• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

McCarthy was right:

Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
For fifty years I trust there isn't an educator in either the academy or high schools who hasn't failed to castigate Joe McCarthy as a hate-monger, liar, destroyer of careers, and someone who routinely accused innocent people of wrong doing.

"McCarthyism" has become the reflexive adjective among those on the American Left when accused of anything of less than patriotic motives or, for that matter, taken to task for questionable behavior. McCarthy was not only right, he's been given a bad rap by history.

For four years, from 1950 until 1954, McCarthy was the only voice in America speaking out against those in government that were Communists, fellow-travelers (liberals who believed in but did not join the Communist Party), Russian sympathizers, and Stalin apologists. His enemies, consistent with the Left today, chose to attack the messenger rather than the message.

From the earliest years of the New Deal until the late 1940's the government was deeply infiltrated with Communists and their supporters. There was no shortage of either messages to the President or evidence to support such infiltration. Yet, Roosevelt then Truman chose to ignore such evidence.


http://www.spongobongo.com/em/em9820.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
H

hipsterdufus

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
For fifty years I trust there isn't an educator in either the academy or high schools who hasn't failed to castigate Joe McCarthy as a hate-monger, liar, destroyer of careers, and someone who routinely accused innocent people of wrong doing.

"McCarthyism" has become the reflexive adjective among those on the American Left when accused of anything of less than patriotic motives or, for that matter, taken to task for questionable behavior. McCarthy was not only right, he's been given a bad rap by history.

For four years, from 1950 until 1954, McCarthy was the only voice in America speaking out against those in government that were Communists, fellow-travelers (liberals who believed in but did not join the Communist Party), Russian sympathizers, and Stalin apologists. His enemies, consistent with the Left today, chose to attack the messenger rather than the message.




http://www.spongobongo.com/em/em9820.htm
I await your next post of Hitler's genius and Stalin's heroicism. Good grief! :roll:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
hipsterdufus said:
I await your next post of Hitler's genius and Stalin's heroicism. Good grief! :roll:
So in other words you could not refute what he posted (which is factual) and can only offer hyperbole?

So was McCarthy wrong in the House Unamerican Activities Committe Hearings which investigated Hollywood?
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
McCarthy was more than the messenger and it's incorrect to label him as such. He was an instigator, a perpetrator, and a jerk.
Just how many did McCarthy catch? Darn few. Of the 10,000 government employees who were exposed as Communists, security risks, or of questionable loyalty and lost their jobs, at the least, only forty can be attributed to McCarthy.
"Only forty" people? I'm sorry, one is too many. In his rabid plight to get rid of communism and its companion dictatorship model, he sure created one of the views he despised. This is America. Should folks want to be communists, sympathisize with Communism, elect or run as a Communist for a government position. They should be allowed to. Don't like people to have other points of view that aren't like your own? Fine. But running them out of the country, out of their jobs, and investigating them like criminals under the auspices of justice? That's not American.
 

Pacridge

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
9
Location
Pacific Northwest US
shuamort said:
McCarthy was more than the messenger and it's incorrect to label him as such. He was an instigator, a perpetrator, and a jerk.

"Only forty" people? I'm sorry, one is too many. In his rabid plight to get rid of communism and its companion dictatorship model, he sure created one of the views he despised. This is America. Should folks want to be communists, sympathisize with Communism, elect or run as a Communist for a government position. They should be allowed to. Don't like people to have other points of view that aren't like your own? Fine. But running them out of the country, out of their jobs, and investigating them like criminals under the auspices of justice? That's not American.

Yeah, but it was only 40 guy's...who cares how many he scared into not speaking their minds or expressing themselves freely?
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,344
Reaction score
7,210
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
shuamort said:
McCarthy was more than the messenger and it's incorrect to label him as such. He was an instigator, a perpetrator, and a jerk.

"Only forty" people? I'm sorry, one is too many. In his rabid plight to get rid of communism and its companion dictatorship model, he sure created one of the views he despised. This is America. Should folks want to be communists, sympathisize with Communism, elect or run as a Communist for a government position. They should be allowed to. Don't like people to have other points of view that aren't like your own? Fine. But running them out of the country, out of their jobs, and investigating them like criminals under the auspices of justice? That's not American.
I absolutely agree, and look with disgust upon those who constantly use communist a word of attack on someone. There are plenty of people with communist-like views on one thing or another. I believe without people of all different opinions on politics, we would be a real ****-hole of a country, setting aside the fact that its America, and we have the right to free speech and free press and can say and print whatever we want to as long as it isn't a lie (or inside info that puts our soldiers at risk in a time of war).

