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Marking ‘dawn of new Middle East,’ Israel signs historic deals with UAE, Bahrain

oneworld2 said:
It can compromise and make peace with those that are not considered to be living on its territory, the greater Israel project. When it comes to the Palestinians, obviously, that doesn't apply hence the issues with them.

I disagree that the Palestinians are " all or nothing " negotiators.

The application of international law should be applied to the conflict imo and the concept of might equals right rejected. The power dynamic ,however people try to justify its inclusion, doesn't really offer a just resolution of the conflict imo.
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Of course that's not true given the offer that Israel made and got rejected time and again by the palestinians, but that's off topic so I'll leave it as is.
 
VanceMack said:
He will curry favor with the idiot left.
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If you think he will sell out on Israel to ingratiate himself with the " idiot left " ( whoever they are) you will be in for a disappointment imo. The Israel lobby in US political circles is super strong whereas the far left ( who I think you are referring to) have not much in the way of influence. His appointment of Blinkin tells you all you need to know about his concerns about the US/Israel alliance

www.middleeastmonitor.com

The king's man: Blinken's appointment reassures Israel that little will change under Biden

Right-wing Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has nothing to worry about as the man who will directly handle America's foreign policy in the Middle East is a loyal friend of Israel. Crisis ...
www.middleeastmonitor.com www.middleeastmonitor.com
 
NO1 said:
Of course that's not true given the offer that Israel made and got rejected time and again by the palestinians, but that's off topic so I'll leave it as is.
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We can, respectfully, agree to disagree
 
oneworld2 said:
If you think he will sell out on Israel to ingratiate himself with the " idiot left " ( whoever they are) you will be in for a disappointment imo. The Israel lobby in US political circles is super strong whereas the far left ( who I think you are referring to) have not much in the way of influence. His appointment of Blinkin tells you all you need to know about his concerns about the US/Israel alliance

www.middleeastmonitor.com

The king's man: Blinken's appointment reassures Israel that little will change under Biden

Right-wing Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has nothing to worry about as the man who will directly handle America's foreign policy in the Middle East is a loyal friend of Israel. Crisis ...
www.middleeastmonitor.com www.middleeastmonitor.com
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I hope Im wrong. I'll gladly admit it if I am. I doubt I am wrong. Democrats have a history of selling out Israel to radical leftists within their own party.
 
VanceMack said:
I hope Im wrong. I'll gladly admit it if I am. I doubt I am wrong. Democrats have a history of selling out Israel to radical leftists within their own party.
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I don't see how you can make that claim tbh.

The US financial, miltary and diplomatic support for Israel hasn't changed since after the 6 Day War and if anything has gotten waaaaaay stronger since then.

The Israeli leadership certainly seem happy with his choice of staffers so far
 
oneworld2 said:
I don't see how you can make that claim tbh.

The US financial, miltary and diplomatic support for Israel hasn't changed since after the 6 Day War and if anything has gotten waaaaaay stronger since then.

The Israeli leadership certainly seem happy with his choice of staffers so far
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The democrat party is leaning left. You literally have seated congresswomen that cheer for the demise of Israel. That mirrors the growing prog sentiment in this country. The democrats have always 'supported' Israel with a nod first to Palestinians.

Again...I could be wrong. I hope I am.
 
VanceMack said:
The democrat party is leaning left. You literally have seated congresswomen that cheer for the demise of Israel. That mirrors the growing prog sentiment in this country. The democrats have always 'supported' Israel with a nod first to Palestinians.

Again...I could be wrong. I hope I am.
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I think your fears are misplaced.

The nod to the Palestinians doesn't actually count for much and is probably only there to appease some Arabs from the gulf states.

You only have to look at the "aid" to Israel that pours out of the USA regardless of which stripe is in the WH. Same with the US veto at the UN
 
NO1 said:
Says who? The Palestinians made preconditions just to show up and negotiate, seems not that important. The veto of the Palestinians is over, the arab world don’t wait for them anymore.

Without watching the video I can see it from 2001, he wasn’t even prime minister at that time. Also, Palestinian rejectionism started at 48’ till now.
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So what that he wasn't PM; after his election he spent years doing everything he could to overturn what his Labour predecessor had achieved; the road to lasting PEACE. If you're too scared to watch the video it isn't my problem. Of course Palestine rejects Israel's one-sided and completely unacceptable pre-conditions. Like, for example, Israel's adamant refusal to stop incursions onto Palestinian land and building settlements illegally. Why would anyone agree to that?
Like Ben Gurion said; 'they [Palestinians] see but one thing, we have come and we have stolen their land'. And Israel has been stealing incrementally more and more for 70 years.
 
