Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan to the Brit and US democracies that is your right.

The Kaiser was the good guy and the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand was an inside job. And Hitler wasn’t all bad either. America was the real bad guy. They planned both wars to sell their war machines to Europe and get rich.

:roll:

That must have been crazy. I can’t imagine living in fear of rocket attacks.


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[blackjack50]

Nice dodge. The Germans and the Japanese were doing what the Brits and the US kleptocracies had been doing for a long long time. I didn't say it was right but this holier than thou attitude is pure crap. The US and the Brits were right in there stealing poor people's wealth and slaughtering, raping and abusing them.

Yea that is full tilt crazy right there. I bet you believe the assassination of the archduke was an inside job as well? American plot to start the First World War to sell war machines.

:roll:




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[Russell797]

I got some news for you, pal.

If you are genuine in your cooperation and respect with police officers, more often than not, they respond positively.

I've watched a friend of mine get their heads shoved into the asphalt with a rifle at their head, with me right next to them, same situation, and all because instead of following the directions they yelled over the PA, he decided to run into the back of his van "to fetch his pocket copy of The Constitution", because he had no driver's license and felt he had a "sovereign right to move his conveyance upon the land as a free man."
They just wanted him to throw his keys out the window and show his hands.
And that's how we both wound up on the ground with guns to our heads, HIS STUPIDITY and non-cooperation.

I've also been arrested for doing 103 MPH on Hwy 55 in Arkansas by the biggest redneck cop I've ever seen, he could barely fit in his goddam cruiser. But he allowed me to drive home with the groceries my wife and kids needed and leave her the car in case SHE needed it, before he took me to jail. My license was suspended and I had warrants in other states, but it's amazing what a cop will do if you act reasonable, even when you're caught doing 103 in a 65 zone.

All I did to deserve those favors was (A) pull over the moment I saw go by in the other direction, instead of making him chase me, (B) put my keys on the roof and my hands out the window, and (C) say YES SIR and NO SIR when he talked to me, and follow his instructions.

It was only a matter of 30 seconds before he completely calmed down and then THANKED me for being cooperative. He still had to arrest me, but he listened to my story about having just bought groceries with no food in the house and how it was my wife's car and she needed it to take our son to the doctor. He thanked me AGAIN for being cooperative, then followed me home where I explained to my wife that I had to be taken to jail.
He even APOLOGIZED to my wife for having to do it.

Are we learning yet?

You don't have to call me "pal". In the situations you describe the cops are prone to go overboard. We see it on the news frequently...5 cops kicking someone in the head on the ground...Roughing up people. So what if they didn't bend over for the cops...Cops shooting some one to death because they "thought" they were reaching for a gun..No gun found.

When I got harassed, I did nothing to deserve the very unprofessional, threatening verbal abuse I received from a big fat cop sitting in a restaurant parking lot in a driving rain storm...I literally made contact with the vehicle in front of me while parking my car. The cop jumped out and let me have it big time. Threatened to arrest me if I didn't go into the restaurant, get the owner of the other vehicle so they could decide how to proceed.. There was absolutely no damage..I barly touched the bumper. So in I went, stopped at the bar just inside the door to give the license plate number so the party involved could be summoned. The cop thought I was stopping to have a drink and started blasting me in front of everyone...What an embarrassment.

The people left their dinning table, a man and woman, and out we went into the driving rain to look at the car...Nothing of course to do and back in they went soaking wet...What a disgrace...

My wife was pulled over on the highway..License and registration please..Where are you coming from? Home. What did I do officer? No answer.. Cop goes back to his cruiser, makes my wife wait ten minutes and comes back and tells her that if he ever pulls her over again she will never drive in this state again...What did I do officer? No answer. Have a nice day.

 

[Mason66]

I wonder how many young minds he polluted with his hate.

I will be willing to bet that if he loses his job here, he will go back to school to get the certification to teach at the college level where his words will be welcome.

 

[Mason66]

I regard the military as a necessary evil...It represents the worst of the human condition and threatens to annihilate us all.

So, no, in my opinion he should not be fired...Students should be exposed to the reality of the world they live in, not sheltered from those realities...Leave it to the students to accept the teacher's perspective or not.

Should he be fired for hitting a student for "disrupting" the class by sleeping?

I can't think of a less distracting action than sleeping.

 

[Russell797]

Yep, war is evil - who could disagree? - but sometimes it is necessary. When that is the case honour those who fight it on your and my behalf and celebrate their success.

Was the war in Iraq necessary? Viet Nam? Before and during Iraq, the mantra was "support the troops". If you didn't support the war, you by inferrence were not supporting the troops according to the hawks.

Our freedom is at stake we are told...Bull****. Pias platitudes, euphamisms and worn out phrases don't mean squat. They are not reason to annihilate another country for dubious reasons.