Now some retard is going to twist what ive just said around to say I support a communist america and im a nazi or something, cause thats what they do.
 

mixedmedia

iniquitably employed
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
373
Location
Naples, FL
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Stinger said:
So in other words you could not refute what he posted (which is factual) and can only offer hyperbole?

So was McCarthy wrong in the House Unamerican Activities Committe Hearings which investigated Hollywood?

Ummmmm....let me see if I can answer this without the offending hyperbole.

Yes.
 
H

hipsterdufus

Stinger said:
So in other words you could not refute what he posted (which is factual) and can only offer hyperbole?

So was McCarthy wrong in the House Unamerican Activities Committe Hearings which investigated Hollywood?
This is like taking the time to debate people who believe the Holocaust didn't exist. It's a waste of my time.
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
So in other words you could not refute what he posted (which is factual) and can only offer hyperbole?

So was McCarthy wrong in the House Unamerican Activities Committe Hearings which investigated Hollywood?
Yes, of course he was.
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
For four years, from 1950 until 1954, McCarthy was the only voice in America speaking out against those in government that were Communists, fellow-travelers (liberals who believed in but did not join the Communist Party), Russian sympathizers, and Stalin apologists. His enemies, consistent with the Left today, chose to attack the messenger rather than the message.
McCarthy turned his "investigation" into a "commie" witch hunt. I don't support anything that went on during that period. Especially the fact that people could get in trouble for even suggesting that communism might be a good idea.
 

26 X World Champs

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
hipsterdufus said:
This is like taking the time to debate people who believe the Holocaust didn't exist. It's a waste of my time.
Well said! This is yet another in a continuing series of threads meant to stir up hate in this community.

I actually think this thread is even dopier than the twisted thread re Kerry's words re Iraq, but I think we must all consider the source.
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Really?

Do you ever consider what our country would be like without his voice? While I certainly can't agree with all of his rhetoric, I can see what kind of terror, what kind of sleeper cell, he exposed in our country, and Hollywood being a great start! Is America burning? No, but France is. Is America beating Muslims in the street? No but Australia is. Do we ever get any credit for our tolerance? No, but we continue to lead by example, and this man certainly paved the way for that reality. He demanded excellence, and there is nothing wrong with that, the way in which he tried to get there....of course there were many mistakes in that approach. Just try to remember why we are all here, talking safely on the internet of all places, some still can't participate! I am not giving him any credit for that, but men like him, they were all important, and all deserve their place in history.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
shuamort said:
McCarthy was more than the messenger and it's incorrect to label him as such. He was an instigator, a perpetrator, and a jerk.

"Only forty" people? I'm sorry, one is too many. In his rabid plight to get rid of communism and its companion dictatorship model, he sure created one of the views he despised. This is America. Should folks want to be communists, sympathisize with Communism, elect or run as a Communist for a government position. They should be allowed to. Don't like people to have other points of view that aren't like your own? Fine. But running them out of the country, out of their jobs, and investigating them like criminals under the auspices of justice? That's not American.

Agreed being a communist is not a crime but treason is here's some people working within the government whose allegiance was not to their own country but to the Soviet Union who were exposed when the Soviet Union collapsed and and Venona intercepts were declassified:

Just who was exposed by these documents. Alger Hiss who had been the number three man at State behind Dean Acheson and Dean Rusk, and who, most assuredly, at some point, would have eventually been Secretary of State. Harry Dexter White, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, who purposely withheld allocated funding for the Chinese Nationalists, during their Civil War, that destroyed their currency and, thus, their efforts against Mao's Communists.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
26 X World Champs said:
Well said! This is yet another in a continuing series of threads meant to stir up hate in this community.

I actually think this thread is even dopier than the twisted thread re Kerry's words re Iraq, but I think we must all consider the source.
politics 101 divide and conquer, I've seen a huge amount of Bush bashing and calling people evil neo-cons on this site, this is half the problem with liberals, they can dish it out but can't take it.

The fact of the matter is is that McCarthy was right there were Soviet infiltratrators and traitors in the highest eschalons of our government, instead of turning this into a partisan issue why don't you try to refute the facts which have been uncovered by the declassification of the Venona files and the opening up of Russian files after the fall of the Soviet Union? Probably because you can't because it's true.
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,344
Reaction score
7,210
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
politics 101 divide and conquer, I've seen a huge amount of Bush bashing and calling people evil neo-cons on this site, this is half the problem with liberals, they can dish it out but can't take it.

