Maybe Tim Walz is the leader of the Dems?

[Gatsby]

The policy of defunding police is ACTUALLY good, since it reallocates funding to areas that police are not equipped to handle (police themselves will tell you that). You just need to have a politician who isn't afraid of standing up to right-wing messaging tactics. 'No sex change for minors' is SOOO ****ing lazy. You really are a right-wing reactionary.

One of those Democrats who you characterize as "enacting Republican policies." That is to say, the ones who actually win elections.

You can't sit at the Democrats lunch table. Maybe try the DSA table.

 

[Dans La Lune]

"Defund the police" is a slogan advocating for reallocating funds from police departments to non-policing forms of public safety and community support initiatives such as social services, youth programs, housing, education, and healthcare. The goals of those using the slogan vary; some support modest budget reductions, while others advocate for full divestment as part of a broader effort to abolish contemporary policing systems.

Proponents of defunding police departments argue that investing in community-based programs can more effectively address the root causes of crime, such as poverty, homelessness, and mental health conditions, thereby serving as a better deterrent. They also highlight that police officers are often unqualified to handle mental health emergencies, leading to potentially violent outcomes.

Defunding the police is not about abolishing the police force entirely but rather reducing the number of responsibilities assigned to the police and decreasing police budgets to match the reduced size of the police force, with funds being used to invest in programs and staff trained to address mental health crises, struggling schools, and other social issues.'

...

'According to a study that conducted a retrospective chart review of a U.S. national pediatric surgical database, only 108 trans minors had received any form of gender-affirming surgery over four years (2018-2021), accounting for 0.04% of all transgender youth nationwide.

Gender-affirming surgeries are rarely performed on transgender minors. For teens ages 15 to 17, the rate of undergoing gender-affirming surgery with a TGD-related diagnosis was 2.1 per 100,000.

The study also found no gender-affirming surgeries performed on TGD youth ages 12 and younger in 2019, which aligns with current international guidelines that do not suggest any medical or surgical intervention for TGD individuals prior to puberty.

It is also important to note that the number of minors undergoing gender-affirming surgeries is exceedingly rare, with fewer than 3,700 performed in the U.S. on patients ages 12 to 18 from 2016 through 2019.'

---

That a DEMOCRAT would succumb to these talking points shows how sad a state the party is in.

 

[braindrain]

Clinton, a scandal-ridden sexual predator. Obama was definitely moderate, although he RAN as a progressive. He gave us Trump. And Biden gave us Trump 2.0.



They all enacted Republican policies.

Ahh so you just deny reality.

Ok. Have fun with the.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Ahh so you just deny reality.

Ok. Have fun with the.

Well, they did. The most progressive policy agenda was Obamacare, aka Romneycare, which came out of the Heritage Foundation. Gatsby would be more inline with Joe Manchin, for example. That's the kind of moderation he champions. Corporate hackery, which is overwhelmingly unpopular.

Joe Manchin Among America’s Most Unpopular Senators

Meanwhile, fellow red-state Democrat Jon Tester of Montana is among the country's most popular senators

pro.morningconsult.com

 

[Phys251]

I'm sure Dems will continue to learn nothing, attain power, suffer the impacts of Trump's policies while in office (doing little / nothing to reverse them) and get thrown out of office again like the bums they are.

If the anti-Democratic progs hurt us again, sure.

 

[Dans La Lune]

If the anti-Democratic progs hurt us again, sure.

You can always appeal to the right-wing and get their vote. Like Gatsby wants. How has that worked out?

 

[Phys251]

You can always appeal to the right-wing and get their vote. Like Gatsby wants. How has that worked out?

And there's the defensiveness. Right on cue.

The pendulum has swung back and forth. We won in 2008, 2012, and 2020; and we lost in 2016 and 2024. If the righties will let us vote and the anti-Democratic progs will actually show up, we can win again in 2028.

 

[Dans La Lune]

And there's the defensiveness. Right on cue.

The pendulum has swung back and forth. We won in 2008, 2012, and 2020; and we lost in 2016 and 2024. If the righties will let us vote and the anti-Democratic progs will actually show up, we can win again in 2028.

Dems lost their Super Majorities (after passing Republican healthcare) in 2010. Then Obama beat Romney, a weak Republican. Then we got Trump. Then we got Biden, who promised to save us from Trump. Then we got Trump.

Why do Dems keep losing power after achieving very little (if anything), while Republicans continue to make massive gains? The pendulum is not swinging left and right. It's swinging center and far-right.

And buddy, you just accused "ANTI-DEMOCRATIC PROGS" of hurting you. Don't throw elbows unless you want a response.

 

[Phys251]

Dems lost their Super Majorities (after passing Republican healthcare) in 2010. Then Obama beat Romney, a weak Republican. Then we got Trump. Then we got Biden, who promised to save us from Trump. Then we got Trump.

