Maybe we actually do something this time?

[Rucker61]

So what are these proposals that will cost far less?

And do we continue to ignore the actual criminals to avoid those costs?

 

[vegas giants]

And do we continue to ignore the actual criminals to avoid those costs?

Arrest anyone you like.....just pay for it

 

[vegas giants]

So what are these proposals that will cost far less?

Universal background checks with registration, licensing of guns and ammo and mandatory training

 

[BretJ]

Universal background checks with registration, licensing of guns and ammo and mandatory training

One of the reasons Canada dropped long gun registration was the exorbitant costs and over runs. That was on a scale far smaller than trying to register at least 300,000 firearms. Add to that cost of enforcement, cost of training, cost of prosecution and incarceration etc. You would still most likely have the same cost issues.

 

[vegas giants]

One of the reasons Canada dropped long gun registration was the exorbitant costs and over runs. That was on a scale far smaller than trying to register at least 300,000 firearms. Add to that cost of enforcement, cost of training, cost of prosecution and incarceration etc. You would still most likely have the same cost issues.

They did not drop the handgun registration (which would be fine with me to just have that at first). Why?

 

[DasTrev]

Can we finally ban heavy assault weapons.

What do you think a "heavy assault weapon" is?

Can we finally close the Gun show loophole.

There is no loophole, this has been debunked many times.

Can we finally have universal background checks and waiting periods. etc.

Huh? Everyone has to have a background check, unless the firearm is sold illegally. I'm not saying selling firearms illegally, so don't take it the wrong way.

 

[BretJ]

They did not drop the handgun registration (which would be fine with me to just have that at first). Why?

The costs would be exorbitant with that measure alone. UBC would not cost much more than BC does now but once again, you would have the very same issues with cost of enforcement, investigations, prosecution and incarceration.

 

[Oozlefinch]

and as you noted, won't affect illegal sales.

Absolutely no laws "stop" any illegal activity.

Rape is illegal, yet people still commit rape. Murder is illegal, yet people still commit murder.

All laws to is put in place a punishment for when people do violate the law.

 

[vegas giants]

The costs would be exorbitant with that measure alone. UBC would not cost much more than BC does now but once again, you would have the very same issues with cost of enforcement, investigations, prosecution and incarceration.

Yet Canada and most of Europe and many other countries already do it. If it can't be done.....how do they get it done?

 

[vegas giants]

Absolutely no laws "stop" any illegal activity.

Rape is illegal, yet people still commit rape. Murder is illegal, yet people still commit murder.

All laws to is put in place a punishment for when people do violate the law.

Like the law you need a passport?

 

[DasTrev]

The pro gun zealots actually want this.

More shootings = more gun sales.

Strict gun control could have been implemented years ago. The public wants it, America needs it however it is bad for business.

More shootings = more gun sales because people don't want to be shot up by a shooter, they want to defend themselves from the shooter. Strict maniac control should have been implemented years ago.

 

[jaeger19]

They did not drop the handgun registration (which would be fine with me to just have that at first). Why?

Politics.

The research shows that though Canada has handgun registration and severely limits the purchase of handguns.. the preferred weapon of criminals in Canada is.. wait of it handguns..

So why would anyone claim that handgun registration in Canada is "effective".?

 

[vegas giants]

Politics.

The research shows that though Canada has handgun registration and severely limits the purchase of handguns.. the preferred weapon of criminals in Canada is.. wait of it handguns..

So why would anyone claim that handgun registration in Canada is "effective".?

You are kidding ....right? Name a first world country anywhere in the world where if a handgun is not the first choice for criminals. This is hilarious.

 

[DasTrev]

Absolutely no laws "stop" any illegal activity.

Rape is illegal, yet people still commit rape. Murder is illegal, yet people still commit murder.

All laws to is put in place a punishment for when people do violate the law.

Exactly, say if ALL guns were banned and were confiscated by the government, it won't stop murder, it won't stop guns from being in the hands of civilians, there will always be guns in the hands of civilians. Even if it's illegal, you cannot stop crime it's literally impossible. It's impossible to take guns away completely.

If anything is phrased oddly just ignore it, I'm not exactly the best at phrasing things. I'm sure you get my point.

 

[vegas giants]

Exactly, say if ALL guns were banned and were confiscated by the government, it won't stop murder, it won't stop guns from being in the hands of civilians, there will always be guns in the hands of civilians. Even if it's illegal, you cannot stop crime it's literally impossible. It's impossible to take guns away completely.

If anything is phrased oddly just ignore it, I'm not exactly the best at phrasing things. I'm sure you get my point.