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snakestretcher said:
So what that he wasn't PM; after his election he spent years doing everything he could to overturn what his Labour predecessor had achieved; the road to lasting PEACE. If you're too scared to watch the video it isn't my problem. Of course Palestine rejects Israel's one-sided and completely unacceptable pre-conditions. Like, for example, Israel's adamant refusal to stop incursions onto Palestinian land and building settlements illegally. Why would anyone agree to that?
Like Ben Gurion said; 'they [Palestinians] see but one thing, we have come and we have stolen their land'. And Israel has been stealing incrementally more and more for 70 years.
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To quote Shlomo ben Ami, one of the chief negotiators on the Israeli side at one time, regarding the Oslo Accords, he stated that it was never in the agreement that Israel should discontinue building anymore illegal settlements.

It beggars belief but it's true and the number of illegal settlers has doubled and more since Oslo

Shlomo ben ami.........on the settlements as per the Oslo agreements

"If the Israelis, after Oslo, continued expansion of settlements, they were violating the spirit of Oslo, not the letter of Oslo. There is nothing in the Oslo agreement that says that Israelis cannot build settlements. "

taken from the link below ( worth watching )

www.democracynow.org

Fmr. Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami Debates Outspoken Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel, the Palestinians, and the Peace Process

What happens when a former Israeli Foreign Minister debates a scholar known as one of the world’s foremost critics of Israeli policy? The answer is not what you may expect. We spend the hour with Shlomo Ben Ami, author of “Scars of War, Wounds of Peace,” and Norman Finkelstein, author of “Beyond...
www.democracynow.org
 
oneworld2 said:
To quote Shlomo ben Ami, one of the chief negotiators on the Israeli side at one time, regarding the Oslo Accords, he stated that it was never in the agreement that Israel should discontinue building anymore illegal settlements.

It beggars belief but it's true and the number of illegal settlers has doubled and more since Oslo

Shlomo ben ami.........on the settlements as per the Oslo agreements

"If the Israelis, after Oslo, continued expansion of settlements, they were violating the spirit of Oslo, not the letter of Oslo. There is nothing in the Oslo agreement that says that Israelis cannot build settlements. "

taken from the link below ( worth watching )

www.democracynow.org

Fmr. Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami Debates Outspoken Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel, the Palestinians, and the Peace Process

What happens when a former Israeli Foreign Minister debates a scholar known as one of the world’s foremost critics of Israeli policy? The answer is not what you may expect. We spend the hour with Shlomo Ben Ami, author of “Scars of War, Wounds of Peace,” and Norman Finkelstein, author of “Beyond...
www.democracynow.org
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And people can't understand why the UN has passed Resolutions condemning routine Israeli violations of international law and the Geneva conventions, as long as your arm.
The irony here is that Israel, by becoming signatories to the UN Charter, agreed thereby to abide by those same laws and conventions. Maybe Israel should rescind her membership if she continues to ignore the law. I, for one, wouldn't miss them for a second-and I guarantee the UN membership would breathe a collective sigh of relief that they wouldn't have to waste time and energy on a rogue state which clearly has no intention of following the law.
The one remaining hope for Palestine's future is formal recognition of statehood. Slowly but surely that recognition will come; they have already been awarded non-member state observer status at the UN, which must seriously piss off the Israeli far right-wing. That makes me happy.
 
snakestretcher said:
And people can't understand why the UN has passed Resolutions condemning routine Israeli violations of international law and the Geneva conventions, as long as your arm.
The irony here is that Israel, by becoming signatories to the UN Charter, agreed thereby to abide by those same laws and conventions. Maybe Israel should rescind her membership if she continues to ignore the law. I, for one, wouldn't miss them for a second-and I guarantee the UN membership would breathe a collective sigh of relief that they wouldn't have to waste time and energy on a rogue state which clearly has no intention of following the law.
The one remaining hope for Palestine's future is formal recognition of statehood. Slowly but surely that recognition will come; they have already been awarded non-member state observer status at the UN, which must seriously piss off the Israeli right-wing. That makes me happy.
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On the slowness of recognition and the US veto forced inertia at the UN