Why do Dems keep losing power after achieving very little (if anything), while Republicans continue to make massive gains? The pendulum is not swinging left and right. It's swinging center and far-right.

And buddy, you just accused "ANTI-DEMOCRATIC PROGS" of hurting you. Don't throw elbows unless you want a response.

Instead of getting defensive, again, why don't progressives for once learn why they're struggling to win friends and influence people. Maybe start with that tone you just used.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Instead of getting defensive, again, why don't progressives for once learn why they're struggling to win friends and influence people. Maybe start with that tone you just used.

You just started out by blaming progressives (as you always do). Look inward to the tactics you engage in and to the failures of the people you vote for and support OVER progressives. Don't project your failure on to others, because I wasn't apart of your losing coalition in 2024.

I'd be open to Tim Walz, the only thing remotely good about the Kamala campaign. I'd start there as a basis for agreement.

 

[Phys251]

You just started out by blaming progressives (as you always do). Look inward to the tactics you engage in and to the failures of the people you vote for and support OVER progressives. Don't project your failure on to others, because I wasn't apart of your losing coalition in 2024.

^ Hypocrisy. Try holding yourself to the same standard that you demand in others.

I'd be open to Tim Walz, the only thing remotely good about the Kamala campaign. I'd start there as a basis for agreement.

Maybe. I think we're going to have a wide open primary in 2028. Right now my money is on a dark horse candidate to become our nom.

 

[Dans La Lune]

^ Hypocrisy. Try holding yourself to the same standard that you demand in others.

I did and do, that's why I didn't vote for Kamala. And from the looks of it, I'm the only progressive on these forums who didn't vote for Kamala. The burden of proof is on you that my vote was the deciding factor, and/or that can vote-shaming is more effective than reaching out to progressives rather than Cheney / Manchin conservatives.

Maybe. I think we're going to have a wide open primary in 2028. Right now my money is on a dark horse candidate to become our nom.

I will bet anything that a moderate corporate centrist is the nominee, because Dems are nothing if not predictably stupid and self-sabotaging. That's why Jeffries and Schumer are in charge.

 

[Gatsby]

Well, they did. The most progressive policy agenda was Obamacare, aka Romneycare, which came out of the Heritage Foundation.

: "All of my policy ideas are super popular. Trust me bro."
: "The voters only elect Heritage Foundation candidates even when they vote for Democrats."

Pick a story and stick to it. Are you the champion of super-popular ideas that the voters want, or are you the speaker of unpopular truths that the establishment doesn't want to hear? If your ideas were so popular then you wouldn't be so persistently miserable with every single election outcome of the last 30+ years.

Gatsby would be more inline with Joe Manchin, for example. That's the kind of moderation he champions. Corporate hackery, which is overwhelmingly unpopular.

I wish we had a Joe Manchin to run in every red state Senate race. Save your Bernie Bros for the deep blue seats.

 

[Phys251]

I did and do, that's why I didn't vote for Kamala.

Stopped reading right there. You lose whatever credibility you had with that oh-so-progressive decision.

And from the looks of it, I'm the only progressive on these forums who didn't vote for Kamala. The burden of proof is on you that my vote was the deciding factor, and/or that can vote-shaming is more effective than reaching out to progressives rather than Cheney / Manchin conservatives.



I will bet anything that a moderate corporate centrist is the nominee, because Dems are nothing if not predictably stupid and self-sabotaging. That's why Jeffries and Schumer are in charge.

 

[SoCal]

'Damning' New Poll Shows Price Kamala Harris Paid for Backing Israeli Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams

Vice President Kamala Harris' refusal to break with the Biden administration's support for Israel's assault on Gaza cost her millions of potential Democratic voters. Will the Democratic Party learn from this and listen to its voters who want leaders to oppose sending more weapons to Israel...

www.commondreams.org

"The top reason those non-voters cited, above the economy at 24% and immigration at 11%, was Gaza: a full 29% cited the ongoing onslaught as the top reason they didn't cast a vote in 2024," wrote Ryan Grim at Drop Site News, the first outlet to report the news.

In states that swung from Biden in 2020 to President-elect Donald Trump in 2024, 20% of non-voters said Gaza was the reason they didn't cast a ballot in November.

After replacing Biden as the nominee in July, Harris faced pressure—as the president had—to take decisive action to end U.S. support for Israel's assault on Gaza, which has now killed more than 46,000 Palestinians, the majority of whom have been civilian men, women, and children."

Well I'm sure Trump be much more in touch with the needs of Palestinians, oppose Netanyahu, demand the removal of settlers and help establish Palestine much more effectively than Harris would have. Those morons had two choices and differences between Trump and Harris were like night and day, yet they decided to help Trump get elected...

Perfect is the enemy of much better

 

[braindrain]

Well, they did. The most progressive policy agenda was Obamacare, aka Romneycare, which came out of the Heritage Foundation. Gatsby would be more inline with Joe Manchin, for example. That's the kind of moderation he champions. Corporate hackery, which is overwhelmingly unpopular.