 

[American]

I will be willing to bet that if he loses his job here, he will go back to school to get the certification to teach at the college level where his words will be welcome.

I don't think you need certifications to teach at colleges, just their blessing.

 

[Russell797]

Should he be fired for hitting a student for "disrupting" the class by sleeping?

I can't think of a less distracting action than sleeping.

Yes, he could be fired for doing something like that. He could be fired for a lot of his behavior...but not for expressing his opinion on a matter under classroom discussion...

 

[MSgt]

Harassed for no reason...Pulled over for no reason....My wife too. A friend got beaten up badly by two cops over a misunderstanding. No charges filled, but lots of bruises. You had better yes them or else they show you who's boss. It's no wonder so many people don't respect cops, they fear them rather than respect them...I think that's how many cops like it too.

Oh, good grief.

1) Yes, you yes them...because they are the boss. We don't get pulled over for a social visit and cops do not have the luxury of being overly friendly in a situation where one side's natural instinct may be to get aggressively defensive for being pulled over. Besides, after five or six people in the day try to talk themselves out of a ticket, I'm sure the cop's attitude is less patient as he goes through the numbers. So, if you no them...they have to consider an unseen motive behind that verbal no or negative body language and they tend to have to do something about it.

2) People generally "fear" cops because their is a natural anxiety associated with seeing lights in their rear view mirror. It's the "being sent to the principals office" feeling. It is psychological. And law enforcement is the only kind of American that can legally deny you your constitutional right to movement. No military member may do so. That badge means a lot, which makes it all the worse when a cop betrays that trust. But it also commands that you yes them so that they can do their jobs without having to be put in a position to assume the worse from you.

 

[Mason66]

If liberals really believe in a zero tolerance policy on bullying, then they all should agree this teacher should be fired.

Are only students subject to that policy?

 

[MSgt]

I will be willing to bet that if he loses his job here, he will go back to school to get the certification to teach at the college level where his words will be welcome.

College level education requires no certification. You just have to be educated and proficient in your discipline.

You normally have to have at least a Master's Degree (Community), but more commonly a Doctorate (Universities). Though, I have seen one Master's Degree in a university so needing a Doctorate is not absolute. In fact, universities have figured out that you can pay a Master's Degree less to do what their Doctorate do. It comes down to prestige.

He could easily go teach in another school in another state. However, they will know his record when deciding on whether or not hire.

 

[Mason66]

Yes, he could be fired for doing something like that. He could be fired for a lot of his behavior...but not for expressing his opinion on a matter under classroom discussion...

The question in this OP is should he be fired.

You say no even though he bullies his students and assaults them.

His rant against the military was bullying. He made students feel uncomfortable and that should not happen in class.

He specifically singled out the one students uncle and attacked him. You think that is acceptable behavior from a teacher that student has to deal with on a daily basis?

What do you think that student will learn from that abusive teacher from that day forward?

Does the Op say what this mans subject was?

 

[MSgt]

If liberals really believe in a zero tolerance policy on bullying, then they all should agree this teacher should be fired.

Are only students subject to that policy?

It's worse because the teacher is in a position of trust to guide and mold youths into proper adults.

 

[Mason66]

It's worse because the teacher is in a position of trust to guide and mold youths into proper adults.

Yes that is true.

When a teacher is seen as a bully or abusive, the students don't learn anything from him.

They go into class with their guard up expecting the next attack, and learn nothing.

 

[Mason66]

College level education requires no certification. You just have to be educated and proficient in your discipline.

You normally have to have at least a Master's Degree (Community), but more commonly a Doctorate (Universities). Though, I have seen one Master's Degree in a university so needing a Doctorate is not absolute.

He could easily go teach in another school in another state. However, they will know his record when deciding on whether or not hire.

That is what I meant.

I would expect the professor would have to at least as educated as his students.

My point was that his rant would be acceptable at the university level.

 

[MSgt]

Yes that is true.

When a teacher is seen as a bully or abusive, the students don't learn anything from him.

They go into class with their guard up expecting the next attack, and learn nothing.

And they learn to bully and be abusive.

 

[MSgt]

That is what I meant.

I would expect the professor would have to at least as educated as his students.

My point was that his rant would be acceptable at the university level.

That's a misconception that bases in the "liberal professor" myth of college level education. Many students are on G.I. Bill; and department heads enforce a code of conduct. He would be held accountable for his rant.

 

[Russell797]

(1) I am conservative but follow no religion.

(2) "Sharing of ideas?"....seriously? Try that at an American college or Australian university and see how far you get! Have a different idea to the accepted leftist dogma and they will want you removed from the university. Try teaching something that is not politically correct and see how long one holds their position. Sharing ideas sends lefties to safe spaces, dummies in, tears running.