The process is so slow , seeing as it has been an annexation process that used the facade of a " peace process " ( to paraphrase Norman Finkelstein ) we can wonder whether the two state solution is already effectively gone as an option and what that means to the people on both sides
 
CaughtInThe said:
I will be taking your house today. Get the hell out by 3:00 p.m..
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snakestretcher said:
It's barbaric. Jews would do well to remember their own history of forcible evictions in Europe-and worse.
www.irishtimes.com

Israeli settler group gets legal go-ahead to evict 700 Palestinians

High court rejects appeal by Silwan residents to overturn ‘freeing’ up of their home land
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
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Had the Palestinians won they would have done the same to the Jews, and in fact did when they had the chance.
 
snakestretcher said:
So what that he wasn't PM; after his election he spent years doing everything he could to overturn what his Labour predecessor had achieved; the road to lasting PEACE. If you're too scared to watch the video it isn't my problem. Of course Palestine rejects Israel's one-sided and completely unacceptable pre-conditions. Like, for example, Israel's adamant refusal to stop incursions onto Palestinian land and building settlements illegally. Why would anyone agree to that?
Like Ben Gurion said; 'they [Palestinians] see but one thing, we have come and we have stolen their land'. And Israel has been stealing incrementally more and more for 70 years.
Click to expand...
I also noted the Palestinian rejectionism started at 48' till now, they rejected historic opportunities to reach peace agreements in 2001 and 2008 when Bibi wasn't prime minister so again you can keep shouting Netanyahu this and that, but the truth is they rejected peace even when he wasn't part of the process, even when they got more than better offers. It has nothing to do with Netanyahu but Palestinian rejectionism.
As Dennis Ross, former Middle East Envoy under President Clinton said -
Palestinian political culture is rooted in a narrative of injustice; its anticolonialist bent and its deep sense of grievance treats concessions to Israel as illegitimate. Compromise is portrayed as betrayal, and negotiations — which are by definition about mutual concessions — will inevitably force any Palestinian leader to challenge his people by making a politically costly decision.
But going to the United Nations does no such thing. It puts pressure on Israel and requires nothing of the Palestinians. Resolutions are typically about what Israel must do and what Palestinians should get. If saying yes is costly and doing nothing isn’t, why should we expect the Palestinians to change course?
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NO1 said:
I also noted the Palestinian rejectionism started at 48' till now, they rejected historic opportunities to reach peace agreements in 2001 and 2008 when Bibi wasn't prime minister so again you can keep shouting Netanyahu this and that, but the truth is they rejected peace even when he wasn't part of the process, even when they got more than better offers. It has nothing to do with Netanyahu but Palestinian rejectionism.
As Dennis Ross, former Middle East Envoy under President Clinton said -
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Dennis Ross is hardly a remotely objective voice lol Just take a look at this analysis of his book Doomed to Succeed against the representations of respected scholars/commentators of the subject.


Jeffrey Rudolph said:
Accordingly, in the analysis below, I compare Ross’s views on political issues, covered in his 2015 book Doomed to Succeed, to the views of respected scholars, authors, and journalists.


The overall result is troubling. Ross consistently contextualizes issues in a misleading manner and omits salient facts in order to present Israel in a positive light.
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DENNIS ROSS: PROPAGANDIST

DENNIS ROSS: PROPAGANDIST By Jeffrey Rudolph (September 2016) Dennis Ross was the director of policy planning in the State Department under President George H. W. Bush, was a leading Middle East peace envoy under President
normanfinkelstein.com normanfinkelstein.com

You might as well have cited Bibi Netanyahu himself lol
 
Jack Hays said:
Had the Palestinians won they would have done the same to the Jews, and in fact did when they had the chance.
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You only have 2 and a 1/2 hours get the hell out of your house.
 
What needs to be understood is that the Palestinian cause, always a flag of convenience for Arab states, no longer serves those states' purposes. They are now more concerned with the threat from Iran, and on that basis seek alliance with Israel. The clock has run out on the Palestinians.
 
Jack Hays said:
I, like the Israelis, am well-protected against Palestinian agression.
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You need to be protected against me and a bunch of other Americans that are coming to take your property.
 
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