Joe Manchin Among America’s Most Unpopular Senators

Meanwhile, fellow red-state Democrat Jon Tester of Montana is among the country's most popular senators

pro.morningconsult.com

That you don’t see how two of the most popular democrat presidents of recent times were all rather moderate demonstrates my point is just more of you buying your head in the sand and deny reality.

Why do you think the most liberal candidates can’t even win the nomination of their own party.

 

[braindrain]

Dems lost their Super Majorities (after passing Republican healthcare) in 2010. Then Obama beat Romney, a weak Republican. Then we got Trump. Then we got Biden, who promised to save us from Trump. Then we got Trump.

Why do Dems keep losing power after achieving very little (if anything), while Republicans continue to make massive gains? The pendulum is not swinging left and right. It's swinging center and far-right.

And buddy, you just accused "ANTI-DEMOCRATIC PROGS" of hurting you. Don't throw elbows unless you want a response.

It’s funny watching you admit to the evidence demonstrates my claim but still not understanding what that evidence is telling you.

Rarely have I seen someone more accurately prove the old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can make it drink then you are doing right now.

This people in this country are not far left no matter how much that hurts your feelings.

 

[Dans La Lune]

That you don’t see how two of the most popular democrat presidents of recent times were all rather moderate demonstrates my point is just more of you buying your head in the sand and deny reality.

Why do you think the most liberal candidates can’t even win the nomination of their own party.

Bernie is not a liberal, he's a progressive. And it's already been shown why he lost in 2016 and 2020. In 2020, on the verge of Bernie winning, all the corporate Dems dropped out and consolidated around Biden. If your own party is against you, you're going to have an uphill battle.

Bernie is currently the most popular senator. Why is that?

 

[Dans La Lune]

Stopped reading right there. You lose whatever credibility you had with that oh-so-progressive decision.

I'd lose all credibility if I voted for genocide as a progressive. If I just lost credibility with you, I call that a bargain.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Well I'm sure Trump be much more in touch with the needs of Palestinians, oppose Netanyahu, demand the removal of settlers and help establish Palestine much more effectively than Harris would have. Those morons had two choices and differences between Trump and Harris were like night and day, yet they decided to help Trump get elected...

Perfect is the enemy of much better

People like myself only argued that Democrats follow both international and American law. That's not asking for perfect. I blame Democrats for ceding to fascism, which always helps fascism.

 

[Dans La Lune]

: "All of my policy ideas are super popular. Trust me bro."
: "The voters only elect Heritage Foundation candidates even when they vote for Democrats."

Obama ran on hope and change and a progressive platform, won and was given TWO SUPER-MAJORITIES, and lost them after passing Republican-inspired healthcare. Why did he lose them?

Pick a story and stick to it. Are you the champion of super-popular ideas that the voters want, or are you the speaker of unpopular truths that the establishment doesn't want to hear? If your ideas were so popular then you wouldn't be so persistently miserable with every single election outcome of the last 30+ years.

Medicare For All: 70%+ popularity.
Universal Pre-K: 79% popularity.
Taxing the Rich: 70%+ popularity.
LGBTQ Rights: 70%+ popularity.
Minimum Wage Increase: 67%+ popularity.
Climate Change Mitigation: 66-80% poularity.

If you can't win on popular issues, there's a word for you: LOSER. If you know they're popular but don't campaign on them as a Democrat, there's a word for you: REPUBLICAN.

I wish we had a Joe Manchin to run in every red state Senate race. Save your Bernie Bros for the deep blue seats.

Well, if you don't give people a real choice, and push conservatives in red states, they're going to vote for the conservative candidate every time. Oh, and the Bernie-inspired Build Back Better had a 70% approval rating in West Virginia.

Loser strategy yields loser results.

 

[braindrain]

Bernie is not a liberal, he's a progressive. And it's already been shown why he lost in 2016 and 2020. In 2020, on the verge of Bernie winning, all the corporate Dems dropped out and consolidated around Biden. If your own party is against you, you're going to have an uphill battle.

Bernie is currently the most popular senator. Why is that?

Always with the excuses for why your far left wing politicians can’t win.
That’s all you ever have.

He is popular because he plays up a good little bit while getting nothing done. But yeah he is so popular he has failed every single time he ran for president.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Always with the excuses for why your far left wing politicians can’t win.
That’s all you ever have.

He is popular because he plays up a good little bit while getting nothing done. But yeah he is so popular he has failed every single time he ran for president.

He would have beaten Trump in 2016.

 

[braindrain]

He would have beaten Trump in 2016.

He couldn’t even win the nomination of his party. Keep fooling yourself.

 

[Dans La Lune]

He couldn’t even win the nomination of his party. Keep fooling yourself.

Rock, Paper, Scissors. Beating your own party is actually harder than beating the opposing party. If the Clintons are so popular, why did Hillary lose?