Manchin is Bad At Math

[NOVA66]

The recession was not caused by the tax cuts. That is the only thing you got right in these 2 sentences.

It is binary lol. Something either works as intended, or it doesn't.

Nope. Tax cuts have nothing to do with growth, employment etc. Increased employment is entirely fueled by increased demand for production. Tax rates are meaningless. We know empirically, because we have decades upon decades of data, that tax cuts do not magically increase economic output. All they do, every...............single.....................time..............................is reduce revenue and explode deficits.

The U.S. Treasury says.

Why does the United States owe so much debt?
Continued decreases in the amount of taxes paid by corporations and the wealthiest Americans have resulted in less money coming in. At the same time, spending continues to increase.

 

[KLATTU]

The U.S. Treasury says.

Why does the United States owe so much debt?
Continued decreases in the amount of taxes paid by corporations and the wealthiest Americans have resulted in less money coming in. At the same time, spending continues to increase.

Not accurate . Check any analysis of who pays the tax bill in this country. It’s the top tiers. So any bs about them not paying their ‘fair share’ is just that. BS

 

[rahl]

Except…..the …… bush….. tax cuts .

which reduced revenue and increased the deficit.

If you want to go with the Binary construct, ok, the bush tax cuts worked as intended.

Nope. Math doesn't care about your ideology. When you collect something at a less rate than you did before, you will for a mathematical certainty, collect less of it. It's not even remotely debatable. It's the law of mathematics.

After and inititial dip in revenue, they began to climb.

Revenue grows every single year, due to population growth and inflation, absent a recession.

The deficit shrank.

Nope, it climbed.

They produced economic growth. #checkmate

Nope. It's why revenues decreased. tax cuts do not produce economic growth. Economic growth is caused by a demand for increased production. Tax cuts are completely meaningless.

 

[NOVA66]

Not accurate . Check any analysis of who pays the tax bill in this country. It’s the top tiers. So any bs about them not paying their ‘fair share’ is just that. BS

I will take the U.S. Treasury view over yours.

 

[NOVA66]

Not accurate . Check any analysis of who pays the tax bill in this country. It’s the top tiers. So any bs about them not paying their ‘fair share’ is just that. BS

The debt has increased more after tax cuts from Reagan, Bush, and Trump because the tax cuts were added to the debt.

 

[rahl]

Not accurate . Check any analysis of who pays the tax bill in this country. It’s the top tiers.

yes, because they have all of the money. They still do not pay an amount equal to their share of the wealth.

So any bs about them not paying their ‘fair share’ is just that. BS

Reality doesn't care about your ideology. The richest 1% control over 75% of the wealth in the US. They do not pay anywhere even remotely close to their fair share of the tax burden.

 

[KLATTU]

yes, because they have all of the money. They still do not pay an amount equal to their share of the wealth.

Reality doesn't care about your ideology. The richest 1% control over 75% of the wealth in the US. They do not pay anywhere even remotely close to their fair share of the tax burden.

Why should they owe the government more just because they made more? Did they make all that money because they got more Government services?

Should you owe more on your restaurant bill than your fellow diners just because you make more money?

 

[KLATTU]

I will take the U.S. Treasury view over yours.

they agree with me.

• The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.
• The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (38.8 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.2 percent).

#FACTS

 

[jonny5]

The U.S. Treasury says.

Why does the United States owe so much debt?
Continued decreases in the amount of taxes paid by corporations and the wealthiest Americans have resulted in less money coming in. At the same time, spending continues to increase.

But there is no continued decrease in the amount of taxes paid by the wealthiest Americans. Both hit record highs in 2021.

371bn from corporates taxes, top 1% paying more than ever.



CBO says US owes so much debt because of spending driven by entitlements.

Rising interest costs and growth in spending on the major health care programs and Social Security—driven by the aging of the population and growth in health care costs per person—boost federal outlays significantly over the 2025–2052 period.

 

[bubbabgone]

not relevant to anything being discussed.