We don't need a perfect system....just a better one

 

[DasTrev]

We don't need a perfect system....just a better one

I agree, but we don't need our guns taken away.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Exactly, say if ALL guns were banned and were confiscated by the government, it won't stop murder, it won't stop guns from being in the hands of civilians, there will always be guns in the hands of civilians. Even if it's illegal, you cannot stop crime it's literally impossible. It's impossible to take guns away completely.

If anything is phrased oddly just ignore it, I'm not exactly the best at phrasing things. I'm sure you get my point.

Interesting thing about confiscation laws. They are only effective for a very short amount of time.

In Australia there has been a dramatic reduction in firearm related deaths. However, the death rate has largely remained flat. Fluctuating by only a percentage point or two. This is because the weapon of choice had returned to knives and bats. Murders did not stop, only the weapon used.

And in the last few years has seen a rapid increase worldwide of car murders. Australia had one earlier this year where 6 people were killed. We have also seen this in the US with 9 killed in 2 separate attacks in New York this year.

And I find even the concept of prohibition on something that is protected outright in the Bill of Rights in our constitution a huge step on the road to potential totalitarianism. Because if that is removed, what next? The right to assemble, as it creates more targets? So yea, ban that as a form of public safety. Then let's ban that Freedom of Speech, to stop all the "fake news" from both sides.

Yea, I see no need for the 3rd Amendment. After all, how often is there quartering of soldiers in houses? So get rid of that. And BTW, once done we are gonna put soldiers in every multi-unit dwelling, as an anti-terrorism measure, you know?

This is why I am one of those who is highly against major changes to the Constitution, and pretty much 100% any changes to the Bill of Rights. Because once those are changed for one instance, it becomes easier to make further changes.

 

[DasTrev]

Interesting thing about confiscation laws. They are only effective for a very short amount of time.

In Australia there has been a dramatic reduction in firearm related deaths. However, the death rate has largely remained flat. Fluctuating by only a percentage point or two. This is because the weapon of choice had returned to knives and bats. Murders did not stop, only the weapon used.

And in the last few years has seen a rapid increase worldwide of car murders. Australia had one earlier this year where 6 people were killed. We have also seen this in the US with 9 killed in 2 separate attacks in New York this year.

And I find even the concept of prohibition on something that is protected outright in the Bill of Rights in our constitution a huge step on the road to potential totalitarianism. Because if that is removed, what next? The right to assemble, as it creates more targets? So yea, ban that as a form of public safety. Then let's ban that Freedom of Speech, to stop all the "fake news" from both sides.

Yea, I see no need for the 3rd Amendment. After all, how often is there quartering of soldiers in houses? So get rid of that. And BTW, once done we are gonna put soldiers in every multi-unit dwelling, as an anti-terrorism measure, you know?

This is why I am one of those who is highly against major changes to the Constitution, and pretty much 100% any changes to the Bill of Rights. Because once those are changed for one instance, it becomes easier to make further changes.

Exactly.

 

[BretJ]

Yet Canada and most of Europe and many other countries already do it. If it can't be done.....how do they get it done?

How do they manage to enforce their laws and we dont? How do they get it done?

 

[BretJ]

Like the law you need a passport?

Does the law prescribe punishment or charge for trying to enter the country without one?

 

[vegas giants]

I agree, but we don't need our guns taken away.

I agree with that too....unless you shouldn't have one

 

[vegas giants]

Does the law prescribe punishment or charge for trying to enter the country without one?

It sure does. My point is that a passport helps prevent illegal immigration just like a gun license can help prevent prohibited persons from owning guns

 

[vegas giants]

How do they manage to enforce their laws and we dont? How do they get it done?

Do they? Show me. We incarcerate more people per capita than anyone else on earth. Show me a country that is doing it better

 

[BretJ]

Do they? Show me. We incarcerate more people per capita than anyone else on earth. Show me a country that is doing it better

For gun laws?? A large number are incarcerated for non-violent drug possession charges. I point out your solutions would be just as cost prohibitive and your defense is other countries do it. So in that regard, how do they manage to enforce their current laws if the costs are prohibitive as you say?

 

[vegas giants]

For gun laws?? A large number are incarcerated for non-violent drug possession charges. I point out your solutions would be just as cost prohibitive and your defense is other countries do it. So in that regard, how do they manage to enforce their current laws if the costs are prohibitive as you say?

Its a myth that we have large numbers of people in prison for drug possession. Here is one source but I have tons more

Five myths about prison growth.