(3) If a person holds a different idea and does not want to be a hypocrite and go against their ideas so they will not bake a cake for a homosexual couple when that couple can simply say get stuffed and take their business elsewhere, then they are totally destroyed...their reputation, their income, their lives, all because they dared to disagree with what is currently accepted by some to be what one must think and do.

(4) Gun control....we don't have that as an issue here.

(5) Creationism/Intelligent Design: I agree should not to be taught in schools. But if parents want to teach those ideas to their children in their home then not a problem, that's their opinion and belief, but lefties would like even that prevented.

It seems that the right to think and say what you think and believe...free speech...is fine, until one dares to exercise that freedom. You have free speech as long as you don't speak against the accepted politically correct dogma currently in fashion.

I don't know if you know this and I am always surprised at the reaction of Americans when they find out. In Australian schools, Scripture (used to be called Religious Instructions when I went to school so many, many moons ago) is compulsory. Any student who does not want to attend the Scripture classes once a fortnight, can have their parents write a letter to request that their son or daughter not attend and the student is usually sent to the library for the lesson (at least they are in the school I teach at)...this is a state public high school. Scripture is a normal lesson, with report cards during the year. As far as I know, Seniors do not have to attend Scripture classes. At morning Roll Call, Scripture notices are read out along with all the other notices for the day. There is a Scripture Club for students to attend and meeting are advertised around the school. Nobody makes a big deal about it. Every year, people come to the school to issue free bibles to Year 7. Don't want one, don't take one. As I said this is for state run government public schools. When I listen to Americans carry on like 2 bob watches about this, I just figure that us aussies are somewhat more mature concerning the whole thing. Tis just not a big deal. I can almost hear you screaming blue murder about this as I type. I am not a Christian and this just does not bother me, or anyone else in the school. As I said, I am a conservative (very conservative actually) and I am surrounded by lefties as most teachers are lefties and none of this bothers them either. We are simply more grown up about it.

I eagerly await your response and please, don't yell at me. I didn't put the system in place, it was there long before I was born and I am almost 65.

I don't know about Australia, but in the U.S. we enjoy, or are supposed to anyway, freedom of religion and from religion. The state can not force feed religious beliefs on the people..There is not supposed to be a state religion. The public schools are an arm of the state. Teaching theocracy as a subject is fine, just no promotion of any religious belief.

I am a liberal and an atheist. There are liberal believers and conservative atheists.

Creationism is not science and should not be offered as a competing alternative to scientific explanations for origins as part of any science curriculum. That does not stop the religious right from try however...

The sharing of ideas is the foundation of modern science...It's what "liberated" western society from the dark ages. Science and education are more of a liberal thing, that's why you notice most educators and scientists are liberals. Only 6% of U.S. research scientists self identify as politically conservative.

Teaching anything other than consensus information is out of place in a academic setting. Opinions are one thing but the currently accepted theories and idea are what is and should be taught. Any uncertainties involved should also be understood as well. Crackpot, politically derived information need not apply.

A teacher or professor can offer personal opinion, but they should not teach un-vetted information as fact. Conservative teachers with their own version of the "truth" have no business teaching in an academic setting...There are no liberal facts and theories or conservative facts and theories...

 

[Zyphlin]

9/11 was an inside job. Point made

We ALL know that it is totally impossible for Arab hijackers to have melted/vaporized steel with jet fuel and office furnishings.....

Moderator's Warning:

This is not the goddamn conspiracy forum and conspiracy theories have nothing to do with this thread. Blackjack, stop baiting him into conspiracy talk by constantly bringing them up and attacking him with them. Camlok, stop derailing this thread by blathering on about various utterly unrelated conspiracies. Topic, get on it, now.

 

[Sweden]

The Kaiser was the good guy and the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand was an inside job. And Hitler wasn’t all bad either. America was the real bad guy. They planned both wars to sell their war machines to Europe and get rich.

:roll:

That must have been crazy. I can’t imagine living in fear of rocket attacks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You've got it. And the Japs were gentle people who did nothing worse than a bit of Origami now and then.

We children of 6, 7 and 8 in London new nothing but war and I think we all took the rockets or granted - I certainly do not remember being scared. Just like combat soldiers 10 or so years older than us we felt invunerable. When a massive V2 landed less than half a mile from us one Sunday morning my reaction was to jump on my bike and go to see the damage.

 

[Russell797]

The question in this OP is should he be fired.

You say no even though he bullies his students and assaults them.

His rant against the military was bullying. He made students feel uncomfortable and that should not happen in class.

He specifically singled out the one students uncle and attacked him. You think that is acceptable behavior from a teacher that student has to deal with on a daily basis?

What do you think that student will learn from that abusive teacher from that day forward?

Does the Op say what this mans subject was?

I would have fired him years ago...but not for merely expressing his perspective to the class. I was responding to that particular aspect of this, in that people here were defending the military and suggesting that everyone should honor and mindlessly respect it.