Ah, if you think that then it confirms your analysis is superficial.
Which is what someone has been trying to tell you and you have been resisting.

 

[bubbabgone]

If that taxpayer was one of the 1% it would go into hedge funds that bid up the prices of commodities we all use.

Are those commodities paid for and used?

 

[rahl]

Why should they owe the government more just because they made more?

Uh, because they have most of the money.

Did they make all that money because they got more Government services?

yes

Should you owe more on your restaurant bill than your fellow diners just because you make more money?

did I receive extra services, as the wealthy do?

 

[rahl]

Ah, if you think that then it confirms your analysis is superficial.

no, just accurate. your comment had no relevance to anything being discussed.

Which is what someone has been trying to tell you and you have been resisting.

trying to tell me something that is not relevant what is being discussed, is rather silly.

 

[bubbabgone]

no, just accurate. your comment had no relevance to anything being discussed.

trying to tell me something that is not relevant what is being discussed, is rather silly.

I can see how someone who has been trying (I can only hope) and failing to understand what @longview has been telling you might think it's not relevant.
I'll attribute it to the superficial analysis I've seen on display and let it go at that.

 

[KLATTU]

Uh, because they have most of the money.

IF the Dems were honest, that would be their justification for taxing the rich, not the 'fair share' , class warrior, BS.
They have the money, we nned the money. PEriod.

 

[KLATTU]

yes

did I receive extra services, as the wealthy do?

Not supportable by credible evidence. Sorry.

 

[rahl]

I can see how someone who has been trying (I can only hope) and failing to understand what @longview has been telling you might think it's not relevant.

I have refuted what longview has been trying to say.

I'll attribute it to the superficial analysis I've seen on display and let it go at that.

let me know when you have anything relevant to the topic to post.

 

[rahl]

IF the Dems were honest, that would be their justification for taxing the rich, not the 'fair share' , class warrior, BS.

why would you not tax the people who have the most money?

They have the money, we nned the money. PEriod.

uh, that's what they are saying.

 

[rahl]

Not supportable by credible evidence. Sorry.

 

[mrjurrs]

Chuck Schumer and Joe Manchin have a deal to raise taxes, cut the deficit, spend money on climate change

The slimmed-down version of Build Back Better reportedly hikes taxes by over $730 billion, with $300 billion of that money to e used for reducing the federal budget deficit.

reason.com

For evidence, he thinks raising taxes and spending 370bn on climate change will pay off 30 trillion in debt. Even if they got 700bn in revenue, 300bn after spending wouldnt do much to the trillion dollar deficit which doubles in the next 10 years under current law. He also wants to spend EVEN more on healthcare via subsidies. And all this during recession and inflation with ever shrinking labor force. Its insanity.

He may be bad at math, but you are worse at reading. Find anything anywhere that claims this bill (soon to be law) claims it will pay off the deficit.

 

[bubbabgone]

I have refuted what longview has been trying to say.

let me know when you have anything relevant to the topic to post.

"Refute" means to "disprove".
"Deny" is what you've been doing.

 

[rahl]

"Refute" means to "disprove".

correct.

"Deny" is what you've been doing.

nope. I've disproven his position with the laws of mathematics, and 7 decades worth of GDP and treasury data.

 

[KLATTU]

why would you not tax the people who have the most money?

uh, that's what they are saying.

We agree on point one.
No that is absolutely NOT what Dems say. They say people who make more money aren't paying some class warrior myth called 'fair share'.

 

[rahl]

We agree on point one.
No that is absolutely NOT what Dems say.

it's specifically what they say.

They say people who make more money aren't paying some class warrior myth called 'fair share'.

fair share is exactly what paying more because you have all the wealth means lol

 

[jonny5]

No surprise, the House barely passed the bill with zero bipartisan support, 220-207. And they had to use reconciliation to avoid the Senates 60 vote requirement. Good news is, they just saved the world from climate change. You just have to buy a EV.