The fact of the matter is is that McCarthy was right there were Soviet infiltratrators and traitors in the highest eschalons of our government, instead of turning this into a partisan issue why don't you try to refute the facts which have been uncovered by the declassification of the Venona files and the opening up of Russian files after the fall of the Soviet Union? Probably because you can't because it's true.
There is no doubt that the Treasonous acts were wrong, on whoever's part.

But to go on a political witch hunt and start accusing everyone of having communist sympathies who have done nothing wrong, and didn't intend on doing anything wrong, IS WRONG... this is America, not 17th Century England, they can say and have sympathies to whoever they want as long as they do not provide intelligence (which I already mentioned those who did were wrong), and as long as they did not give aid, not this crappy "giving aid to the enemy" that current republicans try to manipulate a withdrawl scenario to, but REAL aid, through actually giving them stuff. I disagree that "Mental Aid" or doing something that MAY give them a boost in morale is treason.

The issue that "liberals" have with McCarthy is his blatent disrespect for the constitution of the United States.......it has nothing to do with what many conservatives try to make us out to be... being dirty commie bastards and nazis or some more retarded stuff like that.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Caine said:
There is no doubt that the Treasonous acts were wrong, on whoever's part.

But to go on a political witch hunt and start accusing everyone of having communist sympathies who have done nothing wrong, and didn't intend on doing anything wrong, IS WRONG... this is America, not 17th Century England, they can say and have sympathies to whoever they want as long as they do not provide intelligence (which I already mentioned those who did were wrong), and as long as they did not give aid, not this crappy "giving aid to the enemy" that current republicans try to manipulate a withdrawl scenario to, but REAL aid, through actually giving them stuff. I disagree that "Mental Aid" or doing something that MAY give them a boost in morale is treason.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Yep you're right that's called sedition and in my opinion is just as bad as treason.

The issue that "liberals" have with McCarthy is his blatent disrespect for the constitution of the United States.......it has nothing to do with what many conservatives try to make us out to be... being dirty commie bastards and nazis or some more retarded stuff like that.
I'm not agreeing with McCarthy's tactics but the fact still remains that he was correct in his assertions that the U.S. government was infiltrated by agents of the Soviet Union whose allegiance was not to the U.S..
 

26 X World Champs

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
7,536
Reaction score
429
Location
Upper West Side of Manhattan (10024)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Just who was exposed by these documents. Alger Hiss who had been the number three man at State behind Dean Acheson and Dean Rusk, and who, most assuredly, at some point, would have eventually been Secretary of State..
Ahh...the continuing twisting of the truth to justify this hatefilled thread. I knew Alger Hiss, he was a friend of my family. He was railroaded by the FBI! Read this!
As a result of a Freedom of Information Act suit by Hiss, it was revealed in 1975 that:

1) an FBI agent knowingly committed perjury at the Hiss trial, testifying it was impossible to forge a document by typewriter,

2) the FBI knew that the typewriter introduced as evidence at the trial could not have been the Hiss typewriter, but withheld this information from Hiss, and

3) the FBI had an informer, Horace W. Schmahl, a private detective who was hired by the Hiss defense team, who reported on the Hiss defense strategy to the government.


Other information which had been withheld from Hiss and his lawyers included the FBI's knowledge of Chambers' homosexuality and the intensive FBI surveillance of Hiss, which included phone taps and mail openings, none of which showed any indication that Hiss was a spy or a Communist.

As for the "Pumpkin Papers," the five rolls of microfilm that Nixon had described as evidence of the "most serious series of treasonable activities … in the history of America," the FOIA releases showed one roll of microfilm was completely blank, and information on two rolls of microfilm were largely not only unclassified but were about topics such as life rafts and fire extinguishers, information which was easily obtainable at any time from the open shelves at the Bureau of Standards.

After the FOIA disclosures, Hiss was readmitted to the bar in Massachusetts in 1975, without the usual admission of guilt or expression of remorse, which is usually requrired when a disbarred lawyer is readmitted. The Supreme Court, which by this time contained several Nixon appointments, including Chief Justice Warren Burger, refused to nullify the Hiss perjury conviction, thus preventing the exoneration Hiss had sought.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alger_Hiss

Ironically, this thread is so absurd that the Hiss saga is an excellent example of how people in this community use hate and/or fear mongering to justify the absurdity of their threads. This is a perfect example.
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
galenrox said:
Do you have any proof that all the things not going wrong are because of McCarthy?
The fact of the matter is he was prosecuting people for holding opinions. You know full well that I hate communism at least as much as you do, but prosecuting them is ridiculous. It's funny someone who was just arguing about the violation of Ann Coulter's freedom of speech is now arguing for a man who not only persecuted people for what they said, but also what someone said they said, or what they might have said, or something they might think.
I think I clearly pointed out his character defects, you cherry picked my post well, thanks Dick.;)
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Agreed being a communist is not a crime but treason is here's some people working within the government whose allegiance was not to their own country but to the Soviet Union who were exposed when the Soviet Union collapsed and and Venona intercepts were declassified:

Just who was exposed by these documents. Alger Hiss who had been the number three man at State behind Dean Acheson and Dean Rusk, and who, most assuredly, at some point, would have eventually been Secretary of State. Harry Dexter White, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, who purposely withheld allocated funding for the Chinese Nationalists, during their Civil War, that destroyed their currency and, thus, their efforts against Mao's Communists.
Yes, a spy hunt is good. But the line is very thick where that ends and investigating Hollywood begins. They could have been pumping out "Hooray for Mao!" with Mamie Van Doren or "Better Red than Dead" with Jimmy Stewart and it's none of the government's damn business.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
shuamort said:
Yes, a spy hunt is good. But the line is very thick where that ends and investigating Hollywood begins. They could have been pumping out "Hooray for Mao!" with Mamie Van Doren or "Better Red than Dead" with Jimmy Stewart and it's none of the government's damn business.
Well I never said that I agreed with McCarthy's tactics did I? However, the fact remains that McCarthy was right about the government being infiltrated by Soviet agents.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Well I never said that I agreed with McCarthy's tactics did I?
Nope, but I never claimed you did either.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
However, the fact remains that McCarthy was right about the government being infiltrated by Soviet agents.
If he would have stopped there, he would have been a hero.
 

TimmyBoy

Banned
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
1,466
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
For fifty years I trust there isn't an educator in either the academy or high schools who hasn't failed to castigate Joe McCarthy as a hate-monger, liar, destroyer of careers, and someone who routinely accused innocent people of wrong doing.

"McCarthyism" has become the reflexive adjective among those on the American Left when accused of anything of less than patriotic motives or, for that matter, taken to task for questionable behavior. McCarthy was not only right, he's been given a bad rap by history.

For four years, from 1950 until 1954, McCarthy was the only voice in America speaking out against those in government that were Communists, fellow-travelers (liberals who believed in but did not join the Communist Party), Russian sympathizers, and Stalin apologists. His enemies, consistent with the Left today, chose to attack the messenger rather than the message.

From the earliest years of the New Deal until the late 1940's the government was deeply infiltrated with Communists and their supporters. There was no shortage of either messages to the President or evidence to support such infiltration. Yet, Roosevelt then Truman chose to ignore such evidence.


http://www.spongobongo.com/em/em9820.htm



I thought I would never see the day in this country where somebody would say "McCarthy was right." That is a scary indicator of how things are and the possibility of more to come.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
20,915
Reaction score
546
Location
We can't stop here this is bat country!
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
TimmyBoy said:
I thought I would never see the day in this country where somebody would say "McCarthy was right." That is a scary indicator of how things are and the possibility of more to come.
I love the fact that after hearing this people are left with no other option but to kill the messenger with add hominem attacks rather than to tackle the veracity of the article.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
TimmyBoy said:
I thought I would never see the day in this country where somebody would say "McCarthy was right." That is a scary indicator of how things are and the possibility of more to come.
Did you ever think you'd see the day in this country when a college professor tells one of their students the troops should shoot their superiors?

Did you ever think you'd see the day in this country when a moviemaker would compare people that intentionally blow up civilians with Minutemen?

Did you ever think you'd see the day in this country when another college professor says that the victims in the WTC were "little Eichmanns"?

Did you ever think you'd see the day when a US Senator would compare our troops to Nazis and Pol Pot?

Did you ever think you'd see the day when half of Congress chooses immediate political gain over long-term security?
 

mixedmedia

iniquitably employed
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
373
Location
Naples, FL
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Deegan said:
I think I clearly pointed out his character defects, you cherry picked my post well, thanks Dick.;)

I don't think he cherry picked your post. He's questioning the bulk of your post that purports some pretty vast assumptions about the "legacy" of Joe McCarthy. Why shouldn't he question that? I do.
 
Top